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Old 10-26-2008, 11:33 PM   #1
ForcedVette
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Default 21 Century Muscle Car... A perfect Day...

On Saturday I drove my '08 Z with 400+ miles to 21 Century Muscle Car in Carrollton TX. (North Dallas area). I had the standard basic mods put on, Killer bee/Bee Hive, cold air mod, thermostat and tune. Being a Saturday and not wanting to keep the guys past 1pm (open until 1pm on Saturdays) I passed on the base dyno pull and had the bolt on’s put on first. I was impressed that they drained my entire coolant system to avoid a mess down the front of the block. Then replaced the coolant with new Dex-Cool and NOT just recycling the old stuff from the catch bucket. They took extra care of prepping the fenders before putting down the fender guards. After the job was complete they quick detailed the entire nose of the car. The attention to detail was nothing short of “spot on”. The dyno results were as follows - No tune - but with the 160-deg t-stat, Killer bee/bee hive CAI the car made 459.5/438 to the tire with an a/f of 10 and 19 deg of timing (I believe the CAI pushed the number higher and think I probably would have been in the 445-450/425-430 rwhp/rwtq range). On the 3rd pull with an a/f of 12.8 and 25 deg of timing we saw 478/449 . I asked them to stop there for now. I was not going for the "ragged edge" and was satisfied, they agreed.
I want to thank John Page for all his help, time spend on the phone, not trying to over sell once he understood my plan of action, knowledge base and accommodations. Also a special thanks to Doug - who has a 6th sense when it comes to tuning LSx’s and attention to detail. And equally as important, Chase who's main goal was to insure that the customer is happy and took the time to explain to me in detail, not only the “what's” but “why's” too. The shop was spotless and being associated with Lingenfelter, many of their modded packages come with the same 2 year 24,000mi warranty... That is rare these days... If you live in the Dallas area - or even like me who drove 150 miles - it is worth the trip.
John/Doug/Chase, thank you- thank you- thank you, and now of course I have been bitten by the mod bug, let’s talk cam/headers and maybe a 125 shot next.... Frank
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedVette View Post
On Saturday I drove my '08 Z with 400+ miles to 21 Century Muscle Car in Carrollton TX. (North Dallas area). I had the standard basic mods put on, Killer bee/Bee Hive, cold air mod, thermostat and tune. Being a Saturday and not wanting to keep the guys past 1pm (open until 1pm on Saturdays) I passed on the base dyno pull and had the bolt on’s put on first. I was impressed that they drained my entire coolant system to avoid a mess down the front of the block. Then replaced the coolant with new Dex-Cool and NOT just recycling the old stuff from the catch bucket. They took extra care of prepping the fenders before putting down the fender guards. After the job was complete they quick detailed the entire nose of the car. The attention to detail was nothing short of “spot on”. The dyno results were as follows - No tune - but with the 160-deg t-stat, Killer bee/bee hive CAI the car made 459.5/438 to the tire with an a/f of 10 and 19 deg of timing (I believe the CAI pushed the number higher and think I probably would have been in the 445-450/425-430 rwhp/rwtq range). On the 3rd pull with an a/f of 12.8 and 25 deg of timing we saw 478/449 . I asked them to stop there for now. I was not going for the "ragged edge" and was satisfied, they agreed.
I want to thank John Page for all his help, time spend on the phone, not trying to over sell once he understood my plan of action, knowledge base and accommodations. Also a special thanks to Doug - who has a 6th sense when it comes to tuning LSx’s and attention to detail. And equally as important, Chase who's main goal was to insure that the customer is happy and took the time to explain to me in detail, not only the “what's” but “why's” too. The shop was spotless and being associated with Lingenfelter, many of their modded packages come with the same 2 year 24,000mi warranty... That is rare these days... If you live in the Dallas area - or even like me who drove 150 miles - it is worth the trip.
John/Doug/Chase, thank you- thank you- thank you, and now of course I have been bitten by the mod bug, let’s talk cam/headers and maybe a 125 shot next.... Frank
Great numbers, and I agree, John Page knows his stuff. The initial air fuel ratio is common with the Killer Bee when dyno testing especially. The "new air" and additional heat from that air and fuel turning into horsepower typically cause GM's ECM activated safeguards to kick in, adding fuel to save the Cats, and fuel cooling IVT Gain parameters, which is related to intake valve temperature calculations.

This is why tuning is the key to releasing the beast. Even without tuning, the Killer Bee puts 10 RWHP to the Ground and 11 ft. lbs torque. Just turning dialing in the air fuel ratio with a small bump in timing puts another 20 or so to the mix.

On the road, with the Beehive keeping intake temps steady, you would likely not have the fatter air fuel mix, since the IVT Gain and the COTP PE code rarely if ever come on, they way they do on the dyno.

Have fun

Last edited by Halltech; 10-27-2008 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:46 AM   #3
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21st cent. is the cleanest shop in DFW
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:58 AM   #4
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I may give this place a try when I get back. i'm just down the road from you. I 've been looking for a decent tuner around central texas. I just did vararam on my 06 and plan on cam and headers later(in Iraq now). I dynoed in killeen with 468rwhp stock. Looking for more.
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Last edited by spdmn75; 10-27-2008 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:19 PM   #5
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Nice
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:22 PM   #6
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I just got off the phone with Frank earlier this afternoon. He took our Ram Air Ports one step further by cutting out the center section of the shroud, in the middle of the two ports we recommend. John got some additional flow from this procedure.

For those that do not know this (very few) the factory NACA ducting actually works, bringing cold outside air into the filter directly. Our suggested additional two ports will actually create a ram air effect with the Beehive in place.

We do not claim ambient pressure+ with our ram air, but simply cold air in abundance that fills the Beehive at speed, making much more airflow available than stock.

http://www.corvettels7.com/Instructi...iveInstall.pdf
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:58 AM   #7
ForcedVette
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In theory, since the Bee Hive seals off the Killer Bee from any engine heat. The only thing missing was the introduction of outside air. Well not any more. Jim Hall has simple instructions to how to bring air in easily, effectively and without cutting up the car. There are 2 slots in the radiator shroud, visible once the stock air box is removed. Halltech recommends opening these slots or tabs (very easy, did not remove the shroud) to add air from the outside to enter in. It will work in combination with the factory NACA Duct. While thinking along these lines, I figured to remove the center slot, would allow for even greater volumes of outside air to enter. The logic is paying off. I do not have IAT's but I do notice what felt like my old Vararam at 70+ in my '02 C-5 Z06. I am NOT saying this is a true ram. This is not enclosed system with a single channeled opening designed for volumes of air to enter at various speeds - but given the natural vacuum effect created at wot, the sealed off and contained area, and now the ability to allow outside air in to this "cavity" - you will be surprised at the results. No oil cooler removal, no hacking the radiator shroud (in fact the dealer will never know), the 3rd slot did not weaken the rigidity of the shroud, and best of all - nothing blocking the Oil cooler, Trans cooler, or radiator that could hinder the potential to cool. I will be giving John Page at 21 Century Muscle Car in Carrollton TX. updates periodically. He is offering a CAI package with this mod as an option - call John for pricing on this.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:12 AM   #8
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John runs a very professional operation. Ive never had a bad experience with them.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:57 AM   #9
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I wish i live in texas.. they are so many good shops to pick from and this place is one of the best..... good numbers!!!
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:37 AM   #10
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:49 AM   #11
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sounds like you found the "Right" shop to go to in Texas....Cleanliness says a lot about any buisness in my opinion. I've seen direct correlations with dirty shops+ sh*ty work in the past from paint shops to tuner shops.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:41 PM   #12
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+1 for 21st century musclecars being a quality shop!

I took my 2008 Cooksey Z there for B&B Fusions system. The group did the install, and even rode along with me to help me diagnose a weird clicking noise. They've got some great cars, and are ultra nice to work with. I actually left my OE exhaust there, and have forgotten to pick it up, so John -- if you read this, you wouldn't by chance still have it, would you?

Ben
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:54 PM   #13
SidePipeMusic
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I'm in San Antonio, and though we have a very reputable tuner nearby, these are some very nice testimonials. I'll definitely consider taking my car to 21st Century.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:43 PM   #14
Dik Kurteous
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Originally Posted by kumar75150 View Post
John runs a very professional operation. Ive never had a bad experience with them.
That's good to hear!=
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:43 PM
 
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