100 DRY Shot = Huge Dissapointing Install and dyno #'s
Run down on the car..Vararam and 125 dry shot on 2005 A4.
Kit = Pro Dry Shot from Nitrous Direct
Install was peformed by Cold Fusion in Houston Texas
Based on referral from Nitrous Direct, i took my car to Cold Fusion for the install. Little did I know, they have never installed a kit on a C6. I know because they were calling my tuner for directions on how to wire it up. Wish I was informed from the get go or else i wouldnt have taken it there. First Mistake.
The install was a hack job. My window switch was literally hanging in front of my break pedal. My purge kit was also stuffed in my fender, loose. It is slapping around under the hood when its purged. I have a loud vibrating noise under the car somewhere most likely due to them not securing the nitrous lines. They didnt install the blowdown which I paid for as it is part of the kit.
To top it off, the installation was $725.00. It has been a nightmare from the beginning. Initial quote for install was $540.00, then it was in the $800 range but after arguing it came down $100.00.
Now for the dyno #'s, best pull of the night was a measly 402.93whp and 499 torque but that was a spike from the intial hit. Torque steadily declined from that point on.
Prior to nitrous install, the car put down 346whp with just vararam. I only picked up 62 whp on a 125 dry shot!!!!
This absolutely blows my mind. Total bill came out to 2k. The worst decision i have made thus far with this car. I am so tempted to take the damn thing off.
I will see if Cold Fusion rectifies this problem tomorrow.
Run down on the car..Vararam and 125 dry shot on 2005 A4.
Kit = Pro Dry Shot from Nitrous Direct
Install was peformed by Cold Fusion in Houston Texas
Based on referral from Nitrous Direct, i took my car to Cold Fusion for the install. Little did I know, they have never installed a kit on a C6. I know because they were calling my tuner for directions on how to wire it up. Wish I was informed from the get go or else i wouldnt have taken it there. First Mistake.
The install was a hack job. My window switch was literally hanging in front of my break pedal. My purge kit was also stuffed in my fender, loose. It is slapping around under the hood when its purged. I have a loud vibrating noise under the car somewhere most likely due to them not securing the nitrous lines. They didnt install the blowdown which I paid for as it is part of the kit.
To top it off, the installation was $725.00. It has been a nightmare from the beginning. Initial quote for install was $540.00, then it was in the $800 range but after arguing it came down $100.00.
Now for the dyno #'s, best pull of the night was a measly 402.93whp and 499 torque but that was a spike from the intial hit. Torque steadily declined from that point on.
Prior to nitrous install, the car put down 346whp with just vararam. I only picked up 62 whp on a 125 dry shot!!!!
This absolutely blows my mind. Total bill came out to 2k. The worst decision i have made thus far with this car. I am so tempted to take the damn thing off.
I will see if Cold Fusion rectifies this problem tomorrow.
Generally you can cut a dry shot in half and that's what you will see at the wheels. If you wanted to see more you should have gone with a wet shot.
BTW, installing a dry shot should take a couple hours at most, I'd ask for some cash back, you got raped.
Run down on the car..Vararam and 125 dry shot on 2005 A4.
Kit = Pro Dry Shot from Nitrous Direct
Install was peformed by Cold Fusion in Houston Texas
Based on referral from Nitrous Direct, i took my car to Cold Fusion for the install. Little did I know, they have never installed a kit on a C6. I know because they were calling my tuner for directions on how to wire it up. Wish I was informed from the get go or else i wouldnt have taken it there. First Mistake.
The install was a hack job. My window switch was literally hanging in front of my break pedal. My purge kit was also stuffed in my fender, loose. It is slapping around under the hood when its purged. I have a loud vibrating noise under the car somewhere most likely due to them not securing the nitrous lines. They didnt install the blowdown which I paid for as it is part of the kit.
To top it off, the installation was $725.00. It has been a nightmare from the beginning. Initial quote for install was $540.00, then it was in the $800 range but after arguing it came down $100.00.
Now for the dyno #'s, best pull of the night was a measly 402.93whp and 499 torque but that was a spike from the intial hit. Torque steadily declined from that point on.
Prior to nitrous install, the car put down 346whp with just vararam. I only picked up 62 whp on a 125 dry shot!!!!
This absolutely blows my mind. Total bill came out to 2k. The worst decision i have made thus far with this car. I am so tempted to take the damn thing off.
I will see if Cold Fusion rectifies this problem tomorrow.
You should talk to My hardtop on the C6Z06 forum.He is the man when it comes to 100Dry shot.
A dry shot should make as much power as wet. Nozzle placement is crucial though. Get them to put it back on the dyno and adjust the nozzle by turning it. The MAF sensor needs to be hit just right to get the most out of it. What did your AF ratio look like? Any knock retard? Was the bottle pressure around 950psi on all pulls?
A dry shot should make as much power as wet. Nozzle placement is crucial though. Get them to put it back on the dyno and adjust the nozzle by turning it. The MAF sensor needs to be hit just right to get the most out of it. What did your AF ratio look like? Any knock retard? Was the bottle pressure around 950psi on all pulls?
All pulls were around 950psi. I need to contact the tuner for AF and any Knock retard.
They did pull back 2 degrees of timing. Without the spray my car dyno'd at 323 rwh and 331 torque. Thats a 23 rwhp loss from the vararam only tune.
All pulls were around 950psi. I need to contact the tuner for AF and any Knock retard.
They did pull back 2 degrees of timing. Without the spray my car dyno'd at 323 rwh and 331 torque. Thats a 23 rwhp loss from the vararam only tune.
Did they put colder plugs in too? With a 125 shot they should've. Colder plugs can take a few HP away and the timing could account for most of the rest. They might have fattened up your AF ratio a little too, just to be on the safe side. A 23 RWHP loss is more than most see with a N2O tune... more like 10-15 RWHP. Did they scan the car to see if it was pulling timing on top of what they took out?
Isnt mti in houston? They have nitrous experience, for gods sake dont take the car BACK to an incompetent shop.
Call the nitrous guys that sent you to the shop, and demand at least half the money of the install as a credit back from them, since they recomended the shop.
You should talk to My hardtop on the C6Z06 forum.He is the man when it comes to 100Dry shot.
Thanks for the props Luweegy...check is in the mail
Seriously Mr. Ponchorello, your C6 should have made at LEAST 115HP and about 160 to 170TQ to the tires over your N/A pull!
I read your whole experience, and I am sorry to hear that you did not receive the service and results as expected. I hate hearing/reading things like this because it gives N2O a bad wrap.
Allow me to help you as much as can, we are all family here:
I will list a few methods of installation approaches; then if and when you respond, I will ask you to describe what/how it was done (what they did):
Okay, here we go:
*Whenever you use a dry shot, it is very important that you place the nozzle in a good air upstream location. Typically on Corvettes, right behind/after the air filter. Position the nozzle so that it sprays around the MAF so it creates a fog like effect. I found that by spraying directly into the maf, it can cause your kit to hit too hard. Yes, you may ask: “well, what is wrong with that?” Well really nothing, but it can shock your tires too hard. Besides, Dry kits are not as picky with bottle psi as with wet kits. So if you ever find yourself in a serious need to kick butt and the bottle is cool, then your set up will be more forgiving and give a decent increase in power as opposed to going pig rich like on a wet kit. Trust me, I’ve been there!
*Make sure that none of your NOS line(s) are kinked or worse yet, leaking.
*Changing your plugs to regular electrode is a MUST. I had good luck with NGK TR6 gapped between 0.032 and 0.040
*It is good practice to have bottle positioned correctly. If such positioning is not an option, then try to maintain your bottle as FULL as possible.
*Tuning, now here is where everything comes together. The beauty about our cars is: you can tune it to run as aggressive as the car will allow you N/A then have it fall into its pre-set N2O tune the millisecond the MAF, AIT sensor see the load/N2O (cold air). Yes, the LS edit and/or HP Tuner software have build in parameters that will allow you or your tuner to adjust tables where it will automatically add fuel, add spark, reduce timing and so on based on your car set up and amount of shot.
This should get you in the ball park.
Now as far as your dyno results, again, a Dry shot like Wet, will give you the power you are looking for. DON’T listen to those dry shot haters and so on. I personally like them ALL, but I found the dry shot to be the safest and easiest to live with on our LS1, LS2, and LS7 engines. I only named those three power plants because I’ve used it on all my Fbody’s and Corvettes with great success. Heck, even on my 5.0’s back in the day! Yeah, wet too.
If you want or can, ask those yoyos’s who did your install that they need to revisit the whole set up, or give some if not all of your money back! When installed and tuned properly, your car will make some sick power, especially in the torque dept. Many guys around here have that same kit you have and they are having a blast.
Based on your results, I personally don’t think your car is tuned correctly. Again, you can expect at least an 115hp and 160tq bump to the tires. Some cars may see more giving the same amount of shot. As you know, each car is different but not 62rwhp gain on a 125hp shot different, get my drift?
I hope this helps and please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thanks for the props Luweegy...check is in the mail
Seriously Mr. Ponchorello, your C6 should have made at LEAST 115HP and about 160 to 170TQ to the tires over your N/A pull!
I read your whole experience, and I am sorry to hear that you did not receive the service and results as expected. I hate hearing/reading things like this because it gives N2O a bad wrap.
Allow me to help you as much as can, we are all family here:
I will list a few methods of installation approaches; then if and when you respond, I will ask you to describe what/how it was done (what they did):
Okay, here we go:
*Whenever you use a dry shot, it is very important that you place the nozzle in a good air upstream location. Typically on Corvettes, right behind/after the air filter. Position the nozzle so that it sprays around the MAF so it creates a fog like effect. I found that by spraying directly into the maf, it can cause your kit to hit too hard. Yes, you may ask: “well, what is wrong with that?” Well really nothing, but it can shock your tires too hard. Besides, Dry kits are not as picky with bottle psi as with wet kits. So if you ever find yourself in a serious need to kick butt and the bottle is cool, then your set up will be more forgiving and give a decent increase in power as opposed to going pig rich like on a wet kit. Trust me, I’ve been there!
*Make sure that none of your NOS line(s) are kinked or worse yet, leaking.
*Changing your plugs to regular electrode is a MUST. I had good luck with NGK TR6 gapped between 0.032 and 0.040
*It is good practice to have bottle positioned correctly. If such positioning is not an option, then try to maintain your bottle as FULL as possible.
*Tuning, now here is where everything comes together. The beauty about our cars is: you can tune it to run as aggressive as the car will allow you N/A then have it fall into its pre-set N2O tune the millisecond the MAF, AIT sensor see the load/N2O (cold air). Yes, the LS edit and/or HP Tuner software have build in parameters that will allow you or your tuner to adjust tables where it will automatically add fuel, add spark, reduce timing and so on based on your car set up and amount of shot.
This should get you in the ball park.
Now as far as your dyno results, again, a Dry shot like Wet, will give you the power you are looking for. DON’T listen to those dry shot haters and so on. I personally like them ALL, but I found the dry shot to be the safest and easiest to live with on our LS1, LS2, and LS7 engines. I only named those three power plants because I’ve used it on all my Fbody’s and Corvettes with great success. Heck, even on my 5.0’s back in the day! Yeah, wet too.
If you want or can, ask those yoyos’s who did your install that they need to revisit the whole set up, or give some if not all of your money back! When installed and tuned properly, your car will make some sick power, especially in the torque dept. Many guys around here have that same kit you have and they are having a blast.
Based on your results, I personally don’t think your car is tuned correctly. Again, you can expect at least an 115hp and 160tq bump to the tires. Some cars may see more giving the same amount of shot. As you know, each car is different but not 62rwhp gain on a 125hp shot different, get my drift?
I hope this helps and please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thanks,
Carlos.
Thank you very much for chiming in on my post. I am very much needing some assistance.
1. The plugs have been replaced with TR6's
2. The nozzles are place above the filter on my vararam facing up. Please see attached photo.
3. I have the bottle positone sideways ( I know not ideal but I intend to keep it full)
4 The tuner retarded my timing 2degrees. For what I have been reading, the PCM retards timing automaticlly when reading extra fuel is detected by the MAF. When the shop dyno'd my car N/A, I lost 23 rwhp from my prior tune with just the Vararam. I went from 346 rwhp to 323 rwhp N/A. With the bottle on, the car dyno'd 402. A gain of about 80 rwhp but in all actuality only a net gain of about 56 rwhp from what was running before N/A. Could it be that on top of the tuner retarding 2 degrees, the PCM is also retarding on top of that? They are using LS2 edit and when I asked if I can keep my aggressive N/A tune, they said it was not possible. So basically my car is hella slow when not on the spray.
Thank you very much for chiming in on my post. I am very much needing some assistance.
1. The plugs have been replaced with TR6's
2. The nozzles are place above the filter on my vararam facing up. Please see attached photo.
3. I have the bottle positone sideways ( I know not ideal but I intend to keep it full)
4 The tuner retarded my timing 2degrees. For what I have been reading, the PCM retards timing automaticlly when reading extra fuel is detected by the MAF. When the shop dyno'd my car N/A, I lost 23 rwhp from my prior tune with just the Vararam. I went from 346 rwhp to 323 rwhp N/A. With the bottle on, the car dyno'd 402. A gain of about 80 rwhp but in all actuality only a net gain of about 56 rwhp from what was running before N/A. Could it be that on top of the tuner retarding 2 degrees, the PCM is also retarding on top of that? They are using LS2 edit and when I asked if I can keep my aggressive N/A tune, they said it was not possible. So basically my car is hella slow when not on the spray.
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Hello Patrick,
I saw the picture and it seems to be in-line to what must of us dry users do. After reading your replies, I believe that the lack of full potentiality from your kit derives from poor tuning.
Believe me, the LS edit or HP Tuners tuning software CAN adjust your tables (PE, AIT, Spark, Timing, Fuel, Injector pulse and so on) for nitrous if the end user knows how to use it. When done correctly, it is a sweet thing…you can drive around N/A on the most aggressive set your car allows, then as soon as the NOS is activated and sent initially through your MAF, then your pre-set N2O parameters are kick in.
There are countless of N2O specific threads regarding the tuning of dry kits on LS1Tech.com The shop you are currently dealing may not be aware of these features! I too experienced a similar scenario when I first moved here to Dallas Texas from Chicago. Back home many guys use dry shots due to the ease of hiding and installation, and split tuning capabilities. Again, a wet shot WILL NOT allow you to run on a good/aggressive N/A tune when the bottle is deactivated. Thus far, I found Texas to be a mainly a wet kit using state; many shops are not aware of the tuning parameters when using a dry kit.
Yes, your car will run like a DOG if they are reducing additional timing on top of your already timing reduction N/A. It sounds that you may have a wet kit tune AND plus 2* degrees reduction. Typically, I wouldn’t have an issues with more timing reduction, but only on top (5,800 to lets say 6,500 rpm’s). I will not be surprise if you don’t even feel the hit when is activated on the streets.
I could really help you out if you were here in Dallas. I know a few local guys that would make that bad boy snap your rib cage based on that current set up you have!
Let me know how you make out; if those guys cannot tune it, then it will be necessary to seek out for an experienced N2O tuning shop.
I think you are right in that it is the tuner that is more at fault with not knowing the full capabilities of a dry tune. From what I gathered, they have only dealt with wet kits.
Yes, you are right in that I do not feel the increase in performance. But that can be said for all rpms except for maybe around 3k when it feels good but then it falls on its face afterward.
What shop(s) do you recomment in Dallas? Perhaps I can have HPE contact a shop in dallas to assist the tune.
Heck, I am more than willing to drive to Dallas to get this issue resolved. The frustrations are mounting as each minute goes by in this car.
Last edited by Ponchorello; 01-25-2007 at 12:47 PM.
I think you are right in that it is the tuner that is more at fault with not knowing the full capabilities of a dry tune. From what I gathered, they have only dealt with wet kits.
Yes, you are right in that I do not feel the increase in performance. But that can be said for all rpms except for maybe around 3k when it feels good but then it falls on its face afterward.
What shop(s) do you recomment in Dallas? Perhaps I can have HPE contact a shop in dallas to assist the tune.
Heck, I am more than willing to drive to Dallas to get this issue resolved. The frustrations are mounting as each minute goes by in this car.
Hello Patrick,
From my understanding, HPE is also a wet kit shop but I could be wrong.
I would contact: Pat at Quality Motorsports: (972) 754-5346
21st Century Musclecars (972) 417-7177 and RPM ask for Brian or Keith (972) 434-2151. Tell any or all of these guys that Carlos with the Black C6 Z06 sent ya!
So either one of these shops are great with dry kits or do you have a preference?
And yeah, HPE is wet kit shop. I dont think they work much or if at all with dry.
As it seems, nobody here in Houston is capable of tuning my car on a dry shot. Come to find out the original shopt tuned my car WITHOUT a wideband. That is absolutely scary. Thank god I only hit the spray a couple of times since I got it back.
Well...I am on a road trip to RPM to have Keith dyno tune my car. This Saturday I get to stretch my cars legs out.
This whole nitrous install has cost a pretty penny.
Last edited by Ponchorello; 04-28-2007 at 07:12 PM.
Jez, I feel really bad for you. Sounds like Cold Fusion gave you a good @$$ raping and then HPE of all people dyno tunes your nitrous setup without a wideband?!? Did they even log any data like KR?
As mentioned above a dry kit can be tuned to full potential for both NA and N2O. To oversimplyfy it, rather than taking timing out on the high octane table all that needs to be done is edit the table that takes timing out for really hot IAT's (IAT Spark Advance Correction) and make it also take timing out for really cold IAT's. Anything in between is not adjusted and left tuned for ideal NA. When the N2O hits the IAT the table kicks in and retards the timing.
If I had to recommend a shop in the Houston area it would be G-Force down in Pearland.
__________________
Bill Winters
'05 Black on black M6 Z51 - TTIX and forged 408 in the works.
"When life hands you lemons you upgrade to a C6." - Me
Last edited by 5 Liter Eater; 01-26-2007 at 12:58 PM.
Based on your results, I personally don’t think your car is tuned correctly. Again, you can expect at least an 115hp and 160tq bump to the tires. Some cars may see more giving the same amount of shot. As you know, each car is different but not 62rwhp gain on a 125hp shot different, get my drift?
Corvette Store
100 DRY Shot = Huge Dissapointing Install and dyno #'s
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