There are countless threads/posts regarding tunes and a voided warranty, however... Since joining the CF (June 09), Ive seen only ONE member state his warranty was voided. (And he tracked his car)
The question is... What are the actual odds of your tune on a DD causing a problem?
Has anyone actually had a problem with their tune and/or removed a problem tune, any more than ONE person with a voided warranty?
Or have the non tuner advocates just posted from speculation?
If only ONE CF member with a tune out of, I would guess, near a thousand had a problem, than odds are more than pretty good to go get a tune...
I've never had any of my four Vettes "tuned" but I plan on getting some dyno runs on my '08 just for the baseline info. As a DD, why would you need a tune unless you're having issues? All of my cars were stock and very driveable. If your car is still under the factory warranty you need to think twice before you have it tuned. Hope this helps.
Or have the non tuner advocates just posted from speculation?
This is exactly what it is. I would bet money that the people talking about flash counters and all this other crap have never touched tuning software.
So long as your original calibration is saved, you can flash it back in and it will pass the Tech-2 scan. I don't really advocate doing this, but it is indeed possible.
no, a tune has not given anyone problems.
However, the problems with a tune is that if a part breaks, and GM detects you have a tune, then they will void the warranty, regardless of the cause.
This is exactly what it is. I would bet money that the people talking about flash counters and all this other crap have never touched tuning software.
So long as your original calibration is saved, you can flash it back in and it will pass the Tech-2 scan. I don't really advocate doing this, but it is indeed possible.
Thats not necessarily the case.
If GM has enabled their CVN part number check in your car, the Tech2 will show the part number of any flash, up to the last 12 flashes, and anything NOT flashed with a Tech2 (or Predator ) will show a non GM part number for that flash, and thats not good.
, and anything NOT flashed with a Tech2 (or Predator ) will show a non GM part number for that flash, and thats not good.
Hmmm, mine is out of warrenty, but this remark makes me curious. Does the Predator flash show up as a GM part number flash ? So for the dealer there's no telling that you installed a Predator tune. What if Monty made a custom tune for your vehicle, would that also show up as a GM part number flash because it's flashed by the Predator.
If GM has enabled their CVN part number check in your car, the Tech2 will show the part number of any flash, up to the last 12 flashes, and anything NOT flashed with a Tech2 (or Predator ) will show a non GM part number for that flash, and thats not good.
that would mean that there's a flash "counter" in our ECM...which isn't the case...can you elaborate?
If GM has enabled their CVN part number check in your car, the Tech2 will show the part number of any flash, up to the last 12 flashes, and anything NOT flashed with a Tech2 (or Predator ) will show a non GM part number for that flash, and thats not good.
That's contrary to what everybody who has actually checked a reflash with a Tech 2 has said. I'm pretty sure even Greg Banish has confirmed that the Corvette PCMs have no such counter or way of tracking previous flashes.
The CVN works the same way as a checksum for a torrent. An algorithm gets applied to the data, and it spits out a result. That result has to match what "should" be there if it's a stock tune.
That's contrary to what everybody who has actually checked a reflash with a Tech 2 has said. I'm pretty sure even Greg Banish has confirmed that the Corvette PCMs have no such counter or way of tracking previous flashes.
The CVN works the same way as a checksum for a torrent. An algorithm gets applied to the data, and it spits out a result. That result has to match what "should" be there if it's a stock tune.
I think you guys missed the part where I said 'If' GM has enabled....
Only application where I have seen it is on late model Duramax trucks.
On those applications, the Predator flash does not even show up...period.
I'm pretty sure even Greg Banish has confirmed that the Corvette PCMs have no such counter or way of tracking previous flashes.
Nope, I didn't say that. I'm not privy to how they execute the security checks in any particular ECU. I leave that up to the software guys like Mike. Having been exposed to the complexity of many different OEM ECUs, I can tell you that it wouldn't be that hard to put a fairly hard to beat telltale in there if they really wanted to.
The bottom line is that if you're prepared to mod up, man up. Don't expect any OEM to cover for your mistakes in a custom tune.
__________________
Greg Banish
Calibrated Success, Inc.
Nope, I didn't say that. I'm not privy to how they execute the security checks in any particular ECU. I leave that up to the software guys like Mike. Having been exposed to the complexity of many different OEM ECUs, I can tell you that it wouldn't be that hard to put a fairly hard to beat telltale in there if they really wanted to.
The bottom line is that if you're prepared to mod up, man up. Don't expect any OEM to cover for your mistakes in a custom tune.
I'm probably confusing you and RWTD then. You guys tend to post in tandem when people have big tuning questions.
The last statement is all that needs to be said, though.
In the diesels it's called something like abuse profile or abuse something.. As far as gas cars go the dealers could really care less. Remember that voiding a warranty is illegal without specific proof that mod caused the failure. Also, voiding warranties isn't in the dealers best interest. Let's say a dealership voids your warranty and logs it into their system and all the dealers can see that.. would you take your car back to them for that 100 dollar oil change? Would you recommend to a friend in the market for a new car? NO, you would find somewhere else to go.
I've had my 08 Vortec Max custom tuned by Justin at Black Bear Performance and it's awesome. Now I know that it's no Corvette especially with a lift and 33's but I can tell you this... Man what a difference. This thing gets scratch from first to second with the 33's and hangs with my friend's '07 regular C6.. He only gets around a car length or two up to higher freeway speeds.. that's where I think the aerodynamics take over However, bragging is not what I'm here for.. although it's hard not to do. ha
We have a Tech 2 work and I haven't been able to find anything different after my tune. I've been a tech for 15 years, never a GM tech but I know plenty of them. You better believe I picked many brains before my tune and not a single one of my buddies said anything about ever even looking for software changes let alone stumbling on to them..
I don't want to contradict anyone or start any arguements.. That's just my two cents!! I would say go for it, for sure!! Just don't do any of these cookie cutters plug in jobbies!! Get a custom from someone who knows what they're doing.. Do your research!!! I haven't done any for Corvettes seeing as I don't own one, infact that's why I'm here.. After I got mine my buddy with the C6 really wants it, so I came here start all over again!! ha
In the diesels it's called something like abuse profile or abuse something.. As far as gas cars go the dealers could really care less. Remember that voiding a warranty is illegal without specific proof that mod caused the failure. Also, voiding warranties isn't in the dealers best interest. Let's say a dealership voids your warranty and logs it into their system and all the dealers can see that.. would you take your car back to them for that 100 dollar oil change? Would you recommend to a friend in the market for a new car? NO, you would find somewhere else to go.
I've had my 08 Vortec Max custom tuned by Justin at Black Bear Performance and it's awesome. Now I know that it's no Corvette especially with a lift and 33's but I can tell you this... Man what a difference. This thing gets scratch from first to second with the 33's and hangs with my friend's '07 regular C6.. He only gets around a car length or two up to higher freeway speeds.. that's where I think the aerodynamics take over However, bragging is not what I'm here for.. although it's hard not to do. ha
We have a Tech 2 work and I haven't been able to find anything different after my tune. I've been a tech for 15 years, never a GM tech but I know plenty of them. You better believe I picked many brains before my tune and not a single one of my buddies said anything about ever even looking for software changes let alone stumbling on to them..
I don't want to contradict anyone or start any arguements.. That's just my two cents!! I would say go for it, for sure!! Just don't do any of these cookie cutters plug in jobbies!! Get a custom from someone who knows what they're doing.. Do your research!!! I haven't done any for Corvettes seeing as I don't own one, infact that's why I'm here.. After I got mine my buddy with the C6 really wants it, so I came here start all over again!! ha
Have a good day guys!!
I agree with some and not agree with some. GM does not have to prove that your tune caused the issue, they already have. It is in torque management. Lets say you have a tuner who really does a good job on your tune and does the VE tables and idle tables and just really does a nice job with it. Will to keep from pulling timing he adjusts the TM table. If you break anything in the driveline, your done you changed the TM from what the parts were designed to handle.
GM checks the the tune with a Tech2, the part number and the CVN has to match, you can't reflash your ecm with your handheld to get this correct, it would have to be reflashed with a Tech2 with a GM program. If your car comes in with a driveline issue then they are going to check this and void your driveline warranty if your car does not match up. If you are adding parts and need a tune then this is just one of the trade off's that you have to take responsibilty for. This does not mean that if you start to have a failure in your fuel tank that they will also void that. You have to look at it from their side, if you change the parameter of where a part is supposed to work and you take it outside of that parameter and it fails it should be on you and not GM.
I agree with some and not agree with some. GM does not have to prove that your tune caused the issue, they already have. It is in torque management. Lets say you have a tuner who really does a good job on your tune and does the VE tables and idle tables and just really does a nice job with it. Will to keep from pulling timing he adjusts the TM table. If you break anything in the driveline, your done you changed the TM from what the parts were designed to handle. GM checks the the tune with a Tech2, the part number and the CVN has to match, you can't reflash your ecm with your handheld to get this correct, it would have to be reflashed with a Tech2 with a GM program. If your car comes in with a driveline issue then they are going to check this and void your driveline warranty if your car does not match up. If you are adding parts and need a tune then this is just one of the trade off's that you have to take responsibilty for. This does not mean that if you start to have a failure in your fuel tank that they will also void that. You have to look at it from their side, if you change the parameter of where a part is supposed to work and you take it outside of that parameter and it fails it should be on you and not GM.
Incorrect.
Lets do this.
I will bring you 2 Vettes.
One with a Predator tune in it, and another that HAD a Predator tune in it that has been returned to stock.
You grab a Tech2, and anything else you want to use, and tell me which car has the tune and which was put back to stock using a handheld. I promise you will never be able to tell, and the same goes for any dealer as well. Only way they could see changes in the file would be to open the tune using a tuning suite (highly unlikely) or read the PCM and send the read off the Detroit to be compared in hex to a known stock file to see if there are any changes. As for the car that had been returned to stock, there is NO trace of the Predator having ever been there. We do not change calids, nor CVNs.
It is illegal! It's called the Magnuson-Moss act, 1975. I was going to copy and paste the whole thing but it is way to long for a forum reply. Here are two links:
Mike,
Then yours will be the first. Notice I did not mention the predetor because we do not use and I have not tested it first hand. I can tell you that all of the others do including HP and EFI and I believe those are a little more in depth then the predator. So before you say incorrect, you do not have the only tuner out there and that was a blanket statement I made. If you would like to bring two cars I would be more the happy to check them for you.
It is illegal! It's called the Magnuson-Moss act, 1975. I was going to copy and paste the whole thing but it is way to long for a forum reply. Here are two links:
I'm sure you can find plenty of other info regarding it by googling it if want more.
What is illegal????
You changing anything in the computer that has anything to do with emissions is also technically against federal regulations so are you sure you would want to take GM to court on this. Second if you changed the TM then you changed the parameter in which something operates, you are on your own bud, GM does not have to warranty the part. It does not mean that they are 100% out of the warranty on your car, there are numerous electrical items etc that still would be covered. A warranty does not mean you have the liberty to replace and do what you want and when you mess up GM will replace it.
Corvette Store
A REAL Question about Tunes...
) will show a non GM part number for that flash, and thats not good.
However, bragging is not what I'm here for.. although it's hard not to do. ha
