[Z06] My impressions so far...
09-30-2005, 07:23 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Andi
I noticed no unnecessary vertical motions in the chassis. I'm used to a LOT of them from my C5 Z06 (which weren't even perfectly vertical, the car would yaw on midcorner bumps/etc unnecessarily), and I actually kind of expected them in this car. That's why I was so pleasantly surprised when I discovered how damn stable this car is. It totally reminds me of the ///M5 in that respect. And I always said the E39 ///M5 would be the perfect getaway car.
Drivetrain noise? Yeah I notice a little bit when driving around in parking lots. BARELY. Shoot, the variable RPM fans under the hood are louder than the drivetrain. The shifter does not rattle at all... and the transmission tunnel heat, while there, is actually LESS than it was on my '04 Z06.
One thing that I forgot to mention is the clutch. It's a very light pedal -- I actually preferred the C5 Z06 clutch feel. It engages right on the floor, and I'm guessing they used the clutch face material rather than claming force to increase the torque holding capacity. It is a very agressive clutch material.. I can tell because if I'm slowly backing up into a parking spot or my garage, i.e. barely slipping the clutch backing up, the car will start bucking a bit.. just like when I had a full race clutch in my old Supra. Heh.
Andi
Drivetrain noise? Yeah I notice a little bit when driving around in parking lots. BARELY. Shoot, the variable RPM fans under the hood are louder than the drivetrain. The shifter does not rattle at all... and the transmission tunnel heat, while there, is actually LESS than it was on my '04 Z06.
One thing that I forgot to mention is the clutch. It's a very light pedal -- I actually preferred the C5 Z06 clutch feel. It engages right on the floor, and I'm guessing they used the clutch face material rather than claming force to increase the torque holding capacity. It is a very agressive clutch material.. I can tell because if I'm slowly backing up into a parking spot or my garage, i.e. barely slipping the clutch backing up, the car will start bucking a bit.. just like when I had a full race clutch in my old Supra. Heh.
Andi
I wonder are the Front and Rear brake ducts bigger than the C6 Z51?
C6 Z51 front brake ducts are larger than the base C6.....
I think that to answer that you will have to do a visual inspection....
09-30-2005, 07:25 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Thud
I bet a lot of that has to do with the gearing. After driving the C5 version for a while, you subconsciously know what your engine sounds like (rpm-wise) when going a certain speed.
I'd be curious to see doing 90 in 3rd gear in the C5Z has the engine turning about the same rpm as the C6Z at 110 in 3rd.
I'd be curious to see doing 90 in 3rd gear in the C5Z has the engine turning about the same rpm as the C6Z at 110 in 3rd.
09-30-2005, 07:40 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Andi
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset.
In any event, your car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
09-30-2005, 07:41 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Andi
I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake.
09-30-2005, 07:42 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by rbartick
While I can believe that the C6 handles better than the C5, the way better and leaps and bounds comments are a bit hard to believe especially after only owning the car for 20 hours. I guess I will have to drive one and see for myself.
In any event, the car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
In any event, the car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
09-30-2005, 07:50 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Andi
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible. The only other car I've ever driven that felt this good was the E39 ///M5.
09-30-2005, 07:53 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by rbartick
While I can believe that the C6 handles better than the C5, the way better and leaps and bounds comments are a bit hard to believe especially after only owning the car for 20 hours. I guess I will have to drive one and see for myself.
In any event, your car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
In any event, your car is awesome. Enjoy, I am jealous.
I'll gladly be proven wrong, but for now I find it hard to believe that the C5 Z06 suddenly sucks and this car has just shamed it completely.
If that is true, then the new Z06 is astonishing, because the old Z06 DOESN'T suck and might be the next closest thing to the new Z06 in many a competition...
09-30-2005, 07:58 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by Andi
I noticed no unnecessary vertical motions in the chassis. I'm used to a LOT of them from my C5 Z06 (which weren't even perfectly vertical, the car would yaw on midcorner bumps/etc unnecessarily), and I actually kind of expected them in this car.
One thing that I forgot to mention is the clutch. It's a very light pedal -- I actually preferred the C5 Z06 clutch feel. It engages right on the floor, and I'm guessing they used the clutch face material rather than claming force to increase the torque holding capacity. It is a very agressive clutch material.. I can tell because if I'm slowly backing up into a parking spot or my garage, i.e. barely slipping the clutch backing up, the car will start bucking a bit.. just like when I had a full race clutch in my old Supra.
I would describe it as NOTHING LIKE a race clutch and EVERYTHING LIKE a clutch in which the feel was taken out of the system. It isn't about clamping either, you can increase clamping pressure and still have an easy clutch pedal, but you lose feel by over leveraging the pedal.
09-30-2005, 08:27 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by rbartick
While I can believe that the C6 handles better than the C5, the way better and leaps and bounds comments are a bit hard to believe especially after only owning the car for 20 hours. I guess I will have to drive one and see for myself.
09-30-2005, 08:28 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Tom Steele
I'll gladly be proven wrong, but for now I find it hard to believe that the C5 Z06 suddenly sucks and this car has just shamed it completely.
If that is true, then the new Z06 is astonishing, because the old Z06 DOESN'T suck and might be the next closest thing to the new Z06 in many a competition...
Andi
09-30-2005, 08:31 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Tom Steele
You sure there wasn't something wrong with your C5 Z06?
That bothers me. Clutch was my #1 complaint about my C6 Z51. It was like they took ALL THE FEEL out of it so that the cruisers could enjoy the ease of the pedal at the expense of those who knew how to feel a clutch engaging. I never got used to the clutch feel while I owned my C6 and truly thought/hoped there might be something wrong with that particular car. If the C6 Z06 has the same clutch feel as my C6 Z51 had, it is a giant leap backwards.
I would describe it as NOTHING LIKE a race clutch and EVERYTHING LIKE a clutch in which the feel was taken out of the system. It isn't about clamping either, you can increase clamping pressure and still have an easy clutch pedal, but you lose feel by over leveraging the pedal.
I would describe it as NOTHING LIKE a race clutch and EVERYTHING LIKE a clutch in which the feel was taken out of the system. It isn't about clamping either, you can increase clamping pressure and still have an easy clutch pedal, but you lose feel by over leveraging the pedal.
heh.The C5 6sp is the easiest to drive manual transmission car ever. Period.
Andi
09-30-2005, 10:58 PM
#34
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After driving this new Z back to back with my 04Z this week I have to agree with Andi's feelings. As soon as I drove off Stanfords lot with this thing I new I had moved up a level in handling/performance. My body kept sensing solidity/stability even on beat up Detroit highway--significantly more than I am used to in the 04. It almost felt as if I was riding in a heavier car. I kept thinking this feels more like our 5seriesBMW! SOLID! Planted, but extremely responsive to every input--- I was thrilled and pleasantly surprised as you are Andi with this positive change. I recall reading in Corvette Quarterly, I think, how GM reduced the thickness of the anti-roll bar in the rear to work better with the new Z's increased suspension travel. Maybe that's what makes the car feel less nervous and more confidence inspiring. I don't know all the details but I've definitely felt the difference, especially on bumpy, irregular concrete roads. When my wife asked me to describe how the new Z feels, I said "our Bimmer ride and my Z06 performance on steroids." And just for the record, I have pushed my Z16 to the limits and then some at the track, only to come away humbled and impressed by its capacities. Even with 100 less horsepower the 04 will nip at the 06's heels through the turns IMHO. I have tailgated GT3s till they let me pass in exasperation(one had Mich. Sport Cups to my F1's!)and kept pace with a Radical for a few laps---the C5Z IS NO SLOUCH!!! 
--Damian
--Damian
09-30-2005, 11:14 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Andi
So, now that I've had my new Z06 for ~20 hours I figured I'd post some driving impressions of the car.
First, the interior. The seats are first class IMHO. FINALLY a vette with seats that are up to par. The leather feels nice, the bolsters on the sides actually hold you, and they seats are damn comfortable. Now, the rest of the interior is okay, a lot better than the C5 in some ways and a bit worse in others. What's better? Well the materials, like for example the top of the dash, is actually a nice soft-touch grainy vinyl, a nice upgrade over the C5's hard touch vinyl/plastic whatever it was. I hate the silver painted wannabe-metal plastic on the center console. But I guess I'll live with it. I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Sorry for ranting. Other ****les: the climate control on bi-level directs too much air to the feet and too little to the face, so even though I loved bi-level on the C5 I find myself using just the face vents on the C6.. and I also hate the way the radio makes you have individual bass/treble presets for each source/preset. That's gonna take me half an hour to program. Nice. I also really miss the partition I had in my C5 Z06, so I could throw my digital camera and CD's behind me and they didn't fly all the way to the back every time I accelerated.
OK, now that the interior's out of the way, let's get to the good stuff. (1) Brakes.. Since I only have 85 miles on the car, I didn't want to push the non-bedded-in brake pads too hard and test the ABS calibration / etc yet... but I can tell you, the one or two times I did hit the brakes rather hard, the cars stopped damn well. That having been said, the brakes are NOT grabby. At first I was disappointed and thought the brakes felt like they needed too much effort.. that's improved a bit sine the first drive, and I also realized it's a good thing they aren't so overboosted as on most cars so you can modulate better.
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible. The only other car I've ever driven that felt this good was the E39 ///M5.
Now for the best part...... that beautiful engine. There are not enough words to describe this masterpiece of a small block. When the car starts, it fires up with a mean, loud bark from the mufflers before the muffler valves have a chance to close (more on this later). Then it gets quiet. REAL quiet. This is another way the car reminds me of the E39 ///M5 -- it sounds just like one inside the car when tooling around at low revs / low throttle openings. But, get on the throttle a little bit, and it's clear this is no M5 or base C6. It takes a bit to get used to the quirky electronic throttle (it's not as smooth or direct as the C5's was, but it's still pretty good).. The power is incredible. GM increased the torque of the engine and the gearing by about the same amount, so each gear *feels* about the same as it did in the old car.. (except for 3rd, for some reason 3rd in this car feels incredible and pulls way harder than it should considering it goes to 125MPH). The difference is, although 2nd in the new Z pulls about the same as 2nd in the old Z... 2nd now is your 60-95mph racing gear, whereas on the old Z 2nd ended at 70 and the old car was in 3rd at that point. This car rockets from 60 to 95 in 2nd like nothing I've experienced.. today on the freeway I downshifted to 2nd at 65 and floored it from a roll and it actually barked the tires for a quick moment before approaching redline (95mph) within a couple seconds.. This is WITHOUT any clutch action. GM was very smart to put such tall gearing on the car -- it allows the engine's massive power and torque to be useable, rather than just leaving you sitting there spinning the tires.
One thing that just cracks me up about this car is how easy it is to make it loud, if you want. There's a fuse under the passenger side footwell labeled as a "spare" fuse, both in the owner's manual and in the fuse cover. Remove it and the exhaust flaps stay open, with no engine codes or anything. Under that mode, it is loud as hell and damn raw at low revs, and especially at 600RPM idle the entire cabin resonates. I ran like that for a few hours and switched it back.
All in all, this is the best car I've ever driven. They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), added a bunch of power, let it weigh the exact same, and only screwed up a couple small things here and there, and for the price and the performance, those things REALLY don't matter.
Gotta go for a drive...
Andi
First, the interior. The seats are first class IMHO. FINALLY a vette with seats that are up to par. The leather feels nice, the bolsters on the sides actually hold you, and they seats are damn comfortable. Now, the rest of the interior is okay, a lot better than the C5 in some ways and a bit worse in others. What's better? Well the materials, like for example the top of the dash, is actually a nice soft-touch grainy vinyl, a nice upgrade over the C5's hard touch vinyl/plastic whatever it was. I hate the silver painted wannabe-metal plastic on the center console. But I guess I'll live with it. I also hate how my passengers can never get out of the car when I want to drop them off, because the doors auto lock at X mph and don't auto unlock when you pull the handbrake. Maybe there's a window valet for the C6 to fix that like there was for the C5; hopefully. Or maybe they should just make the car listen to the damn electronic door handles on the inside and assume if you're trying to get out maybe you actually WANT to get out?! Sorry for ranting. Other ****les: the climate control on bi-level directs too much air to the feet and too little to the face, so even though I loved bi-level on the C5 I find myself using just the face vents on the C6.. and I also hate the way the radio makes you have individual bass/treble presets for each source/preset. That's gonna take me half an hour to program. Nice. I also really miss the partition I had in my C5 Z06, so I could throw my digital camera and CD's behind me and they didn't fly all the way to the back every time I accelerated.
OK, now that the interior's out of the way, let's get to the good stuff. (1) Brakes.. Since I only have 85 miles on the car, I didn't want to push the non-bedded-in brake pads too hard and test the ABS calibration / etc yet... but I can tell you, the one or two times I did hit the brakes rather hard, the cars stopped damn well. That having been said, the brakes are NOT grabby. At first I was disappointed and thought the brakes felt like they needed too much effort.. that's improved a bit sine the first drive, and I also realized it's a good thing they aren't so overboosted as on most cars so you can modulate better.
Handling? It's incredible. Way better than my C5 Z06, even with the 2004 Z06 "Nurburbring" shocks. The ride is a bit stiffer than my old car, but the handling is leaps and bounds better. High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible. The only other car I've ever driven that felt this good was the E39 ///M5.
Now for the best part...... that beautiful engine. There are not enough words to describe this masterpiece of a small block. When the car starts, it fires up with a mean, loud bark from the mufflers before the muffler valves have a chance to close (more on this later). Then it gets quiet. REAL quiet. This is another way the car reminds me of the E39 ///M5 -- it sounds just like one inside the car when tooling around at low revs / low throttle openings. But, get on the throttle a little bit, and it's clear this is no M5 or base C6. It takes a bit to get used to the quirky electronic throttle (it's not as smooth or direct as the C5's was, but it's still pretty good).. The power is incredible. GM increased the torque of the engine and the gearing by about the same amount, so each gear *feels* about the same as it did in the old car.. (except for 3rd, for some reason 3rd in this car feels incredible and pulls way harder than it should considering it goes to 125MPH). The difference is, although 2nd in the new Z pulls about the same as 2nd in the old Z... 2nd now is your 60-95mph racing gear, whereas on the old Z 2nd ended at 70 and the old car was in 3rd at that point. This car rockets from 60 to 95 in 2nd like nothing I've experienced.. today on the freeway I downshifted to 2nd at 65 and floored it from a roll and it actually barked the tires for a quick moment before approaching redline (95mph) within a couple seconds.. This is WITHOUT any clutch action. GM was very smart to put such tall gearing on the car -- it allows the engine's massive power and torque to be useable, rather than just leaving you sitting there spinning the tires.
One thing that just cracks me up about this car is how easy it is to make it loud, if you want. There's a fuse under the passenger side footwell labeled as a "spare" fuse, both in the owner's manual and in the fuse cover. Remove it and the exhaust flaps stay open, with no engine codes or anything. Under that mode, it is loud as hell and damn raw at low revs, and especially at 600RPM idle the entire cabin resonates. I ran like that for a few hours and switched it back.
All in all, this is the best car I've ever driven. They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), added a bunch of power, let it weigh the exact same, and only screwed up a couple small things here and there, and for the price and the performance, those things REALLY don't matter.
Gotta go for a drive...
Andi
09-30-2005, 11:31 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by Andi
Duke, can you please explain what you mean by freeway hop?
Some OEMs actually run a shock tuning schedule on LA freeway sections where the problem is most noticeable, but in the past ten years "pavement planning" and asphalt caps have reduced the the number of freeway sections where this is a problem.
Basically the feeling is that the car is moving up and down with the pavement height variations as if the suspension is not absorbing the expansion joint rise. The cure is to soften jounce damping in the frequency range around 1 Hz, which is the frequency between expansion joints at typical urban freeway cruising speed of 65-70 MPH.
It was particularly noticeable in the '01 Z06, but as I mentioned before, the '02 shock retuning considerably mitigated the phenomenon. I would imagine that GM covered this base on the new Z06.
Duke
09-30-2005, 11:40 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
"High speed bumps that would send my C5 Z06 yawing/bumpsteering, or maybe catching air and bouncing.... this car takes in stride without even getting its line upset. It actually soaks up bumps rather than launching off of them -- the shock valving on this car is incredible."
Interesting. R & T, fwiw, said that the Z06 tends to step out and lose a bif of composure when encountering bumps during a turn. They said the the F430 and Ford GT don't have this problem.
"They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), "
I know the new Z's brakes are incredible, but I didn't think the old Z's brakes were ****tty. Horrible bump steer suspension geometry? The old Z's suspension got lots of praise from driving enthusiasts, from what I gather. Ditto for suspension stability and damping. I thought my 02 handled great. The C5 Z06 was known for excellent handling. And this is even BETTER! Oh well, can't wait til next week, when I'll do my own assessment!
Interesting. R & T, fwiw, said that the Z06 tends to step out and lose a bif of composure when encountering bumps during a turn. They said the the F430 and Ford GT don't have this problem.
"They took the C5 Z06, fixed the bad quirks (****ty brakes including oversensitive ABS and sliding calipres, horrible bump steer suspension geometry, and questionable suspension stability and damping), "
I know the new Z's brakes are incredible, but I didn't think the old Z's brakes were ****tty. Horrible bump steer suspension geometry? The old Z's suspension got lots of praise from driving enthusiasts, from what I gather. Ditto for suspension stability and damping. I thought my 02 handled great. The C5 Z06 was known for excellent handling. And this is even BETTER! Oh well, can't wait til next week, when I'll do my own assessment!
10-01-2005, 12:35 AM
#40
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I cannot say that I feel a geat difference in stopping power between 04 and 06. Maybe there will be less fade at the track with the 06, but my 04 performs brilliantly at shedding speed at the last braking marker (or beyond) on Gingermans back straight at 100plus mph. Granted, I added Doug Rippie ducts for enhanced cooling but the biggest problem for me was boiling the DOT3 stock brake fluid, which I think will be a problem on the new Z as well. After adding ATE Superblue and the ducts, fade is not a problem for me, even with stock pads. And believe me when your heading toward a right angle turn and a guardrail at 103mph you want your brakes to work and work DAMN WELL! To me the power of the 04Z's stock brakes are breathtaking---literally. I have panic stopped numerous times with them and the G force is significant. The first time this happened I was traveling with my wife at about 65mph and a squirrel ran out in front of us, I jammed on the brakes and the next thing I know we were at a dead stop with room left over(for the squirrel) and I look at my wife and she's moaning "My God! I almost passed out." And how does her loving husband respond? Does he say, "Are you OK?" No. His enthusiam over his new Z overflows into:"Holy Crap! Isn't this thing incredible?!" 
:o 
Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian
:o Anyhow, I love both Z's. And of course my wife.
---Damian