Im gauging curiousity as im about to pick up a new vette for myself and i would like to do a setup like this. How many people would be interested in a COMPLETE twin turbo kit for both c6 and z06 created by one of the worlds largest and most renowed turbo kit and aftermarket parts manufacturers that is the following.....
1) CARB LEGAL, (emissions compliant)
2) No normal drivablity issues under daily driving
3) no modifications made to the factory wiring
4) Normally aspirated-like spool time (almost INSTANT)
5) horsepower rating above that of supercharging
6) with a TRUSTED name in corvette performance doing the tuning for them?
7) fit and finish BEYOND that of available systems that have ever been produced
NOTE: this is mere speculation, but would like gauge interest in what i would like to do to my own car to see if im indeed weird, or if there are other people that would like to see this happen
I got everything above over 6 months ago. It's a little late in the game, but better late than never. Good luck in your ventures, as you know, there is quite a bit of competition out there...
Well, everything but CARB approval. The APS kit will probably pass with cats, but it is not CARB approved.
I guess that's the one advantage of living in CT over CA... Unfortunately the disadvantages are of overwhelming. It's 10 degrees and my Vette has been parked to two months with two more to go!
Location: Works at GT PRO Performance Tuning Modifying C5/6 Z06's in Fullerton CA, WWW.SOCALCORVETTE.COM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minkster
I think STS is about to get CARB approval soon. From what I have ben told and seen, their kit provides all the qualities listed in the original post.
STS is an interesting proposition, however I have major concerns and Jim Hall and I have spoken about these concerns in detail.
1. Rear mounted turbos, no exhaust choice, just straight out of the turbine housing (might be a bit much for some) as well as you cannot tailor your car to sound the way you want it to with your favorite exhaust system.
2. Oil feed and return lines running the length of the car is scarry business
3. Rocks, debris junk and trash in general flying under the car poses quite some hazards to the turbos, the piping, oil lines, and most importantly the air filters.
4. Dirt, debris etc. getting all up in the filters, possibility of tearing a filter and sucking up a squirrel.
5. Water ?? what about puddles car washes etc???
6. Rain?? no driving in the rain
7. Boost controller install would require quite some long vaccum tubing, which will slow response.
LOL. i just realized this thread got double posted. Yeah. CA is a pain in the ass to live in. I havent really found anyone that was pushing for CARB cert for us poor people in CA.
LOL. i just realized this thread got double posted. Yeah. CA is a pain in the ass to live in. I havent really found anyone that was pushing for CARB cert for us poor people in CA.
Hey all you guys need to deal with is the CARB bullsh!t... besides that you have the advantage on hot women and the good weather!
Hey all you guys need to deal with is the CARB bullsh!t... besides that you have the advantage on hot women and the good weather!
Im from TX. I preffer the women there. About all CA has going for it is the weather and the fact i can say im cool because i live here now. It would be difficult/next to impossible to get the current turbo kits available now to meet the stringent guidlines of CARB. They would need to be redesigned, which is why i posted this thread. One of the largest international turbo kit /aftermarket parts manufacturers has shown interest in this platform and would like to see if there are other poepl who share my concerns about all the other forced induction options. I have tuned, driven, and worked on a aps c6 corvette and its a wonderfull setup. It just wont meet the criteria for stringent carb 50state legal certifications.
Im from TX. I preffer the women there. About all CA has going for it is the weather and the fact i can say im cool because i live here now. It would be difficult/next to impossible to get the current turbo kits available now to meet the stringent guidlines of CARB. They would need to be redesigned, which is why i posted this thread. One of the largest international turbo kit /aftermarket parts manufacturers has shown interest in this platform and would like to see if there are other poepl who share my concerns about all the other forced induction options. I have tuned, driven, and worked on a aps c6 corvette and its a wonderfull setup. It just wont meet the criteria for stringent carb 50state legal certifications.
I think if they can be the first or only Turbo charger that is 50 state legal then they would get a lot of business (assuming all the hp are equal to other systems). I for one would get it. I am still on the fence since I know that so far there are no Turbo that can pass the CA smog test.
When I started my Mazda this morning, the outside temp read 10.
Good God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by csun213
I think if they can be the first or only Turbo charger that is 50 state legal then they would get a lot of business (assuming all the hp are equal to other systems).
There is no debate that front mount setups will be much more efficient vs a rear mount. Again, I think that the APS kit with cats would pass a sniffer. Hell, it would probably pass a visual if the tech wasn't a tight ass. Coating the hot parts keeps enough additional heat in there to light off the cats anyway vs a stock setup...f'n CARB.
STS is an interesting proposition, however I have major concerns and Jim Hall and I have spoken about these concerns in detail.
1. Rear mounted turbos, no exhaust choice, just straight out of the turbine housing (might be a bit much for some) as well as you cannot tailor your car to sound the way you want it to with your favorite exhaust system.
2. Oil feed and return lines running the length of the car is scarry business
3. Rocks, debris junk and trash in general flying under the car poses quite some hazards to the turbos, the piping, oil lines, and most importantly the air filters.
4. Dirt, debris etc. getting all up in the filters, possibility of tearing a filter and sucking up a squirrel.
5. Water ?? what about puddles car washes etc???
6. Rain?? no driving in the rain
7. Boost controller install would require quite some long vaccum tubing, which will slow response.
This is my concerns, maybe discuss??
Interesting points. I don't have the system myself, but have been doing some research and PM'd several guys (GPJ and ProtoVette) here on the forum who have the STS installed. I have also watched the Horsepower TV show where they installed one on a '05 C6 Vert, dynoed it, and drove it around. I have also talked to the sales rep at STS and have gotten responses from he and the owner/designer (Rick) of the system, got names of some locals (in CA) who have have the system who I called and talked to. Also talked to an installed in LA. My concerns were SMOG, sound/drone, lag, and heat issues for HPDE use. I will try and address your points from what I have gathered.
1. Although not in the original posters list, this is true, you are stuck with the sound the turbos make. However, from what I have been told, with a stock car and exhaust, it is no louder than Corsas, very little drone and sort of exotic sounding. Add LT's and remove the cats and it can be pretty loud. However, sound is such a personal thing, this issue would be hard to quantify.
2. The oil lines are tucked up and as long as they are secured properly, I wouldn't think they would be in any more danger than other lines under the car. They look to use high quality aircraft style lines and having flown military jets that use lines like these that operate at much higher pressures than generated by an LS2 or any car engine, I don't think there is a problem with failure there. Also, since the lines can't expand, loss of pressure shouldn't be an issue as long as the oil pump maintains pressure. The lines aren't significantly long to cause a pressure drop due to length.
3 &4. Again, from the pictures I have seen and owners accounts, the system is tucked up away from most everything unless you're 4 wheeling somewhere. The aircleaners are tucked behind the tail lights and anything getting up there with enough energy to do any damage would have done a lot more on the way (diff, fuel cell!), so you got bigger problems.
5 & 6. Again, the intakes are tucked up behind the rear tail lights. If you're getting water that high, it's comming in the doors or you're in submarine mode. No concerns with driving in rain other than traction if they get on it .
7. Not sure about this one as I was looking at a low non-adjustible boost level (6-7 psi) to preserve the drive train (and I don't think I need more than 575 RWHP in a street car). However, I talked to a couple guys who had gotten adjustible boost controllers and they didn't mention any problems. You would have to ask someone directly to determine the answer.
To address what I found out about my issues:
SMOG/ CA Cert: CA BAR ran a test at the local installer in LA, also did a visual (remember, this system leaves the original CATS and exhaust in place), and I was told it passed. STS is waiting on the CA CE number to list the system as CA SMOG Certified (paperwork at CARB). We'll see, but at least they are working the issue while no one else is.
Sound/Drone: Everyone who has this system loves the sound, says there is hardly any drone. I would want to hear this for myself before commiting.
Lag: Everyone who I have talked to said that with the stock (smaller) turbos, the car drives like a regular engine, then once you step on it, it just dials up very smoothly (no hard hit), with no perceptible lag to them. Sounds just how I would want it, just a long hard pull. But again, lag is a subjective thing, and I would want to drive one myself.
Heat: From what I have found out, if I were to run in boost for extended periods (like HPDE/road course) there will be heat issues and I would need extra cooling. If I were drag racing, it shouldn't be a problem. No problems in street use at all.
That's what I have found out. Big thing is they will (hopefully) be CA Smog legal very soon. Bad thing is the heat issue for HPDE, but this an issue with any built or boosted motor for that kind of track use.
Bottom line, I need to drive one to make a final decission.
Sorry for the long post, but hope this answers some questions. I would also talk/PM the guys on the forum in the FI section about their experiences.
STS is an interesting proposition, however I have major concerns and Jim Hall and I have spoken about these concerns in detail.
1. Rear mounted turbos, no exhaust choice, just straight out of the turbine housing (might be a bit much for some) as well as you cannot tailor your car to sound the way you want it to with your favorite exhaust system.
2. Oil feed and return lines running the length of the car is scarry business
3. Rocks, debris junk and trash in general flying under the car poses quite some hazards to the turbos, the piping, oil lines, and most importantly the air filters.
4. Dirt, debris etc. getting all up in the filters, possibility of tearing a filter and sucking up a squirrel.
5. Water ?? what about puddles car washes etc???
6. Rain?? no driving in the rain
7. Boost controller install would require quite some long vaccum tubing, which will slow response.
This is my concerns, maybe discuss??
1. Valid point
2. This too is a bit odd and scary to me, if the lines were every cut there would be trouble.
3. Small rocks should be fine, big ones, well the turbos are still tucked away.
4-6. I find it rather interesting that Jim Hall would have such issue with these points considering his original intake (the TRIC) had an exposed filter element in the front of the car. I trust these are your concerns and not his? Otherwise I want my money back
the STS is to unconventional for my blood. While being a proven design for what it is, Im personally scared of its setup and would not count it as an option for my own car. That is opinion. I also wouldnt want to start dialing up the boost with turbine housings-a-glowin that close to my gas tank
as far as ive seen and from what i hear, i think the APS would be the best option for a turbo kit if i had to buy one. I like the kit for the most part aside from the discharge pipes underneath the car look as if they would restrict HP and the fact they would never be CARB legal
as far as ive seen and from what i hear, i think the APS would be the best option for a turbo kit if i had to buy one. I like the kit for the most part aside from the discharge pipes underneath the car look as if they would restrict HP and the fact they would never be CARB legal
Hi, Denis, An intersting thread. The APS C6 ZO6 twin turbo system system will be release mid year (around July 07 if all goes to plan) and I really don't see the discharge pipes as being a power limiter for 99% of street driven twin turbo ZO6's.
Interesting points. I don't have the system myself, but have been doing some research and PM'd several guys (GPJ and ProtoVette) here on the forum who have the STS installed. I have also watched the Horsepower TV show where they installed one on a '05 C6 Vert, dynoed it, and drove it around. I have also talked to the sales rep at STS and have gotten responses from he and the owner/designer (Rick) of the system, got names of some locals (in CA) who have have the system who I called and talked to. Also talked to an installed in LA. My concerns were SMOG, sound/drone, lag, and heat issues for HPDE use. I will try and address your points from what I have gathered.
1. Although not in the original posters list, this is true, you are stuck with the sound the turbos make. However, from what I have been told, with a stock car and exhaust, it is no louder than Corsas, very little drone and sort of exotic sounding. Add LT's and remove the cats and it can be pretty loud. However, sound is such a personal thing, this issue would be hard to quantify.
2. The oil lines are tucked up and as long as they are secured properly, I wouldn't think they would be in any more danger than other lines under the car. They look to use high quality aircraft style lines and having flown military jets that use lines like these that operate at much higher pressures than generated by an LS2 or any car engine, I don't think there is a problem with failure there. Also, since the lines can't expand, loss of pressure shouldn't be an issue as long as the oil pump maintains pressure. The lines aren't significantly long to cause a pressure drop due to length.
3 &4. Again, from the pictures I have seen and owners accounts, the system is tucked up away from most everything unless you're 4 wheeling somewhere. The aircleaners are tucked behind the tail lights and anything getting up there with enough energy to do any damage would have done a lot more on the way (diff, fuel cell!), so you got bigger problems.
5 & 6. Again, the intakes are tucked up behind the rear tail lights. If you're getting water that high, it's comming in the doors or you're in submarine mode. No concerns with driving in rain other than traction if they get on it .
7. Not sure about this one as I was looking at a low non-adjustible boost level (6-7 psi) to preserve the drive train (and I don't think I need more than 575 RWHP in a street car). However, I talked to a couple guys who had gotten adjustible boost controllers and they didn't mention any problems. You would have to ask someone directly to determine the answer.
To address what I found out about my issues:
SMOG/ CA Cert: CA BAR ran a test at the local installer in LA, also did a visual (remember, this system leaves the original CATS and exhaust in place), and I was told it passed. STS is waiting on the CA CE number to list the system as CA SMOG Certified (paperwork at CARB). We'll see, but at least they are working the issue while no one else is.
Sound/Drone: Everyone who has this system loves the sound, says there is hardly any drone. I would want to hear this for myself before commiting.
Lag: Everyone who I have talked to said that with the stock (smaller) turbos, the car drives like a regular engine, then once you step on it, it just dials up very smoothly (no hard hit), with no perceptible lag to them. Sounds just how I would want it, just a long hard pull. But again, lag is a subjective thing, and I would want to drive one myself.
Heat: From what I have found out, if I were to run in boost for extended periods (like HPDE/road course) there will be heat issues and I would need extra cooling. If I were drag racing, it shouldn't be a problem. No problems in street use at all.
That's what I have found out. Big thing is they will (hopefully) be CA Smog legal very soon. Bad thing is the heat issue for HPDE, but this an issue with any built or boosted motor for that kind of track use.
Bottom line, I need to drive one to make a final decission.
Sorry for the long post, but hope this answers some questions. I would also talk/PM the guys on the forum in the FI section about their experiences.
Hey Minkster,
You did a pretty good job of answering those concerns with the STS twin turbo setup. Having an STS on my C5, can say I agree with all you posted.
the STS is to unconventional for my blood. While being a proven design for what it is, Im personally scared of its setup and would not count it as an option for my own car. That is opinion. I also wouldnt want to start dialing up the boost with turbine housings-a-glowin that close to my gas tank
Here is picture of the underneath of a C6:
I hope someone else who knows a little about Corvettes and cars would be doing the design work of this new system. Look at the picture, the mufflers (where the STS turbos are positioned) are at the rear of the car, while the fuel tanks are in front of the rear wheels (silver metal shields are covering the tanks). They are nowhere near each other. I can't imagine any auto manufacturer putting hot mufflers right next to fuel tanks. Thats crazy talk.
Corvette Store
TWIN TURBO c6/z06?
It's a little late in the game, but better late than never. Good luck in your ventures, as you know, there is quite a bit of competition out there...
*CLICK HERE FOR PICS & MODS!*
Unfortunately the disadvantages are of overwhelming. It's 10 degrees and my Vette has been parked to two months with two more to go! 
.
