Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Supercharger & road racing C6 Z06- need input
I have a 2007 C6 Z06. It has a fair amount of mods. I am going to put in a Qm600 cam. The car is in the shop waiting for direction. I figure if I am going into the engine, why not get it ready for some future mods.
Last dyno was 490RWHP, with the cam I should expect another 50 rwhp. I am debating to take the supercharger route. If I do, I will prepare the car for it; engine 427 swap (forged parts), upgraded radiator and oil cooler, clutch..ect
It would be nice to have anywhere from 600HP to 750HP RWHP one day. I use the car about 30% on the streets and 70% on road course track. The track is for fun, no serious competitions, just serious fun and to whip the modified Vipers..ect
I hear that N/A would be the best route for lot's of road racing? What are your opinions? Would the track be to much stress on the supercharger and lead to other problems in the engine?
Another route could be to swap engines for a 402 ect...this setup would be just for an N/A setup. I could probally expect up to 590RWHP. The torque band would be different, but is it worth the money vs the gain?
Or, I could just put the cam in and do some minor engine mods. If this sounds like the best route, what parts would you forge?
Conventional wisdom , and the word of my tuner , say that if you plan on primarily road racing , you are much better off going the N/A route . I only have a regular C6 , but I can tell you superchargers really start to lay down with the heat road racing will generate . It can be done , but N/A is a better settup for what you seem to be looking for .
Conventional wisdom , and the word of my tuner , say that if you plan on primarily road racing , you are much better off going the N/A route . I only have a regular C6 , but I can tell you superchargers really start to lay down with the heat road racing will generate . It can be done , but N/A is a better settup for what you seem to be looking for .
Good luck
Have to agree all I hear is how good NA is for the track.Then again, I'm giving internet advice. I've never been on a track nor have had any experiences. My best bet is to talk to someone like LG who has experiences on the track.
Conventional wisdom , and the word of my tuner , say that if you plan on primarily road racing , you are much better off going the N/A route . I only have a regular C6 , but I can tell you superchargers really start to lay down with the heat road racing will generate . It can be done , but N/A is a better settup for what you seem to be looking for .
Good luck
Thank's for the resonse...I have been hearing that
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindication
Have to agree all I hear is how good NA is for the track.Then again, I'm giving internet advice. I've never been on a track nor have had any experiences. My best bet is to talk to someone like LG who has experiences on the track.
You never been to the track, you don't know what your missing out on
I would Suspect the Compression in The 427 is 11to 1 correct ?I would Think That if U did run a Blower ,you could only Run about 5lbs of boost ,That is a lot of money for only 5lbs,u may be better off Going the cam Route & put some headers on it while its there ,Jim @ Halltech Makes the Killer Bee that would be Worth looking into http://www.halltechsystems.com//Prod...ductCode=KBA1,http://www.halltechsystems.com//Prod...tCode=KAT-4727
Last edited by fsuforever; 10-11-2007 at 11:12 AM.
You said your getting the QM 600 cam right? Quality motorsports has got a set of heads to match that cam that is putting out 600 rwhp! Patrick the owner has built a bunch of road race cars! With him your in great hands. He will lead you in the right direction!
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsuforever
I would Suspect the Compression in The 427 is 11to 1 correct ?I would Think That if U did run a Blower ,you could only Run about 5lbs of boost ,That is a lot of money for only 5lbs,u may be better off Going the cam Route & put some headers on it while its there ,Jim @ Halltech Makes the Killer Bee that would be Worth looking into http://www.halltechsystems.com//Prod...ductCode=KBA1,http://www.halltechsystems.com//Prod...tCode=KAT-4727
I think there was a possibility of getting in to a 10 to 1 compression, to run about 10lbs of boost, that's of course if we take the route of chaning the engine.. headers and intake are already present, but I guess the question would be, how would a supercharger run on a track with the appropiate mods
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstarr c6
You said your getting the QM 600 cam right? Quality motorsports has got a set of heads to match that cam that is putting out 600 rwhp! Patrick the owner has built a bunch of road race cars! With him your in great hands. He will lead you in the right direction!
sorry it cant run on a track!! a few seconds of WOT gets the water temps high, oil temps and not to mention the IAT. I guess a supercharger is good for people who want to mess with other people on the street (like I do hahaa), otherwise for a track its a no. That's just my opinion!! You might be able to run some methanol injection, a good radiator/oil cooler to keep the temps where they should be.
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayousef
sorry it cant run on a track!! a few seconds of WOT gets the water temps high, oil temps and not to mention the IAT. I guess a supercharger is good for people who want to mess with other people on the street (like I do hahaa), otherwise for a track its a no. That's just my opinion!! You might be able to run some methanol injection, a good radiator/oil cooler to keep the temps where they should be.
I was hoping that a good radiator like Ron Davis or simillar might do the job. I know of the track there is a lot of heat. There are so many Evo's with supercharger, is there something in that setup that would make it different?
Location: Brooklyn New York The DVL and the chicken sleep with the fishes....
Quote:
Originally Posted by 805Z06
I was hoping that a good radiator like Ron Davis or simillar might do the job. I know of the track there is a lot of heat. There are so many Evo's with supercharger, is there something in that setup that would make it different?
There is ALOT more room in EVO's and other car engine compartments that will help them in the heat area - In the Vette , you have alot of stuff jammed into a relativly small area (also , arent Evos turboed ?)- So that helps , and even those car loose power when they get hot - A buddy of mine got the new Porche 911 Turbo , and he road races - He eventualy sold that car for a GT3 because the Turbo would loose alot of power after a few hot laps - Im sure there are people that make it work , and make it work well , but it seems that FI is really better applied to the street .
My tuner just did a procharged Z a few months ago ( the roadracing link I posted for you above ) and its HIS opinion that FI , the Z , and roadracing are just not a great combo , period -
Good luck and if you do it , post the results , I would love to see if I could take my car roadracing without overheating it
I was hoping that a good radiator like Ron Davis or simillar might do the job. I know of the track there is a lot of heat. There are so many Evo's with supercharger, is there something in that setup that would make it different?
well ive seen some that had a good preparation of locating the intercooler, and radiator angled in a sense that nothing blocks the other, and both get adequate air flow to cool.
Take a look at the Z, or perhaps the way my Z has been set-up, the oil cooler comes first, in front of the intercooler, which sits in front of the A/C condenser cooler thingy, which sits in front of the radiator, thats 4 layers of equipment that need cooling from the limited amount of air.
But for example, im sure the GT2 which has twin turbos would work pretty good on the track... almost all *** cars have turbos, how do they work on the track?
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynC6
Im sure there are people that make it work , and make it work well , but it seems that FI is really better applied to the street .
Good luck and if you do it , post the results , I would love to see if I could take my car roadracing without overheating it
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayousef
But for example, im sure the GT2 which has twin turbos would work pretty good on the track... almost all *** cars have turbos, how do they work on the track?
There is not going to be an easy way. I still want to look into it further.
I might do the first stage, engine swap to a forged 427 w/ upgraded radiator and clutch. Then maybe the ac hood with all the opening, that should let a lot of hot air out.
Then maybe keep the super charger option for later / second stage.
If I do the first stage, I will try to go N/A 600RWHP. If I drop the project and just upgrade the cam, I could try to shoot for 550HP.
well ive seen some that had a good preparation of locating the intercooler, and radiator angled in a sense that nothing blocks the other, and both get adequate air flow to cool.
Take a look at the Z, or perhaps the way my Z has been set-up, the oil cooler comes first, in front of the intercooler, which sits in front of the A/C condenser cooler thingy, which sits in front of the radiator, thats 4 layers of equipment that need cooling from the limited amount of air.
But for example, im sure the GT2 which has twin turbos would work pretty good on the track... almost all *** cars have turbos, how do they work on the track?
Those cars are designed from the factory with FI and their cooling system supports it.
Ever try removing the FMIC and just use Gaseous Intercooling (i.e. Meth Injection) in it's place? That may do the trick.
sorry it cant run on a track!! a few seconds of WOT gets the water temps high, oil temps and not to mention the IAT. I guess a supercharger is good for people who want to mess with other people on the street (like I do hahaa), otherwise for a track its a no. That's just my opinion!! You might be able to run some methanol injection, a good radiator/oil cooler to keep the temps where they should be.
Maybe you should spend some money upgrading your cooling system. Here is a question for you to ponder. GM's new super car is going to have a supercharger. Do you think after a few seconds of WOT it will be usless? You added a TON of power but have not upgraded the cooling system to handle the power. Shame on you for blaming the supercharger.
You have to engineer a SC system that has proper cooling. All of the "genius" supercharger shops create these kits that put an FMIC in front of the raditor and they wonder why they have cooling issues. In my opinion they are not selling a well engineered setup. Having the FMIC only produces a high HP number for a short duration (beause it cools the air charge). But in intense competition....heat!
Here is my challenge to you supercharger kit makers (ECS, A&A, Procharger, Vortech....):
Make a total package supercharger system that works like an OEM system. Not some piece of **** that over heats after a few seconds of hard acceleration.
Last edited by c5_from_jc; 10-14-2007 at 06:16 PM.
I have a ProCharger in my C6 6mn, and I also installed a 57mm Ron Davis radiator, Meziere 55 gph electric water pump, oil cooler, 160 t'stat, and did the Big Bolas mod. All I can tell you is that on the street, with the ambient temp at 80 or below, my coolant temp is 167 and oil temp 180. Two strong, back to back runs thru the gears, up to 150-ish, and you can add 60 to both numbers! Can't imagine what these temps would be with a road course work out? Road course racing with big inch V8's are usually normally asperated engines.
Do a search for jbsblownc5 - he races his blown C5 quite a bit and it makes a ridiculous amount of blown power.
Heat is the enemy, not only for FI but also NA. Every engine starts to lose power as heat comes on, but it is especially bad if you dont resolve your heat issues with FI.
Road racing with forced induction can be done with success, look at the past 2 years of Le Mans winner Audi and their turbo diesel engine.
IMO - I would rather solve the heat issues and go with a centrifugal blower (which makes boost progressively) then have to deal with the about-to-turn-off big cam set up. Both my cars are now SC'd and I love em. Again, just my preference.
PS - Mitsubishi and Subaru make some pretty great rally cars, both of which are FI.
Location: SOUTHERN CALI - Most of the time California
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pio
Do a search for jbsblownc5 - he races his blown C5 quite a bit and it makes a ridiculous amount of blown power.
Heat is the enemy, not only for FI but also NA. Every engine starts to lose power as heat comes on, but it is especially bad if you dont resolve your heat issues with FI.
Road racing with forced induction can be done with success, look at the past 2 years of Le Mans winner Audi and their turbo diesel engine.
IMO - I would rather solve the heat issues and go with a centrifugal blower (which makes boost progressively) then have to deal with the about-to-turn-off big cam set up. Both my cars are now SC'd and I love em. Again, just my preference.
PS - Mitsubishi and Subaru make some pretty great rally cars, both of which are FI.
Corvette Store
Supercharger & road racing C6 Z06- need input
