Car drives like semi truck, help!
07-12-2014, 12:14 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Car drives like semi truck, help!
Hello, Corvette community! I have a 2006 z51, about 90k miles. About 10k miles ago I noticed that the car was starting to handle like crap. At speeds above 40, it would start wandering all over the road. It has made it very difficult to stay in my lane sometimes. If I change lanes into a rut, the rut really grabs my wheel, and very often triggers my active handling. I figured an alignment would fix it, but it did not. I replaced my front shocks with bilstein sports, pretty much no difference. I took it to the dealership at that point, and they said "It drives like any corvette should with that many miles on it." That made me really angry. I asked them "Well, what part should I replace so that it drives as if it doesn't have as many miles?" Hahaha... I already knew that was going to happen. So, I waited a while and got another alignment. No difference. I went to a different alignment shop and got it aligned there, no difference. Most of the people I talk to say some generic bullcrap like "When you have wide tires up front, they like to wander the road, it's normal." I don't know why I haven't noticed the problem then over the last 150,000 miles that I have driven corvettes with 245's up front. So, I got a set of michelin pilot super sports about 15k miles ago, and it was about 10k miles ago that I started having the problem. The wheels are balanced, the tread is good on the tires, new shocks, and it has a pretty dead on alignment. Back at the dealership, they ended up replacing the intermediate shaft for the steering column because of a click in the steering wheel. That actually helped it a little bit, but not much. I think that little bit of play in the wheel eccentuated the issue I was having. I've checked the inner and outer tie rods, sway bar end links, sway bar bushing, and control arm bushings. I don't know what to do! No shop seems to be able to figure it out. Here's my last ideas:
1. Steering rack bushings? On visual inspection, they seem fine. I would think that there would be an audible noise if they went bad, no?
2. My active handling could be messing up? I have gotten codes every 6 months or so that go away upon restarting the car. Also, sometimes when I set my cruise control, it feels like the car is applying brakes every once in a while while going uphill or downhill. I thought that it was my cruise control module, but maybe it's my active handling? When I turn active handling off, there is no clear difference with the problem.
3. Could it be that the michelin pilot super sports that everyone loves so much can be really ****** when not 100% brand new?
4. People have recommended checking the hubs, but I can't tell a difference in heat between the fronts after a long drive, they make no noise whatsoever, and there's no "hum."
5. Could there be a tiny bit of play in the steering rack or column? I can't say that my steering wheel is *100*% stiff with ZERO slack, but it's pretty darned close.
6. No one agrees with me on this, but it makes sense in my head. Maybe my sway bar bushing torque setting is off? Maybe the sway bar is able to travel more than it should, providing a sloppy steering feel?
7. After replacing all 4 shocks, there was a slight difference in the problem, but not enough for me to think that it had anything to do with the shocks. Is it possible that the leaf spring is bad, even with no visual damage to it? This one makes a lot of sense to me, but I don't know how to test it besides checking how much each side droops in comparison to the other side, and checking for peeling lamination.
This issue has very literally almost made me sell my car. I have zero confidence driving the car above 70mph, especially when road conditions are rough. What drove me to finally posting about it is I was beaten by a mustang cutting through traffic at higher speeds while turning on the highway on rough pavement. I simply did not have the confidence in the car to keep up with this mustang. Please, help me so that I can maintain the corvette reputation and not be beaten by mustangs!
Free punch and pie to anyone who can give me any insight!
1. Steering rack bushings? On visual inspection, they seem fine. I would think that there would be an audible noise if they went bad, no?
2. My active handling could be messing up? I have gotten codes every 6 months or so that go away upon restarting the car. Also, sometimes when I set my cruise control, it feels like the car is applying brakes every once in a while while going uphill or downhill. I thought that it was my cruise control module, but maybe it's my active handling? When I turn active handling off, there is no clear difference with the problem.
3. Could it be that the michelin pilot super sports that everyone loves so much can be really ****** when not 100% brand new?
4. People have recommended checking the hubs, but I can't tell a difference in heat between the fronts after a long drive, they make no noise whatsoever, and there's no "hum."
5. Could there be a tiny bit of play in the steering rack or column? I can't say that my steering wheel is *100*% stiff with ZERO slack, but it's pretty darned close.
6. No one agrees with me on this, but it makes sense in my head. Maybe my sway bar bushing torque setting is off? Maybe the sway bar is able to travel more than it should, providing a sloppy steering feel?
7. After replacing all 4 shocks, there was a slight difference in the problem, but not enough for me to think that it had anything to do with the shocks. Is it possible that the leaf spring is bad, even with no visual damage to it? This one makes a lot of sense to me, but I don't know how to test it besides checking how much each side droops in comparison to the other side, and checking for peeling lamination.
This issue has very literally almost made me sell my car. I have zero confidence driving the car above 70mph, especially when road conditions are rough. What drove me to finally posting about it is I was beaten by a mustang cutting through traffic at higher speeds while turning on the highway on rough pavement. I simply did not have the confidence in the car to keep up with this mustang. Please, help me so that I can maintain the corvette reputation and not be beaten by mustangs!
Free punch and pie to anyone who can give me any insight!
07-12-2014, 03:50 PM
#4
Team Owner
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA
Posts: 46,117
Received 2,487 Likes
on
1,949 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
You are somewhat contradicting yourself: in the early part, you say you replaced two front shocks w. Bilsteins. Later on, you say you replaced all four shocks. Which is it?
You seem to check a lot of things but not many seem to need replacing. At 90K miles, I'd think if you're wandering, and the car is washing out, I'd find a place that knows C6s or at least Corvettes other than the dealer who seems not to. Tacoma is near enough to Seattle to have lots of Corvette clubs. Why not call a prez of one of them and ask for a shop recommendation? Or, a dealer recommendation?
"bluedevil99" on here has gotten good service for his GS at Lee Johnson Chevy. Maybe talk to him.
"Netacoma2003" had good work done at Auburn's Corvettes of Auburn or he said he may try VetteWerks also in Auburn. Don't be surprised if it's something that's worn out, and may be a little costly to repair or replace.
And as a postscript, stop trying to keep up with cars that beat you cutting thru traffic because you'll just hurt your car, yourself or someone else. You really don't want to do any of those, do you? I mean, you have car problems now; you probably don't want any more problems. Good luck with it.
You seem to check a lot of things but not many seem to need replacing. At 90K miles, I'd think if you're wandering, and the car is washing out, I'd find a place that knows C6s or at least Corvettes other than the dealer who seems not to. Tacoma is near enough to Seattle to have lots of Corvette clubs. Why not call a prez of one of them and ask for a shop recommendation? Or, a dealer recommendation?
"bluedevil99" on here has gotten good service for his GS at Lee Johnson Chevy. Maybe talk to him.
"Netacoma2003" had good work done at Auburn's Corvettes of Auburn or he said he may try VetteWerks also in Auburn. Don't be surprised if it's something that's worn out, and may be a little costly to repair or replace.
And as a postscript, stop trying to keep up with cars that beat you cutting thru traffic because you'll just hurt your car, yourself or someone else. You really don't want to do any of those, do you? I mean, you have car problems now; you probably don't want any more problems. Good luck with it.
07-12-2014, 06:31 PM
#6
That seems weird.
No talking about street racing, just so you know.
I can tell you that I have an 08 Z51 with pretty much Pfadt everything, Z06 brakes and 275 tires up front. My car does not wander unless there are SERIOUS tramlines in the road, and I run Toyo R888's which grip better than the Super Sports (unless you are running Pilot Sport Cup tires) and I have no issues.
1. Check your tire pressures - what are they cold? I run 32 PSI COLD. I also use Nitrogen instead of plain old air.
2. Find a different dealer - AORoads gave you two good places to take your car. Use them. They WORK on Corvettes, not Cruze's or trucks and the occasional Camaro or Corvette.
3. What shocks did you end up replacing all four with? Originally you mentioned Bilstein Sports, so did you replace the rears later or did you replace all four?
4. I've actually had a monospring go bad, but that was on my old C4.
5. Let someone who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in vehicle dynamics drive the car, from one of the aforementioned shops.
6. Wong Motorsports may be able to help.
No talking about street racing, just so you know.
I can tell you that I have an 08 Z51 with pretty much Pfadt everything, Z06 brakes and 275 tires up front. My car does not wander unless there are SERIOUS tramlines in the road, and I run Toyo R888's which grip better than the Super Sports (unless you are running Pilot Sport Cup tires) and I have no issues.
1. Check your tire pressures - what are they cold? I run 32 PSI COLD. I also use Nitrogen instead of plain old air.
2. Find a different dealer - AORoads gave you two good places to take your car. Use them. They WORK on Corvettes, not Cruze's or trucks and the occasional Camaro or Corvette.
3. What shocks did you end up replacing all four with? Originally you mentioned Bilstein Sports, so did you replace the rears later or did you replace all four?
4. I've actually had a monospring go bad, but that was on my old C4.
5. Let someone who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in vehicle dynamics drive the car, from one of the aforementioned shops.
6. Wong Motorsports may be able to help.
07-12-2014, 11:29 PM
#7
Safety Car
That seems weird.
No talking about street racing, just so you know.
I can tell you that I have an 08 Z51 with pretty much Pfadt everything, Z06 brakes and 275 tires up front. My car does not wander unless there are SERIOUS tramlines in the road, and I run Toyo R888's which grip better than the Super Sports (unless you are running Pilot Sport Cup tires) and I have no issues.
1. Check your tire pressures - what are they cold? I run 32 PSI COLD. I also use Nitrogen instead of plain old air.
2. Find a different dealer - AORoads gave you two good places to take your car. Use them. They WORK on Corvettes, not Cruze's or trucks and the occasional Camaro or Corvette.
3. What shocks did you end up replacing all four with? Originally you mentioned Bilstein Sports, so did you replace the rears later or did you replace all four?
4. I've actually had a monospring go bad, but that was on my old C4.
5. Let someone who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in vehicle dynamics drive the car, from one of the aforementioned shops.
6. Wong Motorsports may be able to help.
No talking about street racing, just so you know.
I can tell you that I have an 08 Z51 with pretty much Pfadt everything, Z06 brakes and 275 tires up front. My car does not wander unless there are SERIOUS tramlines in the road, and I run Toyo R888's which grip better than the Super Sports (unless you are running Pilot Sport Cup tires) and I have no issues.
1. Check your tire pressures - what are they cold? I run 32 PSI COLD. I also use Nitrogen instead of plain old air.
2. Find a different dealer - AORoads gave you two good places to take your car. Use them. They WORK on Corvettes, not Cruze's or trucks and the occasional Camaro or Corvette.
3. What shocks did you end up replacing all four with? Originally you mentioned Bilstein Sports, so did you replace the rears later or did you replace all four?
4. I've actually had a monospring go bad, but that was on my old C4.
5. Let someone who is KNOWLEDGEABLE in vehicle dynamics drive the car, from one of the aforementioned shops.
6. Wong Motorsports may be able to help.
see Tomprobably a bad bushing or ball joints
07-13-2014, 01:45 AM
#8
Interesting.
I say find a member on here that will let you swap front wheels with to try out a different tire. I know this seems obvious but have you checked to see if they were mounted correctly? I had a shop mount my tire inside out before. Once you've done this you can cross the tires off the list and move on.
As far as the active handling, is it possible to pull the fuse related with that feature? I have no idea, but that would be a nice way to knock that out.
So forth and so on...cross them off one at a time.
Good luck.
I say find a member on here that will let you swap front wheels with to try out a different tire. I know this seems obvious but have you checked to see if they were mounted correctly? I had a shop mount my tire inside out before. Once you've done this you can cross the tires off the list and move on.
As far as the active handling, is it possible to pull the fuse related with that feature? I have no idea, but that would be a nice way to knock that out.
So forth and so on...cross them off one at a time.
Good luck.
07-13-2014, 08:33 PM
#9
Instructor
crappy handling
I had a 2000 C5 that did exactly what you're describing. Had fairly new rear tires and worn fronts. Once I replaced the front tires it was cured, You mentioned you have Michelins up front, but what's on the rear? Mismatched or unevenly worn tires would be my guess.
Luck,
John
Luck,
John
07-15-2014, 10:36 AM
#11
Safety Car
You say that all 4 shocks are new. What kind did you buy? Your problem sounds just like your shocks are no good. When shocks go bad the car can no longer keep the tires on the ground and that causes all kinds of drifting back and forth. I'd also verify that they are the right part no. for your car.
Good luck.
Good luck.
07-15-2014, 06:13 PM
#13
Hello, Corvette community! I have a 2006 z51, about 90k miles. About 10k miles ago I noticed that the car was starting to handle like crap. At speeds above 40, it would start wandering all over the road. It has made it very difficult to stay in my lane sometimes. If I change lanes into a rut, the rut really grabs my wheel, and very often triggers my active handling. I figured an alignment would fix it, but it did not. I replaced my front shocks with bilstein sports, pretty much no difference. I took it to the dealership at that point, and they said "It drives like any corvette should with that many miles on it." That made me really angry. I asked them "Well, what part should I replace so that it drives as if it doesn't have as many miles?" Hahaha... I already knew that was going to happen. So, I waited a while and got another alignment. No difference. I went to a different alignment shop and got it aligned there, no difference. Most of the people I talk to say some generic bullcrap like "When you have wide tires up front, they like to wander the road, it's normal." I don't know why I haven't noticed the problem then over the last 150,000 miles that I have driven corvettes with 245's up front. So, I got a set of michelin pilot super sports about 15k miles ago, and it was about 10k miles ago that I started having the problem. The wheels are balanced, the tread is good on the tires, new shocks, and it has a pretty dead on alignment. Back at the dealership, they ended up replacing the intermediate shaft for the steering column because of a click in the steering wheel. That actually helped it a little bit, but not much. I think that little bit of play in the wheel eccentuated the issue I was having. I've checked the inner and outer tie rods, sway bar end links, sway bar bushing, and control arm bushings. I don't know what to do! No shop seems to be able to figure it out. Here's my last ideas:
1. Steering rack bushings? On visual inspection, they seem fine. I would think that there would be an audible noise if they went bad, no?
2. My active handling could be messing up? I have gotten codes every 6 months or so that go away upon restarting the car. Also, sometimes when I set my cruise control, it feels like the car is applying brakes every once in a while while going uphill or downhill. I thought that it was my cruise control module, but maybe it's my active handling? When I turn active handling off, there is no clear difference with the problem.
3. Could it be that the michelin pilot super sports that everyone loves so much can be really ****** when not 100% brand new?
4. People have recommended checking the hubs, but I can't tell a difference in heat between the fronts after a long drive, they make no noise whatsoever, and there's no "hum."
5. Could there be a tiny bit of play in the steering rack or column? I can't say that my steering wheel is *100*% stiff with ZERO slack, but it's pretty darned close.
6. No one agrees with me on this, but it makes sense in my head. Maybe my sway bar bushing torque setting is off? Maybe the sway bar is able to travel more than it should, providing a sloppy steering feel?
7. After replacing all 4 shocks, there was a slight difference in the problem, but not enough for me to think that it had anything to do with the shocks. Is it possible that the leaf spring is bad, even with no visual damage to it? This one makes a lot of sense to me, but I don't know how to test it besides checking how much each side droops in comparison to the other side, and checking for peeling lamination.
This issue has very literally almost made me sell my car. I have zero confidence driving the car above 70mph, especially when road conditions are rough. What drove me to finally posting about it is I was beaten by a mustang cutting through traffic at higher speeds while turning on the highway on rough pavement. I simply did not have the confidence in the car to keep up with this mustang. Please, help me so that I can maintain the corvette reputation and not be beaten by mustangs!
Free punch and pie to anyone who can give me any insight!
1. Steering rack bushings? On visual inspection, they seem fine. I would think that there would be an audible noise if they went bad, no?
2. My active handling could be messing up? I have gotten codes every 6 months or so that go away upon restarting the car. Also, sometimes when I set my cruise control, it feels like the car is applying brakes every once in a while while going uphill or downhill. I thought that it was my cruise control module, but maybe it's my active handling? When I turn active handling off, there is no clear difference with the problem.
3. Could it be that the michelin pilot super sports that everyone loves so much can be really ****** when not 100% brand new?
4. People have recommended checking the hubs, but I can't tell a difference in heat between the fronts after a long drive, they make no noise whatsoever, and there's no "hum."
5. Could there be a tiny bit of play in the steering rack or column? I can't say that my steering wheel is *100*% stiff with ZERO slack, but it's pretty darned close.
6. No one agrees with me on this, but it makes sense in my head. Maybe my sway bar bushing torque setting is off? Maybe the sway bar is able to travel more than it should, providing a sloppy steering feel?
7. After replacing all 4 shocks, there was a slight difference in the problem, but not enough for me to think that it had anything to do with the shocks. Is it possible that the leaf spring is bad, even with no visual damage to it? This one makes a lot of sense to me, but I don't know how to test it besides checking how much each side droops in comparison to the other side, and checking for peeling lamination.
This issue has very literally almost made me sell my car. I have zero confidence driving the car above 70mph, especially when road conditions are rough. What drove me to finally posting about it is I was beaten by a mustang cutting through traffic at higher speeds while turning on the highway on rough pavement. I simply did not have the confidence in the car to keep up with this mustang. Please, help me so that I can maintain the corvette reputation and not be beaten by mustangs!
Free punch and pie to anyone who can give me any insight!
You mention starting at 40mph, when my front wheel bearing was bad the noise/vibration started at 40mph
You mention a "click" in the steering wheel. When my front wheel bearing was bad, anytime I turned the wheel all the way to the bad bearing side it clicked/popped. I had a terrible amount of play in the steering wheel. When coming to a stop the wheel would dance all over the place and felt extremely sloppy.
You mention almost selling the car because of the way it drives at 70mph. When my front wheel bearing was bad, I had the SAME EXACT reaction! I was tired of spending money chasing the problem because it didn't exhibit typical bad wheel bearing symptoms. 3 dealership visits later finally replaced the front bearings and all is good.
07-16-2014, 11:43 AM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
So, The front tires are 255s with 70% tread left. The rears are 285s with 70% tread left. The tires are mounted correctly, that was the very first thing I checked. I replaced all 4 of the shocks at once with bilstein sports. They were a noticeable improvement over the ones that I had replaced, but did nothing to remedy the problem. I keep my cold air pressure at 32 psi, which generally grows to 34-35 across all 4 when warm. I have verified those numbers with a separate air gauge, as well. I forgot to grab my alignment spec sheet before sitting down to write this, but basically all of them are good minus one tire's toe being slightly out.
As far as the wheel bearing goes, I don't believe it to be that. Both my front left and front right wheel bearing produce the same amount of heat after a drive. There is no vibration in the steering, or any noticeable difference in handling when turning to the left vs the right. There doesn't seem to be any play whatsoever with any of my wheels when trying to wiggle them with the car in the air.
Ultimately, I think it could be something in my steering rack. I had the car jacked up and had a friend move the steering wheel back and forth. I held onto the left and right wheel's outer tie rods at the same time. I could feel a clicking throughout both. However, the clicking isn't coming from any of the inner or outer tie rods. It sounds like it is coming from the central portion of the steering rack, perhaps the rack and pinion? I think that there might be something worn in there that is not keeping the wheels stiff at higher speeds. I am going to get the dealership to replace the rack as soon as there is an opening between all of these recalls.
Thanks for the insight guys, you're the reason owning a Corvette is best!
As far as the wheel bearing goes, I don't believe it to be that. Both my front left and front right wheel bearing produce the same amount of heat after a drive. There is no vibration in the steering, or any noticeable difference in handling when turning to the left vs the right. There doesn't seem to be any play whatsoever with any of my wheels when trying to wiggle them with the car in the air.
Ultimately, I think it could be something in my steering rack. I had the car jacked up and had a friend move the steering wheel back and forth. I held onto the left and right wheel's outer tie rods at the same time. I could feel a clicking throughout both. However, the clicking isn't coming from any of the inner or outer tie rods. It sounds like it is coming from the central portion of the steering rack, perhaps the rack and pinion? I think that there might be something worn in there that is not keeping the wheels stiff at higher speeds. I am going to get the dealership to replace the rack as soon as there is an opening between all of these recalls.
Thanks for the insight guys, you're the reason owning a Corvette is best!
07-17-2014, 07:03 AM
#15
one other thing - the original front spring on my car was missing the rubber pad on a height adjuster (these can rip off as the rubber wears) and I was having some high speed stability issues. After replacing it, the car was stable again. - it might not be the problem, but its pretty easy to check out
