gandalf1969

I have an LS7 w/T56 retrofitted into a '69 Camaro. I'll be getting a custom harness made (several places make them to order). I am running the stock E38 ECU (reprogrammed). I wish to use a C6 cluster which I have here and make the most use of all the lamps and gauges as possible (except airbags). Trouble is - I have no connectors or wiring for the back of the cluster. There is one built-in pigtail with a connector on it and then two additional connector ports.

Can anyone provide the information I need to put this together? Do I need any other control modules, fuses etc? I have most if not all the stock sensors on both the LS7 and the F-Body T56 itself.

Where can I source the wiring diagrams needed?
Any idea where I can get the necessary connectors or pigtails for the back of the cluster?

The people I am speaking to about the harness are saying they can provide the signal wires out of the ECU that I might need but they do not have experience with the actual cluster end of things.

Dumb question: Is the "PCM" a different name for the "ECU" or is it a different module altogether?

Any assistance appreciated,
G.

cya

Don't have answers for you, but would love to see pictures of your car

inthehunt2

Yes and no.

PCM = Powertrain Control Module
ECU = Engine Control Unit (used to be called an ECM - Engine Control Module).

PCM = ECU + transmission control (and other controls).

ECU is a flashback to the 80's when the engine controller only controlled rudimentary engine function (ie. before traction control, transmission control, torque demand concepts, etc.)

PCM is the latest engine control module that does way more than the 1980's ECU.

Hope this helps to at least answer one of your questions.

Streetk14

Sounds like a cool project. I just sold my Magnacharged LS1/T56 '67 Camaro RS, and I do miss it. Nothing better than modern power and suspension in one of the best looking body styles ever made.

Onto your cluster problem..... That might be a tough think to integrate. The reason I say that is that the gauge functions and signal communication are likely on a CAN (controller area network) bus. Bus wires can be usually identified as a pair of twisted wires. Data is transferred between control modules via these bus lines. This type of system reduces the amount of wiring and allows faster communication.

Anyway, I'm assuming the instrument cluster in the C6 is on the powertrain CAN bus and possibly a body bus. This makes it a little more complicated to retrofit into an older car. I'm assuming that the engine sensors (coolant/oil temp, etc.) are hardwired to the PCM, which transmits this data to the instrument cluster via CAN bus. This is the way modern cars work.

My suggestion for you would be to get a factory C6 dash harness and use what you need. You will need all the correct wiring diagrams to do this, of course. You will need to figure out where all the signals you need come from on a C6, and find a way to trick it to work in your '69. You still might not be able to get everything to function properly. Hard for me to say.

For what its worth, I just went with a 5" Autometer Speedometer and tach in my factory dash pod. I went with the electric speedo which was a piece of cake to install and calibrate. It was dead accurate in that car as well. Good luck with the project,

Andy


PS. here are a few pics of the one I built

Streetk14

ECM, PCM, ECU, all the same thing. Just different terminology, that's all. Different manufacturers use varying terms as well. All the German manufacturers refer to their engine control modules as a "DME" (digital motor electronics)

A modern PCM still only controls the engine and its functions. There are separate control modules for the ABS/traction control, automatic transmission, etc. There are close to 60 different control modules that handle various vehicle functions in a new BMW 7-series, for example. They are all linked through various bus systems (that I mentioned in my first post).

Call them what you want, really. I have so many acronyms memorized that it makes my head spin

'VETTE PHASE

Does any of this help?

'VETTE PHASE

Some of the acronyms are for like devices, but the ECM is the Engine Control Module and controls the engine only. The TCM is the Transmission Control Module and controls the tranny only ('05-present).

Now, a PCM ('97-'04) is the Powertrain Control Module and it is a single module that controls both the engine and transmission.

The can-bus or high speed network on the Corvette includes 6 modules in a specific order:

BCM body control module
VCIM onstar (if equipped)
ESC electronic suspension control (if equipped with F55)
TCM transmission control module
EBCM electronic brake control module
ECM engine control module

Streetk14

So you are saying that 97-04 GM vehicles have 1 single control module that is both a ECM and a TCM in one unit, and they call this a PCM? I've never heard of this, but I only play with GM stuff at home for fun and all my cars have been 6-speed manuals (no TCM). Or is this just for the C5 you are referring to? I could have sworn that when I was looking at used LS1 F-body engines, the auto cars had a stand-alone TCM. If not, I guess I can say I learn something new every day.

cya

StreetK14,

Sweet ride bro, too bad you sold it : (

cya

'VETTE PHASE

Yes, as far as I know, this is the case for about all GM vehicles (Buick, Saturn, Pontiac, etc.) from the beginning of OBDII (1996). All the C5s had one computer for both. It wasn't until the '05 C6 that they used two separate modules.

Streetk14

Thanks, I was really happy with how it turned out. It dyno'd at 543 RWHP and 516 RWTQ. Had an Art Morrison front clip that used C6 aluminum front suspension/brakes. Winston Cup-style truckarm rear suspension. 18" Fikse FM5's (9.5" & 11") with 275/35/18 & 335/30/18 Pilot Sports. It was a monster....

I decided it was time to move on and make some sacrifices to become a home owner while the market is right. I sold the '67 you see above, as well as my 2008 M3 (V8). I got my '08 Z51 coupe to replace these two as my single performance car/toy for now, and I got an economical car to drive to work and such. While I really miss the beauty and power of the Camaro and the luxury and high-winding V8 while driving the M3 every day, the C6 is a serious car in its own right and I really have no regrets.

P.S. I also have a 1968 Camaro that is currently in the works. While it will be a long time in the making, it should be as nice as my silver one when it is done.

Andy

cya

Hey Andy,

I had a 68 and sold it to my cousin in LA he still has it but needs work. Do you know Jay Duff he's used to be in Santa Barbra, he's a speed freak with many toys and my brother inlaw.

I have a 68 stingray with power windows, brakes, steering, a/c,. It presently has a 383 with supporting mods but plan on throwing my c6 suspension, engine, brakes when I get tired of my c6 or it gets too many miles. That's a project I'll be hitting forum members for input and advice.

Keep my posted on your 68 and have fun with your toys n stay safe.

Javier

gandalf1969

Thanks for all the helpful info guys!

Andy - I'm diggin' the under-hood shot - nice car and real clean look.

I'm intentionally trying to avoid the aftermarket individual gauge look (which I have in another project). Definitely functional but I want to keep this one from looking like a race-car. I figure the 200mph speedo in the stock C6 cluster was a nice touch and allows me to keep a good eye on what's going on under the hood with the "information center" if I can get that working. The HUD was a nice idea but thought I was biting off more than I could chew for now. Maybe if I get all this working ok I can look into that as an addition.

I got a killer deal on a full 2002 Camaro dash with everything (including cluster which I won't be using) and all controls. It is in mint condition and the guy was real good about keeping everything together I might need including pigtails long enough to use from all the controls like a/c etc.

Some harness guys contacted me and mentioned pulling the additional signals I would need from the ECU <insert name of choice here> would be easy when they built the engine harness. No one fessed up to knowing anything about the cluster end of the harness yet though.

G.

gandalf1969

'Vette-Phase - thanks for all the diagrams. Those will be invaluable if they match the C6 cluster I have. Thank you very much for those! I have to believe there's a match there somewhere unless I end up needing signals from other sources/modules in the car which I don't have (apart from the main ECU).

G.