[Z06] C-6 Z06 Blown engine not warranted by GM
12-15-2008, 10:52 PM
#101
Melting Slicks
From what I have read, most national insurance carriers will avoid you like the plague if you mention HPDE coverage. Have seen two cases so far of people being dropped merely for asking if they are covered. In the UK where trackdays have long been popular, you can usually find supplemental insurance. Not sure if they will cover blown engines like this; they might depending on your deductible. There is one such company in the States that offers supplemental trackday coverage (again, not sure about coverage of mechanical failures due to manufacturing defect):
http://www.justracing.com/features/2...rack_insurance
http://www.justracing.com/features/2...rack_insurance
to be clear i was not suggesting that regular car insurance would pay for a motor that blew on a HPDE. I've never known regular insurance to pay for operational or maintenance issues.
12-16-2008, 12:09 AM
#102
Melting Slicks
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my point is, on review i do think i was justified given what was posted.
but still, i apologize if you thought i was insulting you.
12-16-2008, 12:09 AM
#103
Melting Slicks
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http://www.fordracingparts.com/announcements/news47.asp
Well, my point was that Ford offers warranted upgrades assuming you have the parts installed by Ford.
Well, my point was that Ford offers warranted upgrades assuming you have the parts installed by Ford.
but that's not the same as a track usage warranty.
12-16-2008, 01:31 PM
#104
The problem here, is where & how GM chooses to "move the line" between normal use & abuse. A guy that has a part or assembly defect inside his engine from the day it was built shouldn't be punished when it finally lets go from him attending a driving school, that GM themselves advises owners should attend.
If GM continues in these tactics of denying repairs that should be covered (which do seem to vary from dealer to dealer) I will never buy another one of their products.
12-16-2008, 02:31 PM
#105
Melting Slicks
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GM came out with a service bulletin specifically covering the ZR1, but what is interesting is how they work it in with what they claim is existing GM policy:
"General Motors designed and produced the ZR1 be driven on the roads. While the car is capable of awesome displays of power and speed it was not designed to be "raced". All of the restrictions that are currently in place for all of GM’s products are in place on the ZR1 as well. There are several notations in the warranty booklets that explain that GM may deny warranty coverage if the vehicle or part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper or insufficient maintenance or modifications not approved by GM. This includes common "upgrades" customers may make such as wheels, tires, suspension, brakes, air induction and engine calibrations. Please ensure this is covered with the owner when the vehicle is delivered. The ZR1 will perform well in a track environment; however, it was not designed, built or sold as a "track car." If an owner elects to use the car in such a manner, it is outside the intent of the warranty as supplied by General Motors and any damage as a result may not be covered by the GM warranty. Explaining this to a customer before the car is sold may prevent misunderstandings later."
In any event, how they can know that the blown engine was "a result" of an arguable racing activity is difficult to fathom if they haven't taken the engine apart to see why it failed.
"General Motors designed and produced the ZR1 be driven on the roads. While the car is capable of awesome displays of power and speed it was not designed to be "raced". All of the restrictions that are currently in place for all of GM’s products are in place on the ZR1 as well. There are several notations in the warranty booklets that explain that GM may deny warranty coverage if the vehicle or part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper or insufficient maintenance or modifications not approved by GM. This includes common "upgrades" customers may make such as wheels, tires, suspension, brakes, air induction and engine calibrations. Please ensure this is covered with the owner when the vehicle is delivered. The ZR1 will perform well in a track environment; however, it was not designed, built or sold as a "track car." If an owner elects to use the car in such a manner, it is outside the intent of the warranty as supplied by General Motors and any damage as a result may not be covered by the GM warranty. Explaining this to a customer before the car is sold may prevent misunderstandings later."
In any event, how they can know that the blown engine was "a result" of an arguable racing activity is difficult to fathom if they haven't taken the engine apart to see why it failed.
GM is really getting restrictive with the warranty for the ZR1.Allan, any new service bulletins regarding Warranty Coverage on the C6 Z06 ?
If memory serves... I think GM provided information on the video saying the Z06 was suitable for track usage, such as D E Events.
My 01 included a video showing track alignment info. That info was no longer included on the CD's for the 04 and the 07 Z06's...
But I think I recall Chevy's engineering saying the Z06 was track capable. This would NOT imply racing being covered.
Last edited by trumper Z06; 12-16-2008 at 02:34 PM.
12-16-2008, 06:19 PM
#106
Le Mans Master
12-16-2008, 06:26 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
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Mod's,would you please move the ZR1 warranty bulletin info over to a new thread ?
This latest GM data, with the wording trying to tie all models together, could be a major concern. This seems to be a substancial change in GM's policy. It even ventures into areas that could be considered "Safety Issues".
Thanks,
Trumper
Last edited by trumper Z06; 12-16-2008 at 06:44 PM.
12-16-2008, 06:49 PM
#108
Instructor
I know this isnt always the case. There is a guy on another forum who has a black 06 Z and his blew up on the track. He wasnt even at a training event, he was running hot laps on a n open track day. The dealer picked it up and replaced his engine free of charge.
12-16-2008, 07:03 PM
#109
Le Mans Master
12-16-2008, 07:04 PM
#110
Le Mans Master
How long ago was this? Did he have non-OEM tires, brakes or other upgrades when it arrived at the dealer?
12-16-2008, 07:58 PM
#111
Le Mans Master
Just for the record My engine blew while on track at a performance driving school and our friends at GM WILL NOT WARRANTY THE ENGINE REPLACEMENT. The warranty language states that they will not cover damage caused while racing or competetive driving. I was not involved in either situation. I was enrolled in a performance driving school that does not teach racing or allow any competition between students. GM refused to review my class enrollment documents, would not inspect my engine or go through its computer info to even find out why or what caused the engine failed. Many dealers told me that I would have been better off if I had lied add told them it happened on the highway. DO NOT TELL GM YOU WERE EVER ON A TRACK! good luck to all others that enjoy track time with their Z's. I understand that they are changing the dry sump to a larger capacity tank for the 09's. Im now considering a Lingenfelter built engine for my GM BLACKBALLED Z06.
12-16-2008, 08:08 PM
#112
Race Director
A couple thoughts.
IF they go into Chapter 11, bankruptcy can void ANY debts, possibly putting warranty's jeopardy. It won't matter anyway, as Chapter 11 will be followed within a few years by Chapter 7, assuming they ever come out of Chapter 11 in the first place. The only people protected in Chapter 11 are employees and lawyers! (I've been through several lawsuites of former customers......)
I know of several DE Z06's that have had engines replaced under warranty. I think that with the right legal pressure, a truly stock engine (mechanical and tune) will certainly be covered when push comes to shove. HOWEVER, if our engine goes boom, I will bring it home and make it 100% OEM before it ever goes into the dealer. It isn't worth risking the headaches of arguing over what is "competitive" vs "drivers ed" when simply cleaning thoroughly and re-installing any non-OEM components takes only a few hours.
The guys that designed these cars have been bringing them to the NCM events for the past 3 years, and they certainly expect them to withstand track use. BMW and Porsche also cover track usage in most cases (BMW will even cover wear items since it is included with purchase). However, the service side certainly has their own agenda, and it's easy enough to hide the evidence just in case.
IF they go into Chapter 11, bankruptcy can void ANY debts, possibly putting warranty's jeopardy. It won't matter anyway, as Chapter 11 will be followed within a few years by Chapter 7, assuming they ever come out of Chapter 11 in the first place. The only people protected in Chapter 11 are employees and lawyers! (I've been through several lawsuites of former customers......)
I know of several DE Z06's that have had engines replaced under warranty. I think that with the right legal pressure, a truly stock engine (mechanical and tune) will certainly be covered when push comes to shove. HOWEVER, if our engine goes boom, I will bring it home and make it 100% OEM before it ever goes into the dealer. It isn't worth risking the headaches of arguing over what is "competitive" vs "drivers ed" when simply cleaning thoroughly and re-installing any non-OEM components takes only a few hours.
The guys that designed these cars have been bringing them to the NCM events for the past 3 years, and they certainly expect them to withstand track use. BMW and Porsche also cover track usage in most cases (BMW will even cover wear items since it is included with purchase). However, the service side certainly has their own agenda, and it's easy enough to hide the evidence just in case.
12-16-2008, 08:12 PM
#113
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St. Jude Donor '08
RICH
12-16-2008, 08:44 PM
#114
Melting Slicks
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A couple thoughts.
IF they go into Chapter 11, bankruptcy can void ANY debts, possibly putting warranty's jeopardy.
......
The guys that designed these cars have been bringing them to the NCM events for the past 3 years, and they certainly expect them to withstand track use. BMW and Porsche also cover track usage in most cases (BMW will even cover wear items since it is included with purchase). However, the service side certainly has their own agenda, and it's easy enough to hide the evidence just in case.
IF they go into Chapter 11, bankruptcy can void ANY debts, possibly putting warranty's jeopardy.
......
The guys that designed these cars have been bringing them to the NCM events for the past 3 years, and they certainly expect them to withstand track use. BMW and Porsche also cover track usage in most cases (BMW will even cover wear items since it is included with purchase). However, the service side certainly has their own agenda, and it's easy enough to hide the evidence just in case.
David, I shortened this a bit for clarity.
If GM goes into a pre-planed bankrupcy... I think Warranty Coverage will stay in effect. Otherwise GM's likely to find their customers afraid to buy their products.
GM really raised the bar for the Corvette with their Z06's. and earned World Wide respect. David Hill was the Chief Corvette Engineer at that time and said... "The Z06 is for the Hard Core Enthusiast" when the C5 Z06 was introduced.
I agree, the GM guys who I met over the past three years, while also attending the NCM events would encourage warranty support... if there are NO engine/powertrain mods. Those are the "Rules" that were in effect when I purchased my first 2001 Z06, my 04 Z06, and my 07 Z06.
.
This ZR1 bulletin seems to be "Changing the Rules".
I'm very concerned with the new policy....
adding safety equipment and possibly voiding the warranty.
IMO... Additional comments should be be off board. PM's may not be entirely "confidential".
Cya @ the NCM/VIR meet !!!
Trumper
12-16-2008, 08:46 PM
#115
Cruising
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12-17-2008, 12:14 PM
#116
Heel & Toe
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Like I said before GM is sounding more like Nissan on this one. Remember the guy with the blown Transmission with his GT-R and they wouldn't even look into what caused the problem. Could have been just a bad part. Just denied him the warranty. Now this Z06 engine, same situation with the same results. That is what ticks me off is go in there and find out what caused the freakin problem!
This is great news now I have two cars to worry about.
The one saving grace is thank God I have two GREAT dealers that are mod friendly that would stand by me if anything goes wrong....Nothing big so far but little issues have been no problem. They have been covered by the warranty so far.
The real test is in a case like this one but to be safe I'd bring my Z06 back to stock and clear the black box in my GT-R before bringing it in for anything of this magnitude.
Like I said good luck with GM.
This is great news now I have two cars to worry about.
The one saving grace is thank God I have two GREAT dealers that are mod friendly that would stand by me if anything goes wrong....Nothing big so far but little issues have been no problem. They have been covered by the warranty so far.
The real test is in a case like this one but to be safe I'd bring my Z06 back to stock and clear the black box in my GT-R before bringing it in for anything of this magnitude.
Like I said good luck with GM.
Actually the guys with the problem GT-R trannies all have done 40+ LC drag starts with the transmission which was implicitly stated in their contract would void their warranties. Nissan read the black box and confirmed they had done this, and one idiot had not even broken in his car yet before doing the 40 LC starts. There is a reason Ferrari, BMW and others delete LC features for Americans....because we are stupid!
Running your Z06 at a driving school and blowing the motor? That is an unacceptable failure to start with, let alone being denied a warranty claim. Sounds like a major design fault and should be an immediate recall to fix if guys cannot get around a track day with losing the motor. Good luck to the OP and I hope you get your car back up and running shortly! It sounds like GM needs to redesign the oil sump and retro fit a kit for current owners.
12-17-2008, 09:26 PM
#118
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I know this is my first post and I've followed a link from another forum. but recently I've been taking an interest in finding a used Z06 or ls3 motor and any and all info on this motor is great to find. but back to topic.
I highlighted a couple things that indicate you had been abusing/racing your car. But I have a couple questions for the OP. what kind of HPDE were you involved in? if it was for nasa. . .that would explain the red tow ring. which you have to attend an HPDE to even qualify to race on whatever track with nasa. That would indicate you had either raced or planned to race your car. I'm sorry but I'm siding with GM on this one.
Yes the Z06 is a track prepped car. but like anything else you abuse it enough it will break. and like the OP I would sure try to get them to pay for a new motor but if they denied me I'd move on.
Sorta the same situation as u with a blown engine. I have a 98 z28 camaro. I bought a warranty when I bought it. and low and behold I blew the engine one night coming home. I had not been to the track in almost a week. but the warranty was denied because I had been racing it. Doesn't matter when I was racing it just mattered that I had.
believe me I feel for you. I've had my car out of commission since last march. but oh well. I say keep trying. but don't expect them to pay for it. that tow ring and rubber indicate racing it. just going to be a hard sell.
As for mods to my a with the blown engine here's the list the GM regional rep noted and did not approve of: 1pair of carvaggio leather sport racing seats, restraints bolted to base of seats, rubber build-up on tires and found inside wheelwells, red tow ring bolted to rear of car, there are no mods to the engine and the tires were stock runflats. None of this contributed to a total engine failure
Yes the Z06 is a track prepped car. but like anything else you abuse it enough it will break. and like the OP I would sure try to get them to pay for a new motor but if they denied me I'd move on.
Sorta the same situation as u with a blown engine. I have a 98 z28 camaro. I bought a warranty when I bought it. and low and behold I blew the engine one night coming home. I had not been to the track in almost a week. but the warranty was denied because I had been racing it. Doesn't matter when I was racing it just mattered that I had.
believe me I feel for you. I've had my car out of commission since last march. but oh well. I say keep trying. but don't expect them to pay for it. that tow ring and rubber indicate racing it. just going to be a hard sell.
12-17-2008, 11:06 PM
#120
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It sounds like GM needs to redesign the oil sump and retro fit a kit for current owners.[/QUOTE]
The reality is that GM has no $, and does not care once the car is sold. If you run your car hard, do your own upgrade. GM will not.
The reality is that GM has no $, and does not care once the car is sold. If you run your car hard, do your own upgrade. GM will not.
Last edited by KRAYZ308; 12-17-2008 at 11:16 PM. Reason: grammer error