Headers without a tune - worth it?
06-04-2013, 11:45 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Headers without a tune - worth it?
Car is a 2013 GS auto with only 400 miles. Was thinking about having a shop install a set of phat headers but keeping the stock tune to avoid warranty issues.
Would I be wasting my money without getting a tune?
Would I be wasting my money without getting a tune?
06-04-2013, 12:45 PM
#2
Tolero Apto Victum
Here are some good threads for you to take a look at - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...-tune-ls3.html http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-s...r-headers.html http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...s-no-tune.html
06-04-2013, 02:56 PM
#5
Supporting Vendor
I just did this very same thing on a friend's 2012 on the weekend and you will definitely need to have it tuned as it was running pretty lean afterwards compared to when it was stock.
06-04-2013, 04:07 PM
#7
Race Director
Kinda expensive to install a quality header system and not tune the engine for the addition.
The headers will give the same problems in warranty as having a tune, I would think anyway, or in the least raise some issues if a problem did arise. With the tune your engine will run better.
I did the tune on my 08 at 800 miles. I'm a big boy and it is my car paid for and I refuse to be held ransome by the manufacture warranty.
Not for everyone but that is how I roll, at least with the C6.
I suggest that you wait till the warranty is up before compromising your comfortable position.
Not disrespect intended...life is short enjoy it.
The headers will give the same problems in warranty as having a tune, I would think anyway, or in the least raise some issues if a problem did arise. With the tune your engine will run better.
I did the tune on my 08 at 800 miles. I'm a big boy and it is my car paid for and I refuse to be held ransome by the manufacture warranty.
Not for everyone but that is how I roll, at least with the C6.
I suggest that you wait till the warranty is up before compromising your comfortable position.
Not disrespect intended...life is short enjoy it.
Last edited by Boomer111; 06-04-2013 at 04:11 PM.
06-04-2013, 04:31 PM
#8
Tech Contributor
I also heard from several sources that you can get around the p0420/430 CEL by using spark plug foulers to get the O2's spaced out of the stream a bit.
06-04-2013, 05:19 PM
#9
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i am in a similiar situation. i also have a 2013 GS with only about 300 miles on it. I have added the Corsa X and sport rear exhaust as well as the vararam SC1R intake. I have budgeted another $5k in upgrades and i am leaning toward the headers and tune. I actually purchased the extended warranty on the vehicle. to me there are so many parts that can go wrong that are still covered and you will not lose your warranty claim. granted some expensive drive train and engine parts may be at risk for decline but electric and many other parts will be covered and they usually go first. it's sort of scary but you gotta pay to paly man. i am running a 2012 Jeep SRT8 with custom tune, headers, exhaust, CAI as well as some other mods. The superchargers have recently come out for the jeep but not ready to go that route yet or a cam on the vette. As a cam would be my choice as of now for the GS. Have you added the X pipe and rear exhaust and CAI yet for your Vette? you should do that first before headers in my opinion.
06-04-2013, 05:32 PM
#10
Tech Contributor
I must post this once a week I think...when you are considering which order to put on your mods, I think my thread might help.
There is more info on gears with dyno sheets in the thread. Gears are a great mod for manuals and won't cause warranty issues (except for the rear end obviously won't be under warranty anymore).
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ast-heads.html
There is more info on gears with dyno sheets in the thread. Gears are a great mod for manuals and won't cause warranty issues (except for the rear end obviously won't be under warranty anymore).
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-t...ast-heads.html
Decided yesterday to overlay all my mods since I've self tuned and dyno'ed each time I did major mods.
I found it interesting and thought I'd share.
See below. Each line represents progressive mods:
1. stock;
2. headers & tune (3.90 gears at same time);
3. G5x3 cam & .040 gaskets (11.4 compression);
4. FAST, and
5. used AFR 205 heads.
What strikes me is how dramatic the gains from headers and a tune were. Combined with the gears, it felt like a different car, and I got a full second + 10 mph in the 1/4 from those mods, from 12.9@108 to 11.8@118. The car was dead nuts reliable at this level.
The second take away is how all the remaining mods really only mattered from 4500 on. Thus I very seldom notice them on the street, only on the track. Not counting the cool sound of the cam.
Mods 3-5 did take off another second and added 10 mph - to 10.8@128. But it cost a lot more and I broke a diff and two transmissions on my way.
This graph shows what I've been saying for while; headers, tune and gears give you by far the best bang for the buck from idle to redline, the remaining mods only matter from 4500 on. Most street driving is below 3000 rpm...you do feel gears and headers even at that level.
Hope someone finds this useful as they decide upon mods.
Another item Tommy kindly reminded me of, is weight reduction.
If you are drag racing, you can expect .1 to .15 from putting skinny tires up front (saving 50 lbs+ of rotating weight) and taking out your passenger seat (53 lbs).
I found it interesting and thought I'd share.
See below. Each line represents progressive mods:
1. stock;
2. headers & tune (3.90 gears at same time);
3. G5x3 cam & .040 gaskets (11.4 compression);
4. FAST, and
5. used AFR 205 heads.
What strikes me is how dramatic the gains from headers and a tune were. Combined with the gears, it felt like a different car, and I got a full second + 10 mph in the 1/4 from those mods, from 12.9@108 to 11.8@118. The car was dead nuts reliable at this level.
The second take away is how all the remaining mods really only mattered from 4500 on. Thus I very seldom notice them on the street, only on the track. Not counting the cool sound of the cam.
Mods 3-5 did take off another second and added 10 mph - to 10.8@128. But it cost a lot more and I broke a diff and two transmissions on my way.
This graph shows what I've been saying for while; headers, tune and gears give you by far the best bang for the buck from idle to redline, the remaining mods only matter from 4500 on. Most street driving is below 3000 rpm...you do feel gears and headers even at that level.
Hope someone finds this useful as they decide upon mods.
Another item Tommy kindly reminded me of, is weight reduction.
If you are drag racing, you can expect .1 to .15 from putting skinny tires up front (saving 50 lbs+ of rotating weight) and taking out your passenger seat (53 lbs).
06-04-2013, 05:37 PM
#11
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I do a fair amount of tuning. Not pro but more than most.
On my LS3 car I street tuned it and drove a couple of months before hitting the dyno. Still found @ 20hp/15tq on the dyno. The stock tune is still fatter than I left it on the street.
Could have done the same at the track but don't get there often.
On my LS3 car I street tuned it and drove a couple of months before hitting the dyno. Still found @ 20hp/15tq on the dyno. The stock tune is still fatter than I left it on the street.
Could have done the same at the track but don't get there often.
06-04-2013, 05:51 PM
#12
Tech Contributor
I do a fair amount of tuning. Not pro but more than most.
On my LS3 car I street tuned it and drove a couple of months before hitting the dyno. Still found @ 20hp/15tq on the dyno. The stock tune is still fatter than I left it on the street.
Could have done the same at the track but don't get there often.
On my LS3 car I street tuned it and drove a couple of months before hitting the dyno. Still found @ 20hp/15tq on the dyno. The stock tune is still fatter than I left it on the street.
Could have done the same at the track but don't get there often.
06-04-2013, 06:14 PM
#14
Tolero Apto Victum
Had to replace one of mine... 
06-04-2013, 06:55 PM
#15
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Very nice Joe but you are at a much different point in time then I or i believe snowwolfe is. going just at your bolt on level back in time. how did you add mods? i have gone X pipe and rear first and then added the vararam. headers and tune would be next at the same time. i plan a dyno pre and post. leaning toward the Pfadt headers. what tuner do you recommend?
06-04-2013, 07:54 PM
#16
Tech Contributor
Very nice Joe but you are at a much different point in time then I or i believe snowwolfe is. going just at your bolt on level back in time. how did you add mods? i have gone X pipe and rear first and then added the vararam. headers and tune would be next at the same time. i plan a dyno pre and post. leaning toward the Pfadt headers. what tuner do you recommend?
You are in the right path. Headers are next after CAI.
06-05-2013, 03:59 PM
#17
Tolero Apto Victum
Very timely post Gabbiani, my '12 GS with Pfadt headers/cat'd x-pipe was street tuned for $150 (a generic tune for the LS3 w/ headers, then 10 mins of high RPM driving to verify there was no knock) by a very reputable So-Cal shop. They also say the same thing; bring it back in for a full multi-run dyno tune for another $400, & it should produce similar 15-20 HP/TQ gains.
I'm inclined to go do this, even though it's a full day's roundtrip, not as much for the increased HP/TQ, but to ensure the tune is spot-on & as safe as possible for the motor...do you have any thoughts/opinions @ this?
I'm inclined to go do this, even though it's a full day's roundtrip, not as much for the increased HP/TQ, but to ensure the tune is spot-on & as safe as possible for the motor...do you have any thoughts/opinions @ this?
