USAF-Vette

I've probably seen 50-100 oil analyses on Redline...the additive levels in their oils is very high. Keep in mind that although their oils can go for thousands of miles on the street, they blend their stuff for the racing crowd.

Rick

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Another tech article released by Joe Gibb today.

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...tech_sheet.pdf

Dirty Howie

Thanks Antohny


DH

Justasheet

What about hi-flow cats? Same thing? Subdriver from Amsoil want to chime in here?
Jeff

Gearhead Jim

Race use would be a whole 'nurther story, but for street use I'm getting worried. I've been using Mobil1 5W-30 in my car, and reports on CF indicate the typical Corvette is worn out after only 200,000-300,000 miles on that oil.
What to do?

jpee

Can someone please tell me if I'm looking for trouble with my oil, & oil change interval...

I have an 05 (A4) that is NOT a DD but I do drive it to the 1/4 mile Drag Strip about 2 x a month... While at the track I usually make between 3 and 8 runs ....depending if I win a round or not..

I'm using Mobil 1.. 5w-30 and I change it about every 3000-3500 miles

At the track I turn it to 6500 RPM but only for a few sec. I run in the 11 sec zone... I usually try to run it with the oil temp at about 180 deg.. & water temp at 150 deg. (I get my best ET with the water temp at 150 deg. I also make sure my A4 trans is 140 - 160 deg.

I also have to drive 100 miles "ONE WAY" to the track, race for the day (3-8 runs) then drive 100 miles back..

When I have put 3500 miles on the oil my DIC says 70% oil life remaining.

Should I be changing it more often ??? Tkx..

WHT

Despite what you read sometimes, there are sufficient high pressure additives in Mobil 1 for an engine in good condition. ZDDP (one of the several often discussed wear additives) is only used up when there is metal-to-metal contact within the engine (the oil film strength is exceeded); for example with extremely high valve spring pressures and/or incorrect cam/pushrod/lifter geometry. Modern synthetic oils have very high film strength which is one reason high pressure additives can be reduced. And, larger quantities of high pressure additives used in previous generation oils were being reduced long before problems with cats developed because higher concentrations increase combustion chamber deposits and produce other problems. Oil formulation is a careful balance to reduce total wear and you judge success by measuring engine wear after 200,000, 500,000 and 1,000,000 miles - and not simply by oil analysis.

You only need to change your oil more frequently to replenish high pressure additives if your engine has mechanical conditions causing increased wear. This gives you the best of both worlds - metal-to-metal contact protection without the negatives associated with greater levels of high pressure additives.

Justasheet

I just ordered some Amsoil Z-ROD 10w30 from Subdriver. I learn something new every day. Thanks Subdriver (Brad)
Jeff

sallen619

How does this oil report (post #16) compare to a Redline report?



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...long-term.html

C66 Racing

Sharing here as I caught this thread late.

Concur with both the thoughts above that higher ZDDP is needed in some applications and that modern oils have better fluid film strength than historic oil (though synthetics have been around for decades now).

But, you can get both:
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm)

This oil was designed for flat tappet cam engine which require higher ZDDP than allowed by the API for current spec oils (800 ppm max phosphorus). Though desiged for flat tappet cam engines, the good basestock and extra ZDDP helps in high demand applications such as those discussed in this thread. The Z-ROD is very similar to AMSOIL's Dominator Racing 10w30 I use at the track, but it has enough detergents for 3-5k miles (or one year whichever first) whereas I change the race oil about every 500 miles.

Jeff was concerned about the cats. My thoughts:
I personally think the concern about phosphorus damaging cats is a little overblown. The cats don't actually get "damaged", rather the catalytic conversion they are supposed to do is inhibited. Essentially the phosphorus "poisons" the cats. The EPA mandates emissions systems last 120k plus miles these days, so the current limit of 800 ppm impacts the cats over significantly more miles than most Vette owners will ever see. Another consideration is that the volatility of oils varies. Oils with low volatility (like AMSOIL) will lose less oil through the exhaust, thus less phosphorus will get carried to the cats. API SN spec allows up to 15% loss in a 1 hour test per ASTM D5800. In a 2008 test, AMSOIL's API spec 10w30 had 5.7% loss, well below the limit (Mobil 1 Extended Peformance 8.2% and Chevron Supreme 14.75% as comparison points from the same test). Additionally, though cats are not cheap, they are less expensive than engines. I'd use the appropriate oil for the engine and deal with the cats when (if) they didn't meet a state mandated test. Personally, if I had a modded street/track car, I'd use the Z-ROD. For strictly track, I use the Dominator Racing 10w30. Both independent of whether I had cats or not (and noting that SCCA T1 required cats until a few years ago).

HuskerBullet

I run AmsOil in the engine, trany, and rear-end and absolutely love it!

marine&hisvette

Royal purple fails?

C5Dream2004

Anthony - great info for us all thanks. I have been studding oils and trying to decide what to run - currently I have a engine being built. Ls3 418 with forged internals, dsc1 blower, Dp fuel system, rpm complete driveline ect.

The builder is telling me 20-50 the chart shows some conventional oil and also synthetic. The car is street only but driven hard - what's the best bet on this application ?.

C5Dream2004

ttt??

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Let's look a bit more in depth on why these 'micro brew' oils are so much better than say a normal Mobile 1.

Within the U.S. right now you may think you only have the choice of conventional and synthetic engine oils to choose from. While that is partially true the base stock that the oil is produced from can also radically change the properties of the oil itself, synthetic or not.

Within the Synthetic oils you have three classifications, Group 3, Group 4, and Group 5 oils. Group 3 oils are re-refined petroleum products and are the least expensive until recently they could not be classified as synthetic. Group 4 oils are PAO oils (Poly-Alpha-Olefine) and they are a synthesized petroleum product that has better protection against heat, oxidation, and better flow at low temperatures. The draw back to this oil is they need plenty of oil pressure to provide an effective protection film on the parts they protect. Both Group 3 and Group 4 oils are mineral based.

Lastly we have the Group 5 oils, which are Ester based (diester, polyoesters, and complex esters) which are vegetable and animal based

Red Line and Motul engine oils are currently the only two engine oils you can obtain that start from a Synthetic Ester base. This Ester base forms and electro-chemical bond with your engine components so there is an even less chance of metal to metal contact on cold start up or low oil pressure conditions. This bond is something that the Group 3 and Group 4 oils do not have because of their base material make up even if they have a higher level of ZDDP additives. The other big benefit of an Ester based oil is that they have very little in the way of deposits if they do burn under extreme conditions so there is no build up inside hot engine parts, and this is especially important for those running turbos on their cars.


Further reading on Esters
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...94#Post1252272
__________________

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Talk with him and see what he set it up for, clearance wise.

The issues with running 20w-50 is that you have to really be careful with it in cold climates and cold oil temps because they do not flow as well.

glenB

Animal based .... like dinosaurs ..

sallen619

I believe Mobil 0W-40 has a group 5 base...the rest of the oils in their line up do not...

bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=53232 7

glenB

link doesn't work

sallen619

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=532327