till

I went back to page 4 to find this. Did you log boost vs rpm?
The important point probably is: where is the MAP reading taken with this blower?

What really counts is pressure/boost at the intake runners. Maybe there is plenty of boost in the labyrinth, but does it really make it through the manifold into the intake runners?

I have been looking at those pictures for quite a while trying to figure what I am actually looking at. The welds, cracks and warped plate aren't pretty, but the design is really "new and different".

Till

0Shawn @ Va Speed

explain what? i saw a car on the dyno,no shots of under the hood or power numbers.

user_name

lol

EOD_Tech Infidel

what a shame! i really hope dragon offers a refund

vegasredz062

Drastic? come on man.. if that was your car and the company knew the client ALREADY went through one bad blower and then you send him that paper weight??

I was kidding about dropping the blower from a plane..but a company that talks like they hav the best blower in town and then ships that crap... sorry th OP has been put through HELL..

obzidian

I just don't think "Sue! Kill em all! They should close their doors!" kind of reactions are truly necessary though I can understand your sentiment.

Let's see where it goes from here instead of raining arrows from the hill tops.

gotjuice?

WOW, Glad you guys got the the fault of this POS. Did they think no one would see the poor workmanship?

TrenAman

refund at the least IMO. I wish Peter\Dragon would chime in here..

Stage7

I'm not advocating "kill em all" or anything, but sorry, unless Dragon comes on here and posts some magical story that will explain how this could have happened without their knowledge it's inexcusable. They sent him the 2nd blower like that? Then have him incur a bill who knows how big to work with Va Speed to **discover** this mess?

They could have told him where to look in the 1st place for his issues. I don't usually chime in on these threads, but I couldn't stay on the sidelines this time. It's not like they were sending him blowers straight from another manufacturer and didn't know what was underneath it all.

On top of it the 1st defective blower they shipped him took out his original engine.

I will at least say that they did offer to have him ship his car to their shop for them to fix it. However, how realistic is that for someone in Va? Even if they payed shipping to and fro, he would have had to fly there to test drive, and check out the build before accepting delivery. And in being a beta tester, the only people who could have serviced any gremlins in the future would have been Dragon in that case.

They advertise it for sale as a bolt on kit ready for primetime with plenty of dyno graphs to tell you what to expect with various combos. Thus, I totally understand him going to a local tuner/builder to have them help sort things out in this case.

I don't have anything personal against Dragon, but I really feel for the OP.

vegasredz062

Well maybe i got worked up..I was just thinking as if I owned the car and how "I" would feel..

1st blower took out his engine, second one was made from playdough..

I dont know.. If the OP can deal with it , he a bigger man then me..

PowerLabs

Not sure what you're laughing at. Is it the fact that the person who claims to know what is wrong still hasn't solved it? I'm just providing food for thought here; ultimately everything in this thread is a theory untill proven otherwise. Comments like yours might amuse your inner self but do little to help the OP.

Dragon Race claims that is the dyno for the same system in the OP's car, making 760RTQ & 685RWHP @ 14PSI with a 3.5" pulley:
.

This leaves us with the following options:

1- Dragon Race Engineering is lying. I assume that is your theory since you said there is no proof that it made 800+ HP.

2- The System in the OP's car is not the same as what is on that video.

3- There is something else wrong here that we are all missing.

All 3 are, at least in theory, plausible. It is also possible that the blower is just being driven too hard and parasitic drag is offsetting any gains from increased airflow (this has been suggested before). I asked many pages ago the two questions that would indicate that though:
Is the Intake Air Temperature on boost normal, or is it climbing out of control and becomming excessive?
Is the belt slipping? You can only transmit enough power through an 8-Rib belt, specially into a tiny pulley that doesn't have a lot of surface area for the belt to grab on to. If parasitic drag is really that enormous, I'd expect to see some belt slip as the blower goes into full boost.

I'd also like to add that I'm participating on this thread for two reasons: First of all I was one of the people who suggested to John that he look into Dragon Race Engineering for his supercharger because the Whipple head unit they are using is an excellent supercharger, and the kit looked promising based on that video they had posted online. I consider him a friend and I'd like to help him solve this.
Secondly I find this problem intellectually stimulating. That's it. I'm not here to offend egos or start anything, so I'd really appreciate non sarcastic replies. Or, at the very least, if you don't have anything helpful to say (not directed at anyone in particular here), just PM me the insult, I'll delete it, and we can keep the thread going in the right direction.

user_name

Actually the only person that can help the OP is the owner of Dragon, or a lawyer if that fails. Just my $0.02.

I think the funny part is that it's extremely obvious where the problem lies. The 1 part that is not proven, the manifold.

edcmat-l1

Yes. The IATs are quite high. Also, for the engine's compression, I can't seem to get a normal amount of timing in the tune.

No. There are no real signs of belt slip.

If you have any REAL input towards a resolution, trust me, we're all ears.

DOUG @ ECS

OP, I have briefly followed your saga here and really feel bad for you, if your interested, we will put together a kit for you at a rock bottom price to try and help the situation some. I'm sure the guys at VA speed will be able to make 800rwhp with your present engine easily, and you can enjoy your car again. Best of luck either way.

Res1cue

I would just like to state for the record that I did not condone the posting of these pictures. On the contrary I actually asked Va Speed to remove them because I gave my word to Peter that I would not post pictures of their manifold design because it was Pat. Pending. They were posted as part of the troubleshooting process trying to identify restrictions limiting performance gains of only 115Hp and 158ft lb torque over NA numbers.

I do understand Va Speeds position in defending their integrity as a performance engine builder. Previous posts regarding the quality and workmanship of the build and Ed's ability as an engine tuner obviously upset them greatly and played a major part in their decision to release those pictures.

They seem to have proven that the engine was not a factor in the poor performance in this Engine/Supercharger combination. Once I receive the 4.375 pulley and we can slow the blower down expectation are for better results.

Res1cue

Thank you for your offer but I have not given up yet. I will however tuck it away.

old motorhead

The patience of Job. I sincerely hope you're rewarded with a sweet running vette when all is said and done. Hope it happens in a timely manner too

0Shawn @ Va Speed

John,i have removed the pictures.but to be clear,after applying for a patent nobody else can apply for the same patent unless you let the patent pending expire without all the needed info to back up your patent.

Either way,good luck with your project and be sure to let us know how you make out in the end.

mAydAy121

Patent Pending provides no actual protection other than nobody else can apply for exactly the same patent (they could still apply for something very, very similar). Someone else could produce an identical product until the patent cleared which could be years (but could then be held liable for infringement and back dated royalties).

All of this is assuming the patent clears, which can be a long and arduous process due to all of the paperwork and government nitpicking.



Considering the results thus far, I don't think anyone will be trying to copy it just yet....

0Shawn @ Va Speed

exactly-it provides the same protection that a patent does-very little all anybody has to to is change one thing and can apply for a new patent.