[Z06] Doing brakes this weekend
02-04-2011, 12:28 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Doing brakes this weekend
Hello,
Do you have to undo the battery to put the new brake pads? Also, is there a link on how to change the brake lines to stainless steel and how to flush the brake fluid? Thanks, I really appreciate it.
Do you have to undo the battery to put the new brake pads? Also, is there a link on how to change the brake lines to stainless steel and how to flush the brake fluid? Thanks, I really appreciate it.
02-04-2011, 12:31 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
02-04-2011, 02:08 AM
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St. Jude Donor '09
San
02-04-2011, 02:16 AM
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No battery disconnect required.
SS line install is pretty easy, but due to the GM robotic brake line install (over torque) some people have had problems getting the new ss line started without cross threading. I had this problem with my 05 C6. Some ss kits are better than others also. I have used a few, and like Stoptech the best. Be careful when tightening the banjo bolts on the caliper. Being hollow, it is easy to over torque and break them off. Make sure that you use the new supplied copper crush washers on each side of the banjo bolt. Be careful about the alignment of the lines themselves - they should not be in contact or rub any suspension components (A arm, shock, etc). The inboard connection is the difficult one. Do it first so that you can get it nice and straight and not get the threads crossed. Most leaks occur at the inboard connection, it needs to be tight.
One more thought on ss brake lines - they really don't do much. I know people say that you get a firmer pedal, but I couldn't tell any difference on either my C6 or Z06. However, I will probably install a set on my next car too. Just don't expect any real difference. If you are changing your pads, that is where most of the difference in feel comes from. Bottom line - the OEM rubber Z06 brake lines are pretty darn good.
Below is some info that I posted a while back. Procedures work for both padlets and single pads:
---------------------------
There are two ways to replace Z06 OEM caliper padlets. One is to remove the caliper and the other is to remove the padlet locater pins and pull the padlet out of the top of the caliper.
I've changed pads both ways. If you go with single piece pads instead of padlets, you will have to remove the rotor.
To remove the padlets without removing the caliper, you have to take out at least three of the four pins (per side) on the front and two of the three pins on the rear. My 08 Z06 has Torx head pins (#45 or (#46 if you can find one for a tighter fit) Torx driver). Somewhere GM went from hex to Torx. I think it was in 2007. Some people had problems breaking allen wrenches on the hex pins. The Torx seem better. All new OEM pads come with new Torx pins.
I use a #45 Torx socket on a 3/8" drive ratchet. If the pins have been in for a long time they can be difficult to remove. Once they break free, they turn very easily - so watch your knuckles :-) I make sure that I hold the Torx in all the way and push hard in on the pin as I break the pin free. The same would go for the hex head pins.
Once the pins are out, the padlet can be pulled up with a pair of pliers (they have a little tab on the top). I sometimes have to use a broad screwdriver to break the padlet free of the piston (does not take too much pressure - just a bit of a twist on the screwdriver). Be careful about the caliper paint.
There are two ways to allow the brake fluid to be pushed back when you push the pucks in... (1) is to open the master cylinder cap and allow the fluid to push up there (make sure to remove a little fluid if it is full at the start) or (2) is to crack the bleeder nipple at the caliper as you push the puck back. The second way is better - it gets rid of the nasty fluid at the caliper instead of pushing it into the brake lines. My friend does his this way. I usually just push the calipers in and then do a quick pressure bleed (I use a Motive pressure bleeder - works great - about $50) at each wheel as I go.
I've used several items to push the pucks in - the rubber coated handle end of a pair of Craftsman pliers (slip joint style) worked pretty good. The biggest problem is that as you push on in, the other two want to push out. I found that putting in the new padlets as I went along worked - that is, pull the thee old padlets, push the lowest puck back in, insert the new padlet, then push the next puck in, insert the second new padlet, and finally do the third. Put one locater pin in after each padlet install. They should go in easily (I use a VERY small amount of anti-seize on the pin threads (I use hi-temp LocTite Copper anti-seize)). No anti-seize is better than the wrong kind or too much. Be very careful - it is easy to cross thread of try to force the pin in with the padlet not aligned - this can bend the pin. If you are using new GM OEM pads, they will come with new pins. You can use them or not. The pins are only torqued to 27 ft/lbs (I think - I will have to check to be sure). It is not a real high value.
If you are using GM OEM replacement padlets, there will be four with medal pad wear indicator tabs. These should go on the top of the front brakes, and the bottom of the rears (trailing edges) - check the old ones as you remove them for reference.
Most aftermarket pads or padlets do not have wear indicator tabs.
Other than the tabs, all of the padlets, all 20, front and rear are the same and interchangeable.
The other way to change padlets (and the way you have to change one piece pads or if you are replacing rotors) is to remove the caliper. There are two large bolts in the back side of the caliper that holds them on. Just remove both. Be careful not to let the caliper fall or be held up by the flex line. I use a piece of coat hanger to hold it up while working on it.
Once the caliper is off, you can pop all the padlets off (no need to remove the locater pins). Keep the anti-rattle clip/spring in place. Push the pucks in (I've found that three mid size vise-grip bar clamps (the ones that you just squeeze to tighten and have nice soft yellow pads on the jaw parts - work great). I can send you a picture later if you are not familiar. These might even work with the caliper in-place, but I haven't tried them that way yet. Now that you have the padlets out, three of the pucks pushed back in, just load the new padlets or pad. Make sure that the padlet metal tab is pointing out away from the center of the hub and that the friction material is facing in (sounds kind of dumb, but it is possible to install the padlets upside down or wrong side in).
Now do the other side of the caliper the same way. Slide the loaded caliper back over the rotor (hopefully you've pushed the pucks back in far enough) and re-install the caliper bolts. Can't remember the torque - pretty high, 129 ft/lbs. I use a little blue LockTite on the threads and tighten the bolts firmly with a 1/2" ratchet. There is not too much room to get a long handle ratchet under the car when it is on jacks, but it is doable - and it is important to use a torque wrench.
Same procedure for all four wheels.
If the rotor retaining clips are still on your car - (little thin star washers over one or two studs on each wheel) remove them and discard. They only can cause problems (the service manual also says to remove and discard). They can keep the wheel from mating fully to the hub (esp with aftermarket wheels) and cause a vibration at speed,
Put your wheels back on and torque the bolts to 100 ft/lb - this torque value is important - otherwise it is easy to warp a rotor when hot.
One last thing - be careful when you move the car - you will need to pump the brakes a few times to keep the pedal from going to the floor (also don't forget to top off the master cylinder (if needed) and replace the cap). Once I backed out of the driveway and had no brakes until I pumped them three or four times - got my attention. E-brake worked.
I started using the pin removal method and am now using the caliper removal method. Both work. I think the calipers removal is a little easer and faster for me.
Don't forget to bed your new pads (follow the manufacture's guidelines).
Of you are going from one brand of pads to another, you may have to clean/sand/resurface the rotor to eliminate squealing. If you are using new rotors, clean them well (hot soapy water) before install to remove the anti-rust coating.
If you haven't worked on brakes much, you may want to find someone in the local Vette club to come over and give you a hand. Brakes are really very simple to work on, but you want them to work!
Make sure that you properly lift and support your car while you work under it (you do know about jacking points and jacking pucks for the C6/Z06 right?).
Let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers - Jim
SS line install is pretty easy, but due to the GM robotic brake line install (over torque) some people have had problems getting the new ss line started without cross threading. I had this problem with my 05 C6. Some ss kits are better than others also. I have used a few, and like Stoptech the best. Be careful when tightening the banjo bolts on the caliper. Being hollow, it is easy to over torque and break them off. Make sure that you use the new supplied copper crush washers on each side of the banjo bolt. Be careful about the alignment of the lines themselves - they should not be in contact or rub any suspension components (A arm, shock, etc). The inboard connection is the difficult one. Do it first so that you can get it nice and straight and not get the threads crossed. Most leaks occur at the inboard connection, it needs to be tight.
One more thought on ss brake lines - they really don't do much. I know people say that you get a firmer pedal, but I couldn't tell any difference on either my C6 or Z06. However, I will probably install a set on my next car too. Just don't expect any real difference. If you are changing your pads, that is where most of the difference in feel comes from. Bottom line - the OEM rubber Z06 brake lines are pretty darn good.
Below is some info that I posted a while back. Procedures work for both padlets and single pads:
---------------------------
There are two ways to replace Z06 OEM caliper padlets. One is to remove the caliper and the other is to remove the padlet locater pins and pull the padlet out of the top of the caliper.
I've changed pads both ways. If you go with single piece pads instead of padlets, you will have to remove the rotor.
To remove the padlets without removing the caliper, you have to take out at least three of the four pins (per side) on the front and two of the three pins on the rear. My 08 Z06 has Torx head pins (#45 or (#46 if you can find one for a tighter fit) Torx driver). Somewhere GM went from hex to Torx. I think it was in 2007. Some people had problems breaking allen wrenches on the hex pins. The Torx seem better. All new OEM pads come with new Torx pins.
I use a #45 Torx socket on a 3/8" drive ratchet. If the pins have been in for a long time they can be difficult to remove. Once they break free, they turn very easily - so watch your knuckles :-) I make sure that I hold the Torx in all the way and push hard in on the pin as I break the pin free. The same would go for the hex head pins.
Once the pins are out, the padlet can be pulled up with a pair of pliers (they have a little tab on the top). I sometimes have to use a broad screwdriver to break the padlet free of the piston (does not take too much pressure - just a bit of a twist on the screwdriver). Be careful about the caliper paint.
There are two ways to allow the brake fluid to be pushed back when you push the pucks in... (1) is to open the master cylinder cap and allow the fluid to push up there (make sure to remove a little fluid if it is full at the start) or (2) is to crack the bleeder nipple at the caliper as you push the puck back. The second way is better - it gets rid of the nasty fluid at the caliper instead of pushing it into the brake lines. My friend does his this way. I usually just push the calipers in and then do a quick pressure bleed (I use a Motive pressure bleeder - works great - about $50) at each wheel as I go.
I've used several items to push the pucks in - the rubber coated handle end of a pair of Craftsman pliers (slip joint style) worked pretty good. The biggest problem is that as you push on in, the other two want to push out. I found that putting in the new padlets as I went along worked - that is, pull the thee old padlets, push the lowest puck back in, insert the new padlet, then push the next puck in, insert the second new padlet, and finally do the third. Put one locater pin in after each padlet install. They should go in easily (I use a VERY small amount of anti-seize on the pin threads (I use hi-temp LocTite Copper anti-seize)). No anti-seize is better than the wrong kind or too much. Be very careful - it is easy to cross thread of try to force the pin in with the padlet not aligned - this can bend the pin. If you are using new GM OEM pads, they will come with new pins. You can use them or not. The pins are only torqued to 27 ft/lbs (I think - I will have to check to be sure). It is not a real high value.
If you are using GM OEM replacement padlets, there will be four with medal pad wear indicator tabs. These should go on the top of the front brakes, and the bottom of the rears (trailing edges) - check the old ones as you remove them for reference.
Most aftermarket pads or padlets do not have wear indicator tabs.
Other than the tabs, all of the padlets, all 20, front and rear are the same and interchangeable.
The other way to change padlets (and the way you have to change one piece pads or if you are replacing rotors) is to remove the caliper. There are two large bolts in the back side of the caliper that holds them on. Just remove both. Be careful not to let the caliper fall or be held up by the flex line. I use a piece of coat hanger to hold it up while working on it.
Once the caliper is off, you can pop all the padlets off (no need to remove the locater pins). Keep the anti-rattle clip/spring in place. Push the pucks in (I've found that three mid size vise-grip bar clamps (the ones that you just squeeze to tighten and have nice soft yellow pads on the jaw parts - work great). I can send you a picture later if you are not familiar. These might even work with the caliper in-place, but I haven't tried them that way yet. Now that you have the padlets out, three of the pucks pushed back in, just load the new padlets or pad. Make sure that the padlet metal tab is pointing out away from the center of the hub and that the friction material is facing in (sounds kind of dumb, but it is possible to install the padlets upside down or wrong side in).
Now do the other side of the caliper the same way. Slide the loaded caliper back over the rotor (hopefully you've pushed the pucks back in far enough) and re-install the caliper bolts. Can't remember the torque - pretty high, 129 ft/lbs. I use a little blue LockTite on the threads and tighten the bolts firmly with a 1/2" ratchet. There is not too much room to get a long handle ratchet under the car when it is on jacks, but it is doable - and it is important to use a torque wrench.
Same procedure for all four wheels.
If the rotor retaining clips are still on your car - (little thin star washers over one or two studs on each wheel) remove them and discard. They only can cause problems (the service manual also says to remove and discard). They can keep the wheel from mating fully to the hub (esp with aftermarket wheels) and cause a vibration at speed,
Put your wheels back on and torque the bolts to 100 ft/lb - this torque value is important - otherwise it is easy to warp a rotor when hot.
One last thing - be careful when you move the car - you will need to pump the brakes a few times to keep the pedal from going to the floor (also don't forget to top off the master cylinder (if needed) and replace the cap). Once I backed out of the driveway and had no brakes until I pumped them three or four times - got my attention. E-brake worked.
I started using the pin removal method and am now using the caliper removal method. Both work. I think the calipers removal is a little easer and faster for me.
Don't forget to bed your new pads (follow the manufacture's guidelines).
Of you are going from one brand of pads to another, you may have to clean/sand/resurface the rotor to eliminate squealing. If you are using new rotors, clean them well (hot soapy water) before install to remove the anti-rust coating.
If you haven't worked on brakes much, you may want to find someone in the local Vette club to come over and give you a hand. Brakes are really very simple to work on, but you want them to work!
Make sure that you properly lift and support your car while you work under it (you do know about jacking points and jacking pucks for the C6/Z06 right?).
Let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers - Jim
Last edited by Carnac; 02-04-2011 at 02:30 AM.
02-04-2011, 02:47 AM
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St. Jude Donor '09
Good post by Carnac. This thread might be of use to you as well.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...formation.html
San
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...formation.html
San
02-04-2011, 02:58 AM
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Good post by Carnac. This thread might be of use to you as well.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...formation.html
San
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sout...formation.html
San
Jim
02-04-2011, 06:59 PM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
I aggree with Carnac's post...but I have had zero luck pulling the pins out of the calipers if they have any amount of time on them at all. Much easier in my eyes to pull the two bolts holding the caliper to the upright and put those back in.
Watch those lines too...some can be a pain to get started if GM over tightened the lines from the factory.
Watch those lines too...some can be a pain to get started if GM over tightened the lines from the factory.
02-04-2011, 07:34 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hello Anthony,
I saw your 2 piece rotors, how much are they going for? Do you have them drilled instead of slotted, and how about the rear ones?
Thanks
I saw your 2 piece rotors, how much are they going for? Do you have them drilled instead of slotted, and how about the rear ones?
Thanks
02-04-2011, 07:59 PM
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St. Jude Donor '09
San
02-04-2011, 09:56 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
RacingBrake Makes a replacement that uses a 10mm bolt head in leu of the torx/hex socket. Works well but still plan on using antisiese to help with sticking for your next change out.
If your changing pads for track to street this may be a better way, if your only changing them once every 20k then don't bother and just pull the rotor.
See below for link
http://http://www.racingbrake.com/Pad_Pin_Bolt_s/3277.htm
Last edited by Gman57; 02-04-2011 at 10:12 PM.
02-05-2011, 09:45 AM
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Working on the rears right now, no official release date but that is next in line.
04-01-2011, 05:29 PM
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21mm
Bill
Bill
04-02-2011, 12:00 AM
#17
Melting Slicks
One of our Canadian members is going through Hell with stainless lines.
You might try a search on the same to be sure you don't have the same brand.
Good luck, 2k
04-02-2011, 05:46 PM
#18
Racer
Installed the Hawk Performance Ceramics today. The caliper bolts were a struggle but managed to get them off and back on. Thanks to Carnac for the great instruction post.
04-02-2011, 05:56 PM
#19
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You are welcome.
I always feel good when I get something like brake pads changed. I know that I do a better job than almost any service department (because I can take my time and I care about my car).
The caliper bolts are on pretty tight (129 ft/lb) and it is tough to get leverage. I use an 18" breaker bar and have the car jacked up a couple of inches higher than needed to just remove the wheel.
Enjoy your new brakes. Don't forget to bed them per manufactures instructions...
Jim
I always feel good when I get something like brake pads changed. I know that I do a better job than almost any service department (because I can take my time and I care about my car).
The caliper bolts are on pretty tight (129 ft/lb) and it is tough to get leverage. I use an 18" breaker bar and have the car jacked up a couple of inches higher than needed to just remove the wheel.
Enjoy your new brakes. Don't forget to bed them per manufactures instructions...
Jim
04-02-2011, 06:14 PM
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Did my rear brakes today, I had trouble removing the rotor after it was broken free, it felt like I was pulling on the parking brake(it was off), is this normal? I took a pic of it after it was off.
