** New Product C6 Ram Air Kit available from Top Flight Reproductions **
04-08-2013, 01:50 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
** New Product C6 Ram Air Kit available from Top Flight Reproductions **
C6 Ram Air Kit
Our Ram Air intakes are all about improving airflow to your Corvette's engine. It's just a matter of superior design. Better airflow translates into a noticeable increase in power, acceleration and most importantly...bragging rights.
Any power modifications (i.e., cylinder heads, camshaft, headers, exhaust, programming, etc.) that increases horsepower output demand the higher airflow capacity of the Ram Air intake.
Back it up with test results. Airflow test Results for the C6 Corvette flowed 35% more airflow than the original factory intake system. The chassis dyno tests indicated an increase of 15 rwhp on an otherwise-stock LS2. The C6 Ls3 performance increased by 35 rwhp. All that by installing the Ram Air intake into a stock C6 coupe.
Factory
Ram Air Kit
Click Here to Buy
http://www.topflightrepro.com/corvet...formance.shtml
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A-A-Ron (12-12-2015)
04-09-2013, 11:45 PM
#5
Race Director
Humm.....
The factory stock dyno numbers seem low and the so called Ram Air numbers I saw personally on my car with a tune only!
The OP does not mention if the car was tuned after the so called Ram Air installation.
Not understanding why this claim can be made on this forum...and not think it would be scrutinized.
The factory stock dyno numbers seem low and the so called Ram Air numbers I saw personally on my car with a tune only!
The OP does not mention if the car was tuned after the so called Ram Air installation.
Not understanding why this claim can be made on this forum...and not think it would be scrutinized.
Last edited by Boomer111; 04-09-2013 at 11:48 PM.
04-10-2013, 10:29 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
I personally think the Top Flight Production folks are good people as I've been very satisfied with products I've purchased from them before. And I'm guessing they will probably respond.
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
04-10-2013, 12:39 PM
#9
Race Director
IT HAS BEEN ALMOST 48 hours since the initial post.
The crew is probably huddled in the corner trying to figure out how to squash out this blunder.
Or maybe hoping it will just go away..
No disrespect to the vendor other than what was somebody thinking by making this claim.
The crew is probably huddled in the corner trying to figure out how to squash out this blunder.
Or maybe hoping it will just go away..
No disrespect to the vendor other than what was somebody thinking by making this claim.
04-10-2013, 01:14 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I personally think the Top Flight Production folks are good people as I've been very satisfied with products I've purchased from them before. And I'm guessing they will probably respond.
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
A little friendly advice for Top Flight, this is a tough bunch and they will not hesitate to call you out if they see posted information that doesn't look right.
Last edited by jstewart; 04-10-2013 at 01:18 PM.
04-10-2013, 05:52 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Top Flight may be a good vendor. The problem I have is in calling the product a ram air system when it is in fact a cold air intake. Maybe they don't know the difference, but there is a big difference.
A little friendly advice for Top Flight, this is a tough bunch and they will not hesitate to call you out if they see posted information that doesn't look right.
A little friendly advice for Top Flight, this is a tough bunch and they will not hesitate to call you out if they see posted information that doesn't look right.
I personally think the Top Flight Production folks are good people as I've been very satisfied with products I've purchased from them before. And I'm guessing they will probably respond.
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
04-10-2013, 08:53 PM
#12
Race Director
Ok, good enough for me.
But seriously who is reviewing the write up for your products.
Better to nip a problem in the bud before it becomes an issue.
But seriously who is reviewing the write up for your products.
Better to nip a problem in the bud before it becomes an issue.
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tomtoro (10-12-2015)
04-10-2013, 11:34 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
04-11-2013, 01:55 AM
#14
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Peoria/Phoenix AZ
Posts: 16,555
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
"..most importantly...bragging rights", is the part that's confusing.
Performance is far more important than bragging, otherwise it's only BS.
Until there is real world proof (timeslips) showing it out performs all the others on the market, there is nothing to brag about.
Performance is far more important than bragging, otherwise it's only BS.
Until there is real world proof (timeslips) showing it out performs all the others on the market, there is nothing to brag about.
04-12-2013, 11:57 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hi folks, I have answers from the mfg to some of the questions/comments posted above. Now let's all play nice, if you have any questions I will do my best to get them answered, I'm not looking for a pi$$ing contest so if you disagree with anything that's posted that's fine, show me the proof, all I ask is we keep this civil and constructive.
The system takes air in from the lower front of the vehicle.
The “ram effect” is created by taking air in from the high pressure area in front of the air dam and radiator. Sorry we do not have any 1/4 mile times yet.
The dyno numbers were on a completely stock 2011 C6 with the LS3 engine. The car was not tuned after the intake installation.
The purpose of the dyno was to show that the performance gain of the intakes system in a “static” dyno scenario resulted in a significant result in RWHP.
Since the system is designed to be ram air induction system, all the design benefits become apparent during real world driving conditions (at the track, on the course, and on the street). The dyno runs before and after provide a baseline of performance gains over a completely stock system. The true results are actually more since the system is designed to work in a dynamic (moving) environment and not a static (dyno) environment.
The engine is really nothing more than a vacuum pump. By lowering the restrictions (filter, internal fluid (air) modeling, etc) and also providing “forced” air into the engine we increase the volumetric efficiency (VE) and allow the engine to produce more HP and torque at all speeds than it would otherwise.
The system takes air in from the lower front of the vehicle.
The “ram effect” is created by taking air in from the high pressure area in front of the air dam and radiator. Sorry we do not have any 1/4 mile times yet.
Humm.....
The factory stock dyno numbers seem low and the so called Ram Air numbers I saw personally on my car with a tune only!
The OP does not mention if the car was tuned after the so called Ram Air installation.
Not understanding why this claim can be made on this forum...and not think it would be scrutinized.
The factory stock dyno numbers seem low and the so called Ram Air numbers I saw personally on my car with a tune only!
The OP does not mention if the car was tuned after the so called Ram Air installation.
Not understanding why this claim can be made on this forum...and not think it would be scrutinized.
The dyno numbers were on a completely stock 2011 C6 with the LS3 engine. The car was not tuned after the intake installation.
The purpose of the dyno was to show that the performance gain of the intakes system in a “static” dyno scenario resulted in a significant result in RWHP.
I personally think the Top Flight Production folks are good people as I've been very satisfied with products I've purchased from them before. And I'm guessing they will probably respond.
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
Air induction is a tough one because you can't dyno a car when its moving (guess you could dyno it in wind tunnel), and then we all know that you could probably increase an engine's torque and hp by removing the air filtration altogether. But at what cost to the engine over time?
Since the system is designed to be ram air induction system, all the design benefits become apparent during real world driving conditions (at the track, on the course, and on the street). The dyno runs before and after provide a baseline of performance gains over a completely stock system. The true results are actually more since the system is designed to work in a dynamic (moving) environment and not a static (dyno) environment.
The engine is really nothing more than a vacuum pump. By lowering the restrictions (filter, internal fluid (air) modeling, etc) and also providing “forced” air into the engine we increase the volumetric efficiency (VE) and allow the engine to produce more HP and torque at all speeds than it would otherwise.
04-12-2013, 02:05 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
With all due respect every Corvette CAI I have seen takes air from the area just in front of the radiator. They all penetrate the shroud and either place the air filter in the intake duct above the penetration or like the BPP CAI I used to use Place the filter just below the penetration in the shroud. The chief benefit of this type of CAI is the cooler intake temperature (when the car is moving). There is not enough positive pressure in this area to qualify as a ram air system.
If your system qualifies as a ram air system then every other Mfg. making a CAI that takes cooler air from the area just ahead of the radiator and below the shroud should qualify as ram air intakes.
A real ram air system like the Vararam or the newer LG carbon fiber ram air takes air from directly at the front of the car via a duct that extends down from the shroud penetration and than turns forward directly into the incoming air flow. I have owned 4 motorcycles that the Mfg's listed as having ram air and all four used a front facing intake duct with the inlet placed directly into oncoming air flow. You may be selling a good CAI but it is defanately not a ram air system.
If your system qualifies as a ram air system then every other Mfg. making a CAI that takes cooler air from the area just ahead of the radiator and below the shroud should qualify as ram air intakes.
A real ram air system like the Vararam or the newer LG carbon fiber ram air takes air from directly at the front of the car via a duct that extends down from the shroud penetration and than turns forward directly into the incoming air flow. I have owned 4 motorcycles that the Mfg's listed as having ram air and all four used a front facing intake duct with the inlet placed directly into oncoming air flow. You may be selling a good CAI but it is defanately not a ram air system.
Last edited by jstewart; 04-12-2013 at 02:16 PM.
04-15-2013, 01:01 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
With all due respect every Corvette CAI I have seen takes air from the area just in front of the radiator. They all penetrate the shroud and either place the air filter in the intake duct above the penetration or like the BPP CAI I used to use Place the filter just below the penetration in the shroud. The chief benefit of this type of CAI is the cooler intake temperature (when the car is moving). There is not enough positive pressure in this area to qualify as a ram air system.
If your system qualifies as a ram air system then every other Mfg. making a CAI that takes cooler air from the area just ahead of the radiator and below the shroud should qualify as ram air intakes.
A real ram air system like the Vararam or the newer LG carbon fiber ram air takes air from directly at the front of the car via a duct that extends down from the shroud penetration and than turns forward directly into the incoming air flow. I have owned 4 motorcycles that the Mfg's listed as having ram air and all four used a front facing intake duct with the inlet placed directly into oncoming air flow. You may be selling a good CAI but it is defanately not a ram air system.
If your system qualifies as a ram air system then every other Mfg. making a CAI that takes cooler air from the area just ahead of the radiator and below the shroud should qualify as ram air intakes.
A real ram air system like the Vararam or the newer LG carbon fiber ram air takes air from directly at the front of the car via a duct that extends down from the shroud penetration and than turns forward directly into the incoming air flow. I have owned 4 motorcycles that the Mfg's listed as having ram air and all four used a front facing intake duct with the inlet placed directly into oncoming air flow. You may be selling a good CAI but it is defanately not a ram air system.
Thank you for your comments,
There are several different types of Cold Air Intake (CAI) systems. All systems (aftermarket) are designed to boost performance, some function by allowing a cooler air charge into the intake system. This is accomplished by taking air in from relatively stagnant area where turbulence and restrictions have slowed the air flow through the area. (an example of this is what you would see in a new Ford Mustang (behind the headlight) or as in several current truck CAI designs.
As the vehicle is moving forwards the air being displaced has to be moved. This is drag coefficient spoken (Cd) about in a vehicle is called relative frontal area. The air must be channeled around, over and under the vehicle. If you notice that most modern vehicles (Corvette, last gen Camaro, etc) all have no real radiator frontal area but are sleek and “pointed” this reduces drag but also creates a problem for engine cooling. The air pathways (air dams, etc) are designed to channel some of this higher pressure air (yes it is high pressure) up into and through the cooling system. The air in this area is pressurized since the vehicle is moving forward and the air becomes “stacked” up and restricted through the smaller opening (radiator).
Other systems may use a different method for gathering outside air and may also be ram air systems. Every bend, flex joint, total intake track length all cause drag and actually lower the benefit of the ram air effect. The most optimal is as straight as possible and as short as possible, and seals to prevent bleed loss (air loss). Our design does all of these.
Here is are some examples of a ram air system that does not have to be forward facing. In the first generation Camaros and Chevelles and other vehicles you could get cowl induction. This was a true ram air system that took air in from behind the engine. It actually took the high pressure air from the windscreen area and ducted it back into the engine. This worked and was very successful on many vehicles. The same principle was the same way older cars (before A/C) actually got air into the passenger compartment. This high pressure air from the windscreen would be ducted around. It is a ram air effect since there. So you can see that not all ram air systems have to have a duct or “mouth” in the actual flow stream to benefit from the ram air effect being produced by the forward motion of the car.
Each application is unique and often there are more than one way to achieve the same benefits. The goal must be efficiency and ease of achieving the most gain with the minimal amount of drag, interference, service issues, and functionality. Our background in science is physics and fluid dynamics and our passions are racing and aviation so we have spent time in insuring our product delivers the benefits (actually more) than we claim.
04-15-2013, 01:51 PM
#19
While I believe that when the car is moving at a decent speed, there will be increased hp gained from this type of system, I would question the dyno numbers because any fan blowing on the front of the car while strapped to a dyno cannot create the same effect as the car moving through the air. Looking at the LS3, it appears that drilling a few holes at the junction of the bottom of the shroud would allow outside air to enter the "box" the air filter sits in. Any reduction in intake temp is good, but I don't see a "ramming" effect which did exist on the back facing hood scoops back in the day on SS Chevelles and Trans Ams. I've heard nothing but good things about this vendor, so my question would be for the manufacturer and his claims. It looks to be another K&N Aircharger/Blackwing type setup, not a Vararam or Superbee type.
04-15-2013, 07:37 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
CAI or ram air system???????????????
We are not going to settle this. Obviously the distributor and MFG. of this system are convinced it is a ram air system as well as a CAI.Doesn't fit my definition of a true ram air system like the Vararam. I am sure there are plenty of folks that will buy the version they are pushing.