[Z06] Z06 9th out of 10 per MotorTrend Test
05-02-2007, 08:45 AM
#161
Drifting
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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1560016993
And yes, you can click on that image to see the table.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=136
05-02-2007, 09:09 AM
#163
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Please read Raj's and my post above:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1560016993
And yes, you can click on that image to see the table.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=136
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...post1560016993
And yes, you can click on that image to see the table.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=136
I don't see any "fabricated" results in the MT article.
05-02-2007, 09:34 AM
#164
Drifting
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05-02-2007, 09:56 AM
#165
Race Director
I was just reading this issue at Wally-World last night (don't subscribe to it for this very reason, unless I need paper for the parakeet cage that is). It caught my eye because it has a picture of the new Shelby GT500KR Mustang on the cover taughting "540hp" and "Rip the Z06" emblazened next to the photo. The same issue reported on the new C7 Corvette with 700 "supercharged" horsepower to be called the Z07. A picture of a Black Z06 with a hood scoop accompanies the article. The article goes on to state that the current Z06 will become the standard model in 2009. Remember, you heard it here (MT) first folks! 
05-02-2007, 09:57 AM
#166
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Yes I did. My math (using the objective data) showed the Vette tied for 4th, not tied for 3rd. As I said earlier, I could have made a mistake, but that's what I came up with.
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
05-02-2007, 10:05 AM
#167
Racer
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Yes I did. My math (using the objective data) showed the Vette tied for 4th, not tied for 3rd. As I said earlier, I could have made a mistake, but that's what I came up with.
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
i don't think the Z06 out of the box is all that fluid a car as it is. and in this particular company, it's certainly not very forgiving compared to the rest of the cars.
05-02-2007, 10:11 AM
#168
Melting Slicks
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I too question the MT results. I do feel, however, that the handling does have issues which may well be tire related. I find that the back end will step out when pushed in a turn. While it is not a fair comparision, I will take a winding road at much higher speed and sense of confidence in my 360 Stradale then the Vette. I suspect that super sticky tires on the Ferrari are a big contributer to this as well as suspension and chassis issues. Frankly, I found my C5 Z06 more comfortable to toss around than my C6 Z06. Perhaps it's my own learning curve but I suspect that the Z has "more power than chassis refinement" when the road is not super smooth.
The C6Z, however, is in a different universe. Many of the people that complain about the C6Z being "tail happy" don't realize that this car will teach you the "friction circle" theory in practical terms.
You may be able to floor the throttle coming out of a corner with a less powerful car, but with just a little bit of lateral Gs the C6Z has enough torque to break loose the rear wheels at will in 2nd gear (you also have to be careful in 3rd). Since the top speed in 3rd exceeds 125 MPH, these two gears encompass much of the driving usually done in an HPDE.
If you are careful in applying the power at corner exit (instead of just mashing the GO pedal), this car handles right there with the best of them.
As you point out, stickier tires definitely help, but the ultimate result is the same. With sticky tires (I have Hoosier R6s in my C6Z) you are just delaying your arrival at the edge of the friction circle. The car has enough torque in the lower gears (1-3) to break the rear wheels loose even with Hoosier A6s.
Please note: THIS IS NOT A DEFECT in the C6Z. It is just the nature of high-horsepower cars. They are inherently harder to drive than an anemic Civic.
Frank Gonzalez
05-02-2007, 10:27 AM
#169
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The Stradale is a superb car, and I'm sure it is a joy to drive (I wish I could afford one).
The C6Z, however, is in a different universe. Many of the people that complain about the C6Z being "tail happy" don't realize that this car will teach you the "friction circle" theory in practical terms.
You may be able to floor the throttle coming out of a corner with a less powerful car, but with just a little bit of lateral Gs the C6Z has enough torque to break loose the rear wheels at will in 2nd gear (you also have to be careful in 3rd). Since the top speed in 3rd exceeds 125 MPH, these two gears encompass much of the driving usually done in an HPDE.
If you are careful in applying the power at corner exit (instead of just mashing the GO pedal), this car handles right there with the best of them.
As you point out, stickier tires definitely help, but the ultimate result is the same. With sticky tires (I have Hoosier R6s in my C6Z) you are just delaying your arrival at the edge of the friction circle. The car has enough torque in the lower gears (1-3) to break the rear wheels loose even with Hoosier A6s.
Please note: THIS IS NOT A DEFECT in the C6Z. It is just the nature of high-horsepower cars. They are inherently harder to drive than an anemic Civic.
Frank Gonzalez
The C6Z, however, is in a different universe. Many of the people that complain about the C6Z being "tail happy" don't realize that this car will teach you the "friction circle" theory in practical terms.
You may be able to floor the throttle coming out of a corner with a less powerful car, but with just a little bit of lateral Gs the C6Z has enough torque to break loose the rear wheels at will in 2nd gear (you also have to be careful in 3rd). Since the top speed in 3rd exceeds 125 MPH, these two gears encompass much of the driving usually done in an HPDE.
If you are careful in applying the power at corner exit (instead of just mashing the GO pedal), this car handles right there with the best of them.
As you point out, stickier tires definitely help, but the ultimate result is the same. With sticky tires (I have Hoosier R6s in my C6Z) you are just delaying your arrival at the edge of the friction circle. The car has enough torque in the lower gears (1-3) to break the rear wheels loose even with Hoosier A6s.
Please note: THIS IS NOT A DEFECT in the C6Z. It is just the nature of high-horsepower cars. They are inherently harder to drive than an anemic Civic.
Frank Gonzalez
05-02-2007, 10:28 AM
#170
Drifting
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Yes I did. My math (using the objective data) showed the Vette tied for 4th, not tied for 3rd. As I said earlier, I could have made a mistake, but that's what I came up with.
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
But objective data was not the only test criteria. As you know, MY also included subjective assessments in determining the overall results. Are you saying the subjective assessments were "fabricated"?
And what specifically are the "nonsense premises" in the test?
The mouse has better handling than the cat!
But that won't help.
The "cat" (Z06) will always beat all these "mice" on a serious race track.
The only Z06 contender in that list is the GT3.
Again, this test is a total nonsense, BS, crap.
Further illustrating the nonsense premises of the test, here are some cars that didn't make it to the final (alphabetical order):
Audi RS4
Dodge Viper
Ferrari 430
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lotus Elise
Mazda MX5
Mazda RX8
Porsche 997 Turbo
Subaru STI
I won't waste my time on this subject anymore. MT=BS.
05-02-2007, 10:37 AM
#171
Drifting
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It is designed to be very fast, it is a high performance car!
Of course the Civic or the Mazda is "very forgiving", there is no torque and power in those, plus they are FWD. There is nothing to forgive!
A Chevy Aveo or a Toyota Yaris is "very forgiving" compared with the Z06.
I will unsubscribe this thread, I can't believe it, what a waste of time.
05-02-2007, 10:48 AM
#173
Le Mans Master
If anything, I believe the car with street tires has UNDERsteer in it. NOT tail happy. TAIL happy in the Z comes from amateurs who don't know how to balance the car in a turn.
05-02-2007, 10:53 AM
#175
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05-02-2007, 11:54 AM
#177
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Fellas,
I'm going to sound arrogant again. So everyone with sesitivities should just ignore me.
A good driver in any of the first five cars and the Z can give fits to just about anyone on a track if not outright beat them. While the Gayman and the Exige are a little down on power, they are the best of the lot if handling means getting through turns at high entry and exit speeds. Mini is no slouch either. IT all depends upon the driver. Handling in the sense of this article appears to be a mystical index so I would just ignore most of their conclusions.
Enjoy what you drive, who cares what MT thinks.
I'm going to sound arrogant again. So everyone with sesitivities should just ignore me.
A good driver in any of the first five cars and the Z can give fits to just about anyone on a track if not outright beat them. While the Gayman and the Exige are a little down on power, they are the best of the lot if handling means getting through turns at high entry and exit speeds. Mini is no slouch either. IT all depends upon the driver. Handling in the sense of this article appears to be a mystical index so I would just ignore most of their conclusions.
Enjoy what you drive, who cares what MT thinks.
05-02-2007, 02:06 PM
#178
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05-02-2007, 04:38 PM
#179
That being said, I have driven a few cars on that list. Porsche 911, Cayman/Boxster, Lotus Elise/Exige, and EVO. Will the Viper hold a turn at the same or greater G loads? Yes. Will it turn as good or better lap times than these cars? Yes. Is it as easy to ‘ring out 10 – 10th? No. Is at as confidence inspiring? No. Does it give the driver as much feedback? No.
And many people feel the Z06 is worse than the Viper at the ‘No’ answers above. Therefore, I do agree with the article in that there is a lot to be improved with the American Iron. On a track you can repeatedly test the limits in corners and continue to improve. It is less about feedback, and more about experience. On the street it is the opposite. And this is the biggest flaw of the American Iron – Driver feedback. Feeling at one with the car….
