08VRZ06

Tuners...... I'm thinking of purchasing tuning software so which one would you all recommend, EFI Live or HP Tuners Pro and why??? Can one do more than the other??

Thanks

Mark

AIR_RAM

Bump... Im still wondering whats the best option to tune my vette as well...

SPEED SAFE, NICK

Michael_D

I can offer a totally worthless and no help for you type of response, as I am just learning how to tune via computer.

I bought HP Tuners because I was working with a tuner last year that used HP Tuners. He would send me a tune, I'd flash it, then take a log and send that to him, then he'd tweak the tune, send it back.I was never all that happy with the tune and felt it could be better, so I got curious and decided to learn this black art myself. I upgraded to the Pro interface and bought an LC1. Then I swapped cams and heads, thinking I'd just work with a tuner like I had before, and then tweak it after it was running well enough for me to not send a piston through the block. Well, come to find out, (post mortem and sunk costs on HP Tuners) is that the majority of tuners and dyno facilities use EFI Live. Some use both, but not many. It appears as if the enthusiast / DIY crowd primarily use HP Tuners. I suspect it is because it has a lower initial cost more than any other reason. But if you were tuning a lot of vehicles, then HP Tuners would end up being more costly, as you have to buy "credits" in order to flash a tune (different amount of credits per vehicle). If I were a pro, there's no way in hell I'd do that.

I'll also warn you, that if you are new to tuning, don't expect much help from anyone on forums or using the HP Tuner's help menu (although that is what "helpful" tuners tell you to do). You'll need to buy a few books, and should seriously consider a tuning class / course.

edcmat-l1

Well, at least you prefaced this relatively wrong post.

EFIlive costs per car to tune, unless you have a "stream" which is basically unlimited licensing for a certain yea/make/model. HPtuners costs per car, and you can work your way towards unlimited licensing per year/make model. The licensing structure is cheaper and easier to work with in HPtuners.

There are just as many, if not more, pros using HPtuners as EFIlive. HPtuners has a much wider range of vehicles they support, which is huge for professionals.

Both forums are pretty active, and there's plenty of good info readily available, if you look, and if you ask. Not everyone is going to tell you everything you need to know, or spoon feed you tuning training, but compared to tuning other platforms, there's a plethora of information on tuning GM vehicles.

Both software companies have their pros and cons. I own and use both.

Michael_D

Thanks for correcting my "relatively wrong" post.

I had no idea you have to pay a fee for each car with EFI Live. Good to know. How much does that cost, per vehicle?

When I was calling around to different "pros", seeing who might be able to help me with remote tuning, there was a ratio of four to one who used EFI Live, which lead me to believe the majority of pro's used EFI Live.

I gave up asking for help at HP Tuners and ordered an at home course from the tuning school. There might be a plethora of information available, but I have found it to be inconsistent.

edcmat-l1

EFIlive single licenses cost 125.00. HPtuners costs 99.98. EFIlive custom OSs are free, HPtuners costs 99.98, unless you have them unlimited.

I sell and provide technical support for HPtuners. There are others that do the same. As for the ratio of one to another, I would wonder who you called, and where, but that's not really important.

As for the "at home" training material, I will reserve comment.

SDPC

You can download and "test out" both programs free. You can't make changes to your vehicle but you can look through the software and see which one you would consider less confusing. HPtuners is generally considered more user friendly and for the average Joe at home I would recommend it.

As for learn at home books, I actually do really like the Tuning School's book. It won't make you a pro overnight but it's great for attaining a basic understanding of what different sections of HPtuners do and not only what you need to change to get certain results but WHY it does what it does when you change it. A foundation to start on when you are trying to learn to tune is invaluable. I keep their books here and make package deals on their system when bought with HPtuners and haven't had a customer regret that purchase yet.

Michael_D

Well from a complete newb perspective, I have found that reading books has helped me with a general understanding of what the inputs, parameters and outputs are, but they do not help much in the way of actually using the software. I have two of Banishes books, as well as Maslic's book. I've read them all from cover to cover several times. Maslic's book gave me the confidence to actually start going through the tuning process, but it didn't really go into how to use the software at a level that I need. I read thread after thread at HP Tuners, all their help topics, and endless amounts of time comparing tunes using the 'compare file' function, but still do not have a good enough foundation to confidently start making changes. The Tuning School at home course was the only thing I was able to find to help me, and I sure hope it was worth the $450. I should have it next week, and I am very hopeful that it will get me over this speed bump I have found myself stuck on. I have since found out that Banish has a training DVD, but not sure how it might compare with the tuning school course.

One thing I was wondering in regards to the HPT vrs EFI Live choice....Does EFI Live have a more user friendly way of tuning the C6 VE than HPT?? I just started digging into this after finding out the C6 has some form of virtual VE.

JUIC3D

Greg Banish books/DVDs are super helpful too. He basically walks you through each of the major aspects of tuning and explains what it does in a thorough manner. I've learned a lot by watching/reading his materials. The book is inexpensive at $20 but the DVDs are a little pricy. You can find them used though and save some cash(I did).

DSteck

I didn't buy/read a single book to learn to tune. Hope this helps.







The tune equipment companies aren't there to teach you to tune. They're there to provide the equipment to do it. I prefer HP Tuners because it is more user friendly and has a better (in my opinion) licensing structure.

Do yourself a huge favor and don't buy a garbage wideband (cough Innovate). The NGK AFX is the best in the budget category unless you want to step up to the $1000+ range.

JUIC3D

Everyone learns differently. I personally need to watch a video and be shown how to do something--I'm a visual guy--so the videos accompanied by the book really helped pound all the information home.

I do love my NGK as well

Michael_D

What's wrong with the LC1 with Bosch sensor??? I probably shouldn't ask, seeing how that's the one I bought.... And it appears to be working fine. I bought it because it is what the vendor / tuner I bought it from recommended it over the NGK AFX - and he sells both.

mourat

I just got NGK AFX! I did a ton of reading and basically save yourself the time, NGK AFX is the only way to go, I ditched my AEM, and my LM1 Innovate sits in a box now.

As for tuning. I have access to both, HP tuners and EFI live, plus Tunercat. I prefer the layout of HP Tuners, but for tuning its easier to tune 2006+ C6's with EFI live if your doing VE tuning, as EFI live gives you a real VE table not just variables, parameters, which is fine too but its more complicated and messy having to have to use BLUE CAT to convert a VE table, EFI live does it within the program itself.

I use HP tuners, blue cat and Tunercats. I love Tunercat and their support is by far better than HP Tuners or any other program out there. I email them to ask about a parameter, and they email me back next day with a new file with what I asked for, just that they dont sell their product anymore but interface yes HP Tuners and EFI live are easy.

Quick word on tunercat for those that have them:
Example, emailed tunercat asking for: O2 LTFT delay table since long tubes make LTFT go erratic, the closest thing to transport delays, and got the table.

Then emailed about getting rid of BARO update, got that too.

And tons of other things in the past, uploaded wrong file to a PCM and kept getting error to read, Tunercat emails me back with a file to load to read the PCM and load a proper file, like wow.

edcmat-l1

^^^ I agree. I've been dealing with John at Tunercat for years. He's great to work with. Heck of a guy.

Jimmyz28

Vote for HP Tuners here. Ease of use and more users using it for longer than EFI Live. EFI Live use to be called AutoTap in the 90's for OBD-I cars. FWIW, my LM1 works fine but I also don't have any experience with the NGK or others mentioned.

DSteck

"Seems to be working fine" based on what? A cheap watch seems to be working fine right up until you realize it is losing an hour every month because of poor parts. Have you ever looked at how poor the analog output is on that LC-1? All the jitter? Beyond that, they can drift in their readings even after just prolonged run time. I tried an LC-1 and dumped it ASAP because the analog signal was garbage (which they all do), and I was tired of it not reading consistent.

Jcrumpley

I'll jump in here and say that HP Tuners is great once you start to understand it. After reading a lot on the HP tuners forum and understanding pretty easily who to listen to on that forum and who not to listen to, it became pretty easy to sift through the vast information and move into tuning. The tuning school books, while not overly useful, provided me a good start in the basic "how to" stuff. It does not even come close to being a step by step as each car is different by nature. Also be aware that the tuning school books do NOT cover virtual VE, which many new cars use. I followed DSTECK's advice and bought the AFX NGK wideband and it works very well. Once you learn how to set up the config files and spend plenty of time understanding what the logs are telling you, the tuning is pretty straightforward.

Regarding help on the HP Tuners forum, if you do what is asked of you there by posting you log, config, and tune files and ask questions in very specific ways, you will get help.

The learning curve for HP tuners seems huge when you start, but much like many other things you learn, once you get the basics down, the rest just starts falling into place.

JUIC3D

The Greg Banish dvds go into VVE in great detail including an explanation for what it is, why GM went to it, how to tune it, and it gives an actual demonstration of tuning.

His book doesn't say anything about it though

Michael_D

That's why I asked. I have a cheap timex that keeps better time than a rolex I have, so your condescending analogy does not work for me. By what you write, I take it that the LC1 "drifts" over time. What do you mean by this, specifically? Is this for a permanently installed application, or for tuning sessions where it is removed and calibrated to free air on a regular basis?

JUIC3D

Stanger383 posted some pics of his log and his wideband showing what Dave is talking about. The wideband reading is jittery at best and doesn't give a clear indication of the information it's trying to show.

Here's the link
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-s...-hptuners.html