Halltech

We overnighted a new roto molded Halltech Super Bee MF103 to a customer in CO yesterday, who dynoed it vs. the Vararam on the same dyno same day, same terrible conditions, and here are the dynos he sent to us. I will let him explain the numbers, but 15.5 RWHP/3 lbs-ft torque gain over the VR pretty much speaks for itself.

Here is his email to me last night at Midnight:

LS1LT1

That's a notable gain, very nice.


"I will be taking both intake's to the Quarter Mile tomorrow with both programs to report the mph diffrence. I have a two step on the car to launch at 3100rpms and I shift dead on 7k every time so more to come."

I'm sure the 1/4 mile track results will correspond accordingly (the Halltech should be roughly a full tenth and trap almost 1mph higher?) as long as both units are given the same 'learn in' time at the track.

LEAVINU

Interesting.....

AORoads

The big issue is: is the car tuned? That is part of the advertisement for the new Halltech, isn't it---no tuning needed?

If the test car from CO is already tuned, how can one tell what it would have compared to Varraram in stock tune?

Halltech

That is impossible in this case, since this car has major mods onboard like the Liverpool MS Stage 3.

You have it right: The Super Bee MF103 has NO MAF recalibration requirements period. MAF recal, as simple as it is, it considered tuning

Tuning is OPTIONAL, which means if you want to tune your car with the SBMF103, you are going to get the benefits of tuning. It simply does not require MAF recal to avoid codes. The LTFT averages are better than stock.

Tuning has many aspects to it. From changing the MAF tables, which is still considered tuning by GM, to dialing in leaner open loop a/f ratios, to timing changes, torque management changes, fan on temps, IAT temps, Cat overtemp protection mod, IVT gain mod, COGS defeat, and many other changes that have to be tailored to each motor, application, fuel grade, and track or no track.

The gain without tuning is around 12 to 13 RWHP. Katech's engine dyno showed 15/14 in their testing.

The only intake we make that MUST have MAF transfer curve recalibration is the Super Bee CF112 Carbon version.

So the "big issue", is not an issue at all. Tuning was done since the car has the Livernois Stage 3 setup, and has had the VR onboard for some time, tuned.

Just swapping the intake over to the Halltech Super Bee, using the VR tune added 11 RWHP across the board.

Once they retuned the SBCF112, which obviously has different dynamics to the VR, the were handed back 15.5 RWHP. This dyno session was not intended to show the benefits on the stock Z06, we have dozens of those dynos from 14 months ago when the CF102 and FG102 were released as the no tuning version of the Super Bee Carbon

This was strickly a comparison of the Halltech to the VR, both tuned to their best. If you notice his email. They did not have time to go leaner than 12.2:1 on the SB, so proving his point, they quit for the night. He is at the track today.

Katech did our original dyno testing in Feb 2010 on the Killer Bee II and Super Bee vs. GM stock induction on their engine dyno. The same dyno cell they use to test the LS7 for GM. Their results are strickly based on airflow vs. airflow using Best Power for both the LS7 intake and the Halltech intake. No ECM involved at all.

http://www.corvettels7.com./Dynos/KatechDyno.pdf

Katech has always invited the intake manufacturers to send their best in to them for testing against stock.

Halltech

One last point. They did want our Super Bee MF107R, which is released but not in stock until Friday. This was the only day that had the dyno so I sent what we had in stock.

The Super Bee MF107R is a direct replacement for the CF112, and DOES need MAF recal tuning, so it would have otherwise been the candidate for this test. I told him I doubted there would be much difference between the two Super Bee intakes at that altitude.

He is on his way to the track. He stopped by the SuperFlow dyno in Denver and dynoed the car with the Super Bee MF103 onboard before leaving.

Ragtop 99

Why were uncorrected numbers used? Doesn't that leave weather as variable?

One other question: Was the Vararam new, or at least the filter recently cleaned?

Halltech

I am just quoting the PM from our customer. He has a copy of this thread on his Blackberry, and will report back today.

I know that the first dyno was done without correction factors at all to eliminate variations. In CO the correction factors are so high that it can sometimes make differences in power mods look even bigger than they are.

I was not a part or party to this dyno except to expedite the intake out Next Day Air.

Driver_WT

What are the expected power and torque gains on a stock ls3?

Thanks.

Halltech

15 at the flywheel, which interpolates to around 12 to 13 at the wheels.

xstang

I'd love to see the two intakes compared "at speed"....

I wouldn't expect the "Ram Air" intake to win a HP contest when the car isn't moving...

Halltech

It will be moving at the track today with both intakes on board.

Our Ram Air intake has the same benefits as the VR, but without the air being directed directly into the filter. We have two slots on the radiator deflector shield that allow ram air into the Beehive area, forcing cold air into the filter indirectly. We claim no ambient plus pressure since that is impossible at sub 200 mph speeds, and can only fill the vacuum side of the intake with air, which does relieve some of the vacuum signal and provide denser air. That is how VR and the Beehive actually work.

Even the Ferrari F1 engineers admit that their new Italia 458 only benefits 5 horsepower at 200+ mph from their F1 inspired ram air induction. Some of the motorcycles see ram air at 100 to 120, but the design is different. I use to design ram air systems for Pro-Stock motorcycles and designed many turbo motors back in the 90s.

Fissile

In Vararam's own tests, there was no difference between their intake and the stock intake on the dyno! However, there are differences when the car is moving (0.2s off the 1/4 mile).

This is an apples-to-oranges comparison and has no bearing on how they would compare on the road or track. I'll check back after the track test to see how they both fare.

Halltech

Ram air is real, contrary to many beliefs. Ours is not direct ram air, but indirect to the Beehive area. It will be interesting.

I cannot imagine how much trouble it is to swap these out at the track with having to remove the radiator deflector shield. The Beehive needs the sealed shroud below the filter to capture the NACA ducting airflow and the two ports cut out on the deflector shield.

Vette Air has a ram air scoop that they use with our race systems, that seems to work, but I stay away from the direct to filter setup due to other concerns.

This whole thing was not our idea, but rather a member of long standing here on the forum. He will likely report back today, unless he was at the track for two days.

Jim

thesubfloor

So am I the only person who noticed the dyno pulls were made using a different WOT AFR for each intake?

While the difference between 12.2 and 12.5 might not sound like much, I can assure you that with an LS7 it makes a VERY substantial difference in ETs and subsequently how much horsepower/torque the engine is making.

Where the LS2 definitely likes to run lean, that isn't true with the LS7. I've run my fastest times with only a 12.35 WOT AFR and a few months back when I decided to run only 91 octane one night, the car actually ran faster when I richened it up to 12.2. On several other occasions I've played around with different AFRs to see what the car liked and found that in some circumstances changing it by a single point (up or down) would result by as much as a full tenth difference in my ET.

As such, I don't think it's fair to say the Super Bee made more power than the VR since the AFRs were that different. I submit that the 12.5 AFR for the Vararam was actually too lean and had it been lowered down to the same 12.2 used with the Super Bee it, the VR quite likely would have made the same if not more power.

JUIC3D

Subbing for the drag strip comparison. I'm still on the fence about which intake for my bonestock ls3.

Halltech

The a/f ratio for the Super Bee runs best at 12.3 to 12.5 with 91 Octane depending on the total advance and mods of course, which differ from car to car, and as you know so does fuel quality.

The Vararam tune has been dialed in for some time on this car at 12.5:1, which makes best power in his case.

Before they did any further tuning, using the VR tune they just swapped intakes and the Super Bee a/f went to 13:1 and made 11 more RWHP across the board. Too lean of course for the fuel so they recalibrated air fuel.

When they richened up the mix targeting a commanded of 12.5, they hit 12.2:1 and made 15.5 RWHP and no knock retard, so they called it a night. Sean told me that they could have gone to the 12.5:1 air fuel ratio, but they made their point.

So between 12.2:1 and 13:1 there was a loss of 4.5 RWHP on the Super Bee resulting from knock retard. The VR made its best power combo at 12.5:1 with no knock retard.

Jim

Halltech

Here is what he has said so far in three short emails. He is crunched for time today, but will respond, and address the air fuel ratio question too.

So the results appear to be not conclusive, but a tie is fine for now.

Dyno: Halltech up 15.5 RWHP/3 lbs-ft torque over VR-both tuned
1/4 mile e.t. Halltech*
1/8 mile speed Halltech*
1/4 mile speed-tied (Halltech and VR swapped traps of .5 mph better back and forth.
Street manners: Subjective-Halltech

*Sean stated that he felt this was a result of a better 60' time on this pass

Both intakes were assembled to factory specs, tuned for best power and run 3 times each.

SpinMonster

No car running any aftermarket air flow mod should be running a stock tune. Once the parts are changed, it isnt saying a part is better because it makes more power with the wrong tune. A part should be judged by how it performs with the optimum tune.

FWIW, the build quality of the Halltech products are worth running over the vararam alone even if they had no difference in power.

Is the part going to require a tune? Once modded, you dont know what variables are in place and should expect that you at a minimum need to check to see how the combo is running from a safety standpoint. If its a bone stock car, it would likely run a different air cleaner assembly without tuning changes but be aware that the stock tune from GM is way too rich even on an unmodded car. If your concern is long term safety for your car, the stock tune will result in far more carbon deposits than an optimum tune. Yes, a car with a good tune will run better with less hot spots (detonation damage) than a stock tune, unmodded car.

StateofText

_____________________________
LOL. That's a good one and of course the A/F is different. I tried from 12 to 13 A/F to get the Maximum RWHP out of both intakes. I didnt just POP in On and say "WOW check it out the A/F changed!" In saying such the Halltech liked 12.2 the Vararam liked 12.5 "91 octain" The Vararam at 12.2 was a PIG and lost 5 more HP on the dyno. The Halltech was a PIG and started losing 3 to 4 rwhp at 12.5 same day same dyno.

The track was fun but I'm over changing intakes on the dyno and the track . It seems the 3 passes I made on the Bandimere track in Denver were about even in the total trap speed The 1/8 mile was close to 1 MPH faster with the Halltech but who really knows with the DA up here at 5800 above it was changing all night with the crappy weather coming.

Daily driving and around town feel: The Halltech has a better around town punch feel and doesn't have the small serge the Vararam does "IMHO" We will be running the same testes in Fl on a buddies car with the same HC mods that I have on this one. O and YES he's car is the same color so we shouldn't see any MPH loss from color difference

Sorry I couldn't give ya any HUGE differences...only the small ones for now.