CAM Differences
04-10-2006, 08:21 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
CAM Differences
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
Ive narrowed it down to three. Can anyone tell me what i can expect from each one of these? (Range of power, low end loss, high end gain, etc.) Current mods are headers, intake, and exhaust.
Thanks!
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
Ive narrowed it down to three. Can anyone tell me what i can expect from each one of these? (Range of power, low end loss, high end gain, etc.) Current mods are headers, intake, and exhaust.
Thanks!
04-10-2006, 10:12 AM
#3
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Member Since: Oct 2005
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Hey Valdeztke,
Sorry for the thread interruption. I have a question for you. I understand cam properties (I think) and their importance (lift, duration, overlap, etc..) but I do not know how to read the cam numbers or how they apply to real world performance (hp/tq). Can you point me in the direction of a resource so I can learn or study?
Thanks,
J
Sorry for the thread interruption. I have a question for you. I understand cam properties (I think) and their importance (lift, duration, overlap, etc..) but I do not know how to read the cam numbers or how they apply to real world performance (hp/tq). Can you point me in the direction of a resource so I can learn or study?
Thanks,
J
04-10-2006, 10:16 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Im just about in the same boat and that is why i posted this. I see all the numbers and know what they mean...but I dont know what they translate into on the ground when applied to an LS2.
I just hate to lose TOO much low end from a cam.
I just hate to lose TOO much low end from a cam.
04-10-2006, 10:16 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by valdeztke
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
Ive narrowed it down to three.
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
Ive narrowed it down to three.
04-10-2006, 10:47 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by valdeztke
I just hate to lose TOO much low end from a cam.
My personal recommendation... if this car is used on the street at all, do NOT go too crazy with the cam, because you will really miss the low-end torque. The car will not be fun to drive unless you totally wind it out on every acceleration... this only beats the heck out of the car... it'll get old fast.
The great beauty of the stock LS2 is that it provides a ton of low-end torque which makes for fun and thrills at ALL rpms, and still provides more than enough top-end horsepower. A bigger cam will increase the thrill at top-end and erase all the thrill at the lower-end. For racing, the big cam scenario is fine... but will you be racing ONLY?
It's really a personal choice and totally depends on how you will use the car most. Again, if the car will spend a good deal of time on the street, I'd say leave the stock cam in there, or if anything, swap in a cam that is only slightly larger than stock... the smallest step up possible.
Again, all subjective... but to me personally, the greatest trait of the LS2 is the wide torque band as it comes from the factory... I do use my car on the street 90% of the time.
As for what the cam spec numbers mean with respect to loss of low end, etc... there is indeed theory behind it all, and once I see the stock cam specs I will touch on it a little... but the fact of the matter, you can study the specs all you want, but this will not necesssarily give you good insight into how a particular cam will work in a particular engine. The only way to know is to try it.
In general, for STREET use, I like to keep the lobe separation on the wide side which ultimately means less overlap per duration... usually makes for a slightly wider less peaky torque band, plus slightly better economy and less emissions. However, if your ONLY goal is to obtain the highest peak HP figure possible, the bigger overlap cam might be what you want... but this is not a wise goal unless you race ONLY.
The most important question here is, how will you use the car?
04-10-2006, 11:35 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
207/217 .525/.525 116 LSA - stock (thanks MKS!)
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
--------------------------------
The stock cam does have a somewhat wide lobe separation as I expected... which is generally what you want for all-purpose street use. Note that the second cam in the list above also has a similar "wide" lobe separation... and seems to be the smallest step upwards in terms of duration too. If you really need to swap cams, I'd go with the second one on the list above, not bigger.
The 214/230 cam does have a decent amount of extra lift, so you'll need to pay attention to your valvetrain, make sure everything will fit properly. Higher lift means more valvetrain stress and wear too, so... not the best thing if you want everything to last a long time. Again, the factory cam is best for all-purpose use and longevity. Chevy actually does know what they're doing.
The third and fourth cams in the list above appear to be considerably "wilder"... much larger durations and tighter lobe separations, thus much more overlap. From general experience with other cars, I would never even remotely consider cams like these if the car was to be used on the street at all. These should be considered "race only" in my opinion... especially the 230/236.
Again, all subjective. What I would consider inadequate low-end torque might be ok for someone else who is used to driving small engine cars (like little rice buckets). Ever drive an old 455 GM musclecar though? Orgasms don't come close. The stock C6 captures a lot of that old big-block feeling and behavior, which is why I love the stock C6 so much.
To me, American muscle is DEFINED by the big wide torque band... so I can't see killing that torque band. I can drive my car all day long and have LOADS of fun while hardly ever winding above 3,500 rpm... it's a beautiful thing. You will miss it when it's gone.
I'd say the cams third and fourth on the list above would totally kill all the sub-3,500 rpm fun. The second cam on the list... not sure, will hurt the low-end to a degree, but maybe not too bad. Try to get more info from someone who currently has this cam installed.
Best of luck
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
--------------------------------
The stock cam does have a somewhat wide lobe separation as I expected... which is generally what you want for all-purpose street use. Note that the second cam in the list above also has a similar "wide" lobe separation... and seems to be the smallest step upwards in terms of duration too. If you really need to swap cams, I'd go with the second one on the list above, not bigger.
The 214/230 cam does have a decent amount of extra lift, so you'll need to pay attention to your valvetrain, make sure everything will fit properly. Higher lift means more valvetrain stress and wear too, so... not the best thing if you want everything to last a long time. Again, the factory cam is best for all-purpose use and longevity. Chevy actually does know what they're doing.
The third and fourth cams in the list above appear to be considerably "wilder"... much larger durations and tighter lobe separations, thus much more overlap. From general experience with other cars, I would never even remotely consider cams like these if the car was to be used on the street at all. These should be considered "race only" in my opinion... especially the 230/236.
Again, all subjective. What I would consider inadequate low-end torque might be ok for someone else who is used to driving small engine cars (like little rice buckets). Ever drive an old 455 GM musclecar though? Orgasms don't come close. The stock C6 captures a lot of that old big-block feeling and behavior, which is why I love the stock C6 so much.
To me, American muscle is DEFINED by the big wide torque band... so I can't see killing that torque band. I can drive my car all day long and have LOADS of fun while hardly ever winding above 3,500 rpm... it's a beautiful thing. You will miss it when it's gone.
I'd say the cams third and fourth on the list above would totally kill all the sub-3,500 rpm fun. The second cam on the list... not sure, will hurt the low-end to a degree, but maybe not too bad. Try to get more info from someone who currently has this cam installed.
Best of luck
04-10-2006, 12:20 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by valdeztke
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA
230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA
224/227 .563/.569 114 LSA
#2 Maybe, but there are updated grinds close to it, you may want to look at.
#3 You have the numbers reversed I believe, that is a reverse split, Thunder Racing?? I like reverse split cams, but most do not. Probably not a good choice if you ever plan on doing heads. If you want to go with a revers split check out the X1 from MTI, that cam sounds mean, I ran it in my Z06, but I swapped it out when I got heads, lots of low end torque with the X1.
Dave
04-10-2006, 12:30 PM
#10
Safety Car
In general lift doesnt hurt driveability in the same way increased duration and overlap do. I would stick to 114 or more on the LSA. Even a small cam at 112 will give a good lope. Fine if your looking for it but if your not then avoid these. While not huge those lifts are pretty substantial (except for #3) and I would not expect life of the motor springs with them. My suggestion would be to call someone like A&A and pick their brains. They have installed a lot of cams and can give you a good idea of exactly what kind of lope, idle rpm, and driveablility issues (if any) you can expect as well as other needed drivetrain mods and life expectency on the springs.
04-10-2006, 12:32 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Two questions
" Does a reverse split offer more trq down low?"
Vet "what is your opinion of just holding out for a maggie SC? I dont ever hardly drive my car above 70mph...Hell I dont think its ever seen 100mph! ...would you say a SC would be the best for me? I drive around town (35mph) and thats about it.
" Does a reverse split offer more trq down low?"
Vet "what is your opinion of just holding out for a maggie SC? I dont ever hardly drive my car above 70mph...Hell I dont think its ever seen 100mph! ...would you say a SC would be the best for me? I drive around town (35mph) and thats about it.
04-10-2006, 12:33 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by crabman
In general lift doesnt hurt driveability in the same way increased duration and overlap do. I would stick to 114 or more on the LSA. Even a small cam at 112 will give a good lope. Fine if your looking for it but if your not then avoid these. While not huge those lifts are pretty substantial (except for #3) and I would not expect life of the motor springs with them. My suggestion would be to call someone like A&A and pick their brains. They have installed a lot of cams and can give you a good idea of exactly what kind of lope, idle rpm, and driveablility issues (if any) you can expect as well as other needed drivetrain mods and life expectency on the springs.
I'll just wait to see if they will post something ..Maybe Andy is having a slow Monday
04-10-2006, 12:47 PM
#13
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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Originally Posted by valdeztke
Two questions
" Does a reverse split offer more trq down low?"
" Does a reverse split offer more trq down low?"
Vet "what is your opinion of just holding out for a maggie SC? I dont ever hardly drive my car above 70mph...Hell I dont think its ever seen 100mph! ...would you say a SC would be the best for me? I drive around town (35mph) and thats about it.
F13 230/232 595/585 114 LSA
LG2 224/224 580/580 114 LSA
or something close.
04-10-2006, 01:44 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by valdeztke
Vet, what is your opinion of just holding out for a maggie SC? I dont ever hardly drive my car above 70mph... I drive around town (35mph) and thats about it.
Originally Posted by CYA-Vett
214/230 .601/.578 117 LSA - No way, too small. Why kill your warranty for that?
I just remembered that "C6 Tech" is mostly comprised of guys that are into hardcore racing, so my "street" advise does not go over too well here. Again, it really depends on the goal and what you're willing to sacrifice... personal choice.
I drive my car everywhere, all conditions, all weather, all year long, high-speed, heavy traffic, you name it... this is why I appreciate the stock cam.
A 230+ duration 112 LSA ultra lopey cam may be the coolest sounding thing in the universe and may make very impressive peak HP numbers, but at a considerable sacrifice to all-purpose street behavior, low-end torque etc. Take your pick.Best of luck!
04-10-2006, 01:52 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I am learning so much here.
I just want something quick on the street, sounds great, dont care about top speed high end pulls etc.
I like TRQ and lots of it ...but I know that can be a problem with Runflats and a stock rear end.
Can someone provide more information on a split reverse cam?
I just want something quick on the street, sounds great, dont care about top speed high end pulls etc.
I like TRQ and lots of it ...but I know that can be a problem with Runflats and a stock rear end.
Can someone provide more information on a split reverse cam?
04-10-2006, 02:24 PM
#17
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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Road race cam info: http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422520
Here is a cam guid from LS1tech.com
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327734
to start off
read the rest at the link above. It is a LONNNNGGGG read but excellent information.
You you finish reading you WILL FELL LIKE THIS
and 
all at once.
Enjoy
Here is a cam guid from LS1tech.com
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327734
to start off
Originally Posted by jrp on LS1tech.com
The LS1 like any other engine works as a system, treat is as one, you want to get as much air in and out as you can. The plethora of mods out there will allow you to do that. Things to consider before you start on your modding process:
1) There is no "best" part when it comes to mods.
2) When you want to start modding your car come up with a tangible plan.
3) Do not go into modding blindly; you will end up wasting money, time, and effort.
4) Do your research before you buy mods.
5) Find out your states/counties emissions requirements before choosing mods
6) Be realistic on what your going to do with your car
7) Usable power under the curve is what you want to shoot for, do not just look at peak gains
8) Work within your budget
9) If your are still under warranty Contact your own dealership and discuss your warranty and modding issues.
(Credit given where applicable. Info/pics taken from personal experience, around the Internet, and ls1tech/ls2.com.) Special thanks to the guys on ls1tech (J-Rod, JMX, ect)
- Get a basic understanding of cams before purchasing. It’ll also help you understand the info/advice that is given on the boards.
- ALL gains are relative to your own setup
1) For example if you installed S2 heads and a tsp231 cam and only put down 390rwhp tuned don’t fret if you started with a base of 290rwhp.
- When researching cams look at the average gains. Don’t look at the highest gains you see (395rwhp with say and ls6 cam) and expect to get the same results when the average is 360-380rwhp depending on setup
- Can a cam be your first mod; yes. Should a cam be your first mod; NO.
1) Cams need to breath, that means a complete intake and exhaust setup. The bigger the cam the more prevalent those mods become.
2) A4 guys; match your stall and cam appropriately
- Don’t be afraid of older or smaller cams (T1/B1, tr220, comps 218, ect). They might not use the latest and greatest lobe technology or break speed records but they are proven cams and are great for the guys looking for 400 > * rwhp cam only.
- Take Internet reviews of cams with a grain of salt and use them as reference only. Contact your local fbody club or ask around your local regional forum and find as many guys who have cams as you can. Hear and drive/ride along with as many different cam setups as you can. The reason for this is everyone has there own idea of what streetable is since that is a RELATIVE term. Decide on your own what streetable is to you
- Don’t let someone talk you into a cam if it doesn’t meet your requirements and fit your specific applications and goals.
- Keep in mind there is more then one way to make the same amount of power
- If you have the sniffer for emissions either go with the cam of your choice and pray you find a good enough tuner and have luck on your side or choose a smog friendly grind. Keep the overlap in check, the more negative overlap @ .050 the easier it will be to pass. Here is Ed's (Ed Vert's) Cali smog sheet from his tr224 114 which has negative 4* overlap @ .050.
- When buying a used cam ask for the cam card and/or serial numbers. Take that serial number and email or PM the company or board representative with that serial number. They will be able to tell you if in fact it is one of there grinds and if it’s the one you had planned on purchasing. That is the only way short of having the cam spec’d on a cam doctor to know exactly what cam you are buying. Here's the serial number from my old TR230.
- Don’t get caught up in peak HP. These are ls1 boards not Honda boards . Under the curve power is where it’s at.
1) There is no "best" part when it comes to mods.
2) When you want to start modding your car come up with a tangible plan.
3) Do not go into modding blindly; you will end up wasting money, time, and effort.
4) Do your research before you buy mods.
5) Find out your states/counties emissions requirements before choosing mods
6) Be realistic on what your going to do with your car
7) Usable power under the curve is what you want to shoot for, do not just look at peak gains
8) Work within your budget
9) If your are still under warranty Contact your own dealership and discuss your warranty and modding issues.
(Credit given where applicable. Info/pics taken from personal experience, around the Internet, and ls1tech/ls2.com.) Special thanks to the guys on ls1tech (J-Rod, JMX, ect)
- Get a basic understanding of cams before purchasing. It’ll also help you understand the info/advice that is given on the boards.
- ALL gains are relative to your own setup
1) For example if you installed S2 heads and a tsp231 cam and only put down 390rwhp tuned don’t fret if you started with a base of 290rwhp.
- When researching cams look at the average gains. Don’t look at the highest gains you see (395rwhp with say and ls6 cam) and expect to get the same results when the average is 360-380rwhp depending on setup
- Can a cam be your first mod; yes. Should a cam be your first mod; NO.
1) Cams need to breath, that means a complete intake and exhaust setup. The bigger the cam the more prevalent those mods become.
2) A4 guys; match your stall and cam appropriately
- Don’t be afraid of older or smaller cams (T1/B1, tr220, comps 218, ect). They might not use the latest and greatest lobe technology or break speed records but they are proven cams and are great for the guys looking for 400 > * rwhp cam only.
- Take Internet reviews of cams with a grain of salt and use them as reference only. Contact your local fbody club or ask around your local regional forum and find as many guys who have cams as you can. Hear and drive/ride along with as many different cam setups as you can. The reason for this is everyone has there own idea of what streetable is since that is a RELATIVE term. Decide on your own what streetable is to you
- Don’t let someone talk you into a cam if it doesn’t meet your requirements and fit your specific applications and goals.
- Keep in mind there is more then one way to make the same amount of power
- If you have the sniffer for emissions either go with the cam of your choice and pray you find a good enough tuner and have luck on your side or choose a smog friendly grind. Keep the overlap in check, the more negative overlap @ .050 the easier it will be to pass. Here is Ed's (Ed Vert's) Cali smog sheet from his tr224 114 which has negative 4* overlap @ .050.
- When buying a used cam ask for the cam card and/or serial numbers. Take that serial number and email or PM the company or board representative with that serial number. They will be able to tell you if in fact it is one of there grinds and if it’s the one you had planned on purchasing. That is the only way short of having the cam spec’d on a cam doctor to know exactly what cam you are buying. Here's the serial number from my old TR230.
- Don’t get caught up in peak HP. These are ls1 boards not Honda boards . Under the curve power is where it’s at.
You you finish reading you WILL FELL LIKE THIS
and all at once. Enjoy
04-10-2006, 02:48 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Very nice read...its great to have all the knowledge but all in all like it said, " you have to drive/ride or talk to guys with these cams" to get a true idea of what to expect. I just hate to lose all the low end torque. I put test pipes on my 350Z and lost all the low end ...
04-10-2006, 02:53 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by AU N EGL
The LS1 like any other engine works as a system, treat is as one, you want to get as much air in and out as you can. The plethora of mods out there will allow you to do that. Things to consider before you start on your modding process:
1) There is no "best" part when it comes to mods.
2) When you want to start modding your car come up with a tangible plan.
3) Do not go into modding blindly; you will end up wasting money, time, and effort.
4) Do your research before you buy mods.
5) Find out your states/counties emissions requirements before choosing mods
6) Be realistic on what you're going to do with your car
7) Usable power under the curve is what you want to shoot for, do not just look at peak gains
8) Work within your budget
9) If your are still under warranty Contact your own dealership and discuss your warranty and modding issues.
- Get a basic understanding of cams before purchasing. It’ll also help you understand the info/advice that is given on the boards.
- ALL gains are relative to your own setup
1) For example if you installed S2 heads and a tsp231 cam and only put down 390rwhp tuned don’t fret if you started with a base of 290rwhp.
- When researching cams look at the average gains. Don’t look at the highest gains you see (395rwhp with say and ls6 cam) and expect to get the same results when the average is 360-380rwhp depending on setup
- Can a cam be your first mod; yes. Should a cam be your first mod; NO.
1) Cams need to breath, that means a complete intake and exhaust setup. The bigger the cam the more prevalent those mods become.
2) A4 guys; match your stall and cam appropriately
- Don’t be afraid of older or smaller cams (T1/B1, tr220, comps 218, ect). They might not use the latest and greatest lobe technology or break speed records but they are proven cams and are great for the guys looking for 400 > * rwhp cam only.
- Take Internet reviews of cams with a grain of salt and use them as reference only. Contact your local fbody club or ask around your local regional forum and find as many guys who have cams as you can. Hear and drive/ride along with as many different cam setups as you can. The reason for this is everyone has their own idea of what streetable is since that is a RELATIVE term. Decide on your own what streetable is to you
- Don’t let someone talk you into a cam if it doesn’t meet your requirements and fit your specific applications and goals.
- Keep in mind there is more then one way to make the same amount of power
- If you have the sniffer for emissions either go with the cam of your choice and pray you find a good enough tuner and have luck on your side or choose a smog friendly grind. Keep the overlap in check, the more negative overlap @ .050 the easier it will be to pass. Here is Ed's (Ed Vert's) Cali smog sheet from his tr224 114 which has negative 4* overlap @ .050.
- Don’t get caught up in peak HP. These are ls1 boards not Honda boards . Under the curve power is where it’s at.
1) There is no "best" part when it comes to mods.
2) When you want to start modding your car come up with a tangible plan.
3) Do not go into modding blindly; you will end up wasting money, time, and effort.
4) Do your research before you buy mods.
5) Find out your states/counties emissions requirements before choosing mods
6) Be realistic on what you're going to do with your car
7) Usable power under the curve is what you want to shoot for, do not just look at peak gains
8) Work within your budget
9) If your are still under warranty Contact your own dealership and discuss your warranty and modding issues.
- Get a basic understanding of cams before purchasing. It’ll also help you understand the info/advice that is given on the boards.
- ALL gains are relative to your own setup
1) For example if you installed S2 heads and a tsp231 cam and only put down 390rwhp tuned don’t fret if you started with a base of 290rwhp.
- When researching cams look at the average gains. Don’t look at the highest gains you see (395rwhp with say and ls6 cam) and expect to get the same results when the average is 360-380rwhp depending on setup
- Can a cam be your first mod; yes. Should a cam be your first mod; NO.
1) Cams need to breath, that means a complete intake and exhaust setup. The bigger the cam the more prevalent those mods become.
2) A4 guys; match your stall and cam appropriately
- Don’t be afraid of older or smaller cams (T1/B1, tr220, comps 218, ect). They might not use the latest and greatest lobe technology or break speed records but they are proven cams and are great for the guys looking for 400 > * rwhp cam only.
- Take Internet reviews of cams with a grain of salt and use them as reference only. Contact your local fbody club or ask around your local regional forum and find as many guys who have cams as you can. Hear and drive/ride along with as many different cam setups as you can. The reason for this is everyone has their own idea of what streetable is since that is a RELATIVE term. Decide on your own what streetable is to you
- Don’t let someone talk you into a cam if it doesn’t meet your requirements and fit your specific applications and goals.
- Keep in mind there is more then one way to make the same amount of power
- If you have the sniffer for emissions either go with the cam of your choice and pray you find a good enough tuner and have luck on your side or choose a smog friendly grind. Keep the overlap in check, the more negative overlap @ .050 the easier it will be to pass. Here is Ed's (Ed Vert's) Cali smog sheet from his tr224 114 which has negative 4* overlap @ .050.
- Don’t get caught up in peak HP. These are ls1 boards not Honda boards . Under the curve power is where it’s at.
(I bolded what I feel is the most important info within the article.)
