Exesivefire

Just as the title asks? I'm getting the car aligned in the next week (lowered) and have been reading the pfadt setup will give longer tire wear over the stock grand sport.

Any one have experience with both? Pros or cons to either I might have missed?

I'm sure this has been covered a million times, I guess I'm just looking for quick confirmation

vettenutchas

GS is an aggressive alignment along the lines of ZO6 so is for handling not tire life. Pfadt street alignment will defiantly improve tire life.

Exesivefire

How much does the handling suffer if at all with the pfadt setup? The only track time I see is the drag strip.

I do like taking corners when i can though

RicK T

I don't think "different" is the issue. "Specific and exact" without a plus/minus range is the issue. If you just communicate with your alignment tech what you want and you want to go by the Pfadt specs exactly I'm confident you will be happy with everything.

Note: The Pfadt Toe specs are shown as "negative" (-) which in their case means "toe in". That "may be" opposite what some technicians customarily say so just make it clear to your technician.

JCtx

Nope. The Z06 (FE4) and ZR1 (FE5) have A LOT more aggressive alignment specs than the GS (FE3). In fact, the GS and coupe have the same alignment specs (check GM specs).

OP, your car could have the exact Pdaft alignment specs you want, for all we know. The issue is what Rick T said: the tolerances. GS camber specs are -0.45+/- 0.60º; that's absolutely ridiculous. That means your car could have from +0.15 to -1.05º camber, and still be within freaking spec. Having said that, most GSs seem to be aligned towards the aggressive side of that spec. But most importantly, most GSs seem to have the right alingment from the factory, so before screwing with yours, make sure you have an alignment issue before even considering messing with it. Many folks have regretted doing that. They reported significantly handling degradation and excessive outward tire wear from decreasing camber. In addition, if you have the Gen2 tires, being asymmetric doesn't really tell you the real alignment story. But unless you see excessive inner tire wear, I wouldn't touch it. My Gen2s are wearing very evenly, with mostly 20% of the mileage hard cornering on mountain roads, and 80% slab. And car handles like a dream, so won't touch the alignment. A friend of mine with an '11 GS realigned the car to supposedly get more tire life, and got the opposite, plus crappy handling. He realigned it to factory specs, but says it doesn't feel like new. He forgot to ask the shop to record the existing figures before touching anything. He's pretty pissed that he messed with it to begin with. Good luck.

blkbrd69

The PFADT street specs work great.

The tolerances from the factory are what is messed up. I have seen cars with -.2 on one side and -1.4 on the other, with a bunch of negative toe and eaten up tires.

Toe is your enemy if you want good wear. You only want about 1/32"-1/16" total toe in on the front for the street. Can run a bunch of camber if toe is kept in check.

Exesivefire

I should probably clarify better...

I HAVE to get an alignment, I lowered it. So I'm just curious if I should go with the pfadt setup, or just let the shop do their thing. They did my g8 after I put it on coilovers so I have experience with them already.

Since it was brought up too, I have the garbage gen 1 tires.
I'd like them to last as long as possible, but I also know I'll probably swap em before they are totally gone.

SK360

Pfadt are within factory specs, just a tighter range

JCtx

Should have started with that . Just make sure your shop of choice has both the ability AND patience to do a precise alignment job, and you should be fine. And by 'precise' I mean pretty close, since it's almost impossible to do it perfectly. But not nearly as ridiculous as the stock tolerance. But ask in advance. Good luck.

Exesivefire

I did

Gearhead Jim

I use a little toe-in at the rear also, but we're splitting hairs there.

mikeCsix

I use pfadt's street/track alignment with minimal toe front and rear without problems. The tires seem to wear evenly across the tread so far. I've got 5mm left on all 4. The "junk" G1 tires worked well on the track at last year's hpde, this year I'm at a different track so the jury is still out.

One point to keep in mind, well a couple actually, we have rubber in the upper and lower control arms which makes it difficult for any alignment to remain good. The other is if you attend hpde events you might want to keep in mind the stock camber adjusters can slip - sometimes a lot. I installed pfadt's camber kit on my GS last year, had the alignment check prior to this years hpde season and the alignment was off - due to the rubber in the chassis components and maybe a different shop, regardless though the alignment was off.

Exesivefire

Don't plan on racing at any events, the car is my dd

I call the tires junk because they are. They won't balance and I'm sure are out of round. To me that makes a tire junk...

mikeCsix

Hpde isn't racing and mine is also a dd. If my tires were that bad, I'd replace them asap or find a shop that can balance them or troubleshoot the problem. The advanced shops can do a load force balance which seems to work well. Tires and brakes, your life rides on them.

J Christensen

Well then, just what are pfadt setup specs?

Exesivefire

Car is brand new, been to the dealer twice now. They insist its within spec "and a characteristic of the car"

Not much I can do there. However I do want my alignment in check before I shop for tires

mikeCsix

J, there is a chart for the various recommended alignments on the pfadt website.

gpotski

I did the Pfdat street spec alignment and definitely noted the car did not corner as sticky as my OEM alignment.
I haven't noticed any wear problems, but I almost want to go back to my old alignment because I really liked the original stickiness.

truth.b

I personally think it makes a world of difference if you drive the car alot and are in tune with how it behaves in different situations. I feel my alignment bridged the gap between going all out and just putting along to work. Here's a bit from a recent thread about my tire/alignment journey.

Link to thread: My GS Alignment @ 11k miles tires thread with wear pictures

mikeCsix

The pfadt street alignment IS the OEM alignment, just tighter specs. Check out the specs for the FE3 chassis vs pfadt street alignment. If you are driving conservatively and on the street only, with the camber in the street alignment the tire doesn't sit flat on the road so it won't feel as "sticky" at low cornering speeds. Camber really comes into play with higher cornering speeds and tire/wheel flex. If you have opportunity, look at any of the auto racing events on TV (if you can find them anymore). There is a sedan series running in Australia (the Chevy Cruz does quite well there) and look at the camber they have cranked in. The side walls of R compound tires are not as stiff as the runflats so there is more tire flexing - hence more camber to present as flat a tire footprint as possible when hard into a turn.

At least that is how I understand how this works.

Look closely at the side of your tire out near the tread. You'll see some scrub markers that look like this ^. Those indicate to me how far the tire is rolling when cornering. Under normal driving conditions you will never come close to seeing tire scrub any where close to the top of the arrow. At hpde, I have to drop tire pressures 4 to 5 psi (varies outside to inside for predominantly left or right hand turns at a track) then as the tires warm up the pressure comes back to about 30psi and when I am done for the round I check the ^'s to see where the tire is scrubbing, measure the pressures and balance them all to 30. I want the scrub marks at the top of the ^.

The point of all of this is I think the GY gen 1 Supercars are actually pretty decent tires when used correctly. They are certainly driveable to 7/10's - 8/10's of the car's capability. To find out what that level of performance is I highly suggest you attend an hpde event and get a ride with an instructor that can take the car to 7/10's to see what its like. NOWAY would I suggest driving a C-6 on the street at that level.