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Old 03-01-2007, 03:38 PM   #141
zorvette
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I'm with Doc on this one. GM please tell us you've built enough redundancy in the system where it would default to "neutral" when the computer can't process the info given by it by the sensors properly.
This is not the case as my day with the three GM engineers proved out when my '07 Z was doint the exact same thing without any inputs from me. However, the unit will over-ride itself with a multitude of errors that have no logic but it is not in all cases that this scenario happens.

A scan of the codes and sub-codes is required and I feel strongly they will bear fruit in regard to what happened. The rest is speculation about slippery roads, driver error etc. The codes and sub-codes will explain in detail what happened. Especially if the vehicle has not been restarted.

The scenario required during all test phases for GM is that after any event, drive the car to the garage and do not shut it off as some info can be lost. In this case that couldn't happen, but the last series of codes will be there showing what was going on.

Last edited by zorvette; 03-01-2007 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 03-02-2007, 05:35 AM   #142
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This is one of the reasons I prefer pre-federal Corvettes - Pleanty of power and no electonics......
I have to agree. The active handling may be able to react quicker than the driver, but the driver is not likely to yank the wheel if he hicups. The more crap they put on these cars, the more possibilities there are for things to go wrong.
My '91 has ABS, and nothing else- no traction control, and no active handling control, and that's the way I like it. My right foot and my own good common sense and respect for horsepower are the only traction controll I need.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:27 AM   #143
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Sorry in advance that I'm about to lose a screw.

He's driving straight at a constant speed acording to witnesses and himself. Somehow you guys have got him defending himself and have him citing his professional track experience, drag racing experience, and multiple corvette ownerships. Are you guys kidding me??? Give the guy a break. I'm sure everyone here is more than capable of driving in a straight line at 50mph on a straight flat road in the middle of the day, even before we all got our driver's licenses. Is the next person that has this problem going to get flamed out of here because he or she is not a professional racer thus cannot possibly be able to drive straight? If ICU didn't post his extensive racing/corvette experience would you be less inclined to believe him? Get real.

I've had active handling problems in my C5 as well (but no accidents) and just had the steering wheel sensor replaced. The AH would come on for no reason driving in a straight line. I would turn it off because it was a very unnerving feeling having the pedal pulsate for no reason. It seems to me that if the car is unable to acurately tell the steering wheel position then it is clearly possible that it will not brake properly with ABS or control a skid with AH. In fact, it seems equally likely that it could cause an accident if its relying on faulty information. That being said, there are surely several other mechanical failures that may have happened in this case. It is possible to get the event data recorder analyzed privately. Do a little google searching and I'm sure you'll find a place with the right scanner. No need to be out of commission for 3 months.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:38 AM   #144
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We are all waiting for this to unfold. But how ? GM wants 3 month to investigate and "ICU" declined.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:47 AM   #145
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Sorry in advance that I'm about to lose a screw.

He's driving straight at a constant speed acording to witnesses and himself. Somehow you guys have got him defending himself and have him citing his professional track experience, drag racing experience, and multiple corvette ownerships. Are you guys kidding me??? Give the guy a break. I'm sure everyone here is more than capable of driving in a straight line at 50mph on a straight flat road in the middle of the day, even before we all got our driver's licenses. Is the next person that has this problem going to get flamed out of here because he or she is not a professional racer thus cannot possibly be able to drive straight? If ICU didn't post his extensive racing/corvette experience would you be less inclined to believe him? Get real.

I've had active handling problems in my C5 as well (but no accidents) and just had the steering wheel sensor replaced. The AH would come on for no reason driving in a straight line. I would turn it off because it was a very unnerving feeling having the pedal pulsate for no reason. It seems to me that if the car is unable to acurately tell the steering wheel position then it is clearly possible that it will not brake properly with ABS or control a skid with AH. In fact, it seems equally likely that it could cause an accident if its relying on faulty information. That being said, there are surely several other mechanical failures that may have happened in this case. It is possible to get the event data recorder analyzed privately. Do a little google searching and I'm sure you'll find a place with the right scanner. No need to be out of commission for 3 months.
So that you don't "lose a screw," if you read the thread, chronologically and carefully, I think you'll see he didn't supply very much information initially. We didn't know if he was a crazy kid, or a person, who was not entirely forthcoming with the facts of the accident. We've seen plenty of those in this and other forums.

As the thread unfolded, and more people challenged and asked questions, he shared more info, and his account became more credible. Yes, we are all waiting for more info on this.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:48 AM   #146
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Sorry in advance that I'm about to lose a screw.

He's driving straight at a constant speed acording to witnesses and himself. Somehow you guys have got him defending himself and have him citing his professional track experience, drag racing experience, and multiple corvette ownerships. Are you guys kidding me??? Give the guy a break. I'm sure everyone here is more than capable of driving in a straight line at 50mph on a straight flat road in the middle of the day, even before we all got our driver's licenses. Is the next person that has this problem going to get flamed out of here because he or she is not a professional racer thus cannot possibly be able to drive straight? If ICU didn't post his extensive racing/corvette experience would you be less inclined to believe him? Get real.

I've had active handling problems in my C5 as well (but no accidents) and just had the steering wheel sensor replaced. The AH would come on for no reason driving in a straight line. I would turn it off because it was a very unnerving feeling having the pedal pulsate for no reason. It seems to me that if the car is unable to acurately tell the steering wheel position then it is clearly possible that it will not brake properly with ABS or control a skid with AH. In fact, it seems equally likely that it could cause an accident if its relying on faulty information. That being said, there are surely several other mechanical failures that may have happened in this case. It is possible to get the event data recorder analyzed privately. Do a little google searching and I'm sure you'll find a place with the right scanner. No need to be out of commission for 3 months.

Very well stated, and I completely agree.
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Old 03-05-2007, 01:07 PM   #147
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Took awhile to review all comments and other links provided.

I doubt this is due to driver error. At 60 MPH on dry roads, it would be unlikely a seasoned vette driver would lose control this badly.

I have hit black ice 4 times this winter at 50-60 MPH speeds ... in cars w/o active handling. Each time I was able to recover control within 100 feet or so ... and stay on course.

I don't wish to consider what my outcomes might of been if vehicles had active A/H onboard and armed.

I strongly recommend this computer/car get sent to GM for complete eval.

For now ... all my vettes will run with A/H disarmed. I suspect there is a gremlin within GM's brain.
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:10 PM   #148
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5826 views, over 100 replies and we still know nothing factual regarding the cause
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Old 03-05-2007, 04:30 PM   #149
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5826 views, over 100 replies and we still know nothing factual regarding the cause
Most likely never will.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:01 PM   #150
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Took awhile to review all comments and other links provided.

I doubt this is due to driver error. At 60 MPH on dry roads, it would be unlikely a seasoned vette driver would lose control this badly.

I have hit black ice 4 times this winter at 50-60 MPH speeds ... in cars w/o active handling. Each time I was able to recover control within 100 feet or so ... and stay on course.

I don't wish to consider what my outcomes might of been if vehicles had active A/H onboard and armed.

I strongly recommend this computer/car get sent to GM for complete eval.

For now ... all my vettes will run with A/H disarmed. I suspect there is a gremlin within GM's brain.
You spent all that time reading and still managed to miss the one lesson to be learned??!! The suicide button got him IN this jam! Why would you conclude that you need to push yours too?
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:06 PM   #151
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Agree, it is the height of irresponsibility to advocate that people turn this stuff off because of a completely undocumented incident.

It is a great way to create a whole slew of new accidents.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:18 PM   #152
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Agree, it is the height of irresponsibility to advocate that people turn this stuff off because of a completely undocumented incident.

It is a great way to create a whole slew of new accidents.

We may not have the results in, but still is very interesting and somewhat informative......or could be, depending on the results.By keeping up the dialogue, we are in a sense, awaiting feedback.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:28 PM   #153
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The suicide button got him IN this jam! :
Suicide button ...

Sounds like you are conceding it was computer malfunction ... and not him being heavy on the pedal.

Why did GM put in the button in the first place ? They know it has its limitations (even when working properly).

If things are as he describes ... his A/H system was misfiring. If the system was disarmed and it intervened causing his accident ... thats especially disturbing.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:35 PM   #154
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Suicide button ...

Sounds like you are conceding it was computer malfunction ... and not him being heavy on the pedal.

Why did GM put in the button in the first place ? They know it has its limitations (even when working properly).

If things are as he describes ... his A/H system was misfiring. If the system was disarmed and it intervened causing his accident ... thats especially disturbing.
Let me get this straight...your theory is since the AH was off the computer malfunctioned and turned on causing the accident?
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:43 PM   #155
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Let me get this straight...your theory is since the AH was off the computer malfunctioned and turned on causing the accident?
No ... that's your theory. You said he got himself in trouble by touching the 'suicide button'.

Who's on first ? No, Who's spun out in ditch cause he touched the ejection button .... per your read.
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Old 03-05-2007, 05:56 PM   #156
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No ... that's your theory. You said he got himself in trouble by touching the 'suicide button'.

Who's on first ? No, Who's spun out in ditch cause he touched the ejection button .... per your read.
The reminds me of when you tried to explain how upgrading the axles wouldn't add weight. I won't reply to your posts anymore.
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Old 03-05-2007, 06:06 PM   #157
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The reminds me of when you tried to explain how upgrading the axles wouldn't add weight. I won't reply to your posts anymore.
Take your marbles and go home .....
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:47 PM   #158
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You spent all that time reading and still managed to miss the one lesson to be learned??!! The suicide button got him IN this jam! Why would you conclude that you need to push yours too?
I again read this thread carefully, and I don't believe this comment is correct - unless I missed something. The driver ICU812 said he had on Competitive Driving Mode - that is, he pushed the button twice. But Competitive Driving Mode does NOT turn off the Active Handling System.

I was confused by this as well. Here's a link that explains it:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1636017

To turn off Active Handling, which controls the selective application of the brakes, you must push and hold down the button for 5 seconds - this is NOT Competitive Driving Mode.

The incident with ICU812 and the other incident with Zorvette are both similar because each driver seemed to lose control of the car with no input from the driver. In the case of Zorvette, it was found that the plug to the Active Handling System computer (EBCM) was not correctly pushed in, which caused the loss of control. But there were all sorts of codes that proved what happened.

Since ICU812 still (apparently) had Active Handling turned on, it could have malfunctioned similarly to Zorvette's problem. Without the codes, we won't know anything further, but putting the car into Competitive Driving Mode did not turn off Active Handling.

Last edited by kawal; 03-05-2007 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:02 PM   #159
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However, it is less intrusive, and less able to correct a driver's mistakes.
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:44 PM   #160
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The code that "Zorvette" posted in the other forum are as follows:

CO710/52
CO196/09
CO196/00
CO136/00
CO186/00

My understanding is that these codes were diagnosed by GM and the cause was traced (faulty yaw sensor or faulty wiring connection at the steering wheel) note to "Zorvette": Please correct me if this is not accurate).
I think it would be helpful if "ICU812" can update this thread with some info from a code reader. Similar codes may lead to a simolar conclusion ! I'm un-easy with this as this could hapen to any of us, can you imagine you're passing someone and the computer takes over and overcorrect
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