[ZR1] ** Z06 vs ZR1 Build **
10-23-2014, 11:35 AM
#44
I finally finished the ZR1 up and thought I would finish up this thread for any who were interested.
The ZR1 build: BTR ZR1 Heads, BTR Stg 3 PDS, BTR 660 Platinum, I.D 1300 w/DSX Flex Fuel, Synergy Intake, Ported LS7 TB, LPE Snout w/2.6, ATI 14%, ARH 2", Catless X, Akro, MGW, AFX / NTK, Denso 22, Straightline Performance Bricks & Reservoir, Katech Heat X-Changer, Forgeline GA3 Hybrids w/Ti hardware, Nitto Invo / NT05R, Tune by Dr Phil.
This combo on E85 was running out of fuel on top. Fuel pressure was dropping to .75 ish. On 93 pump it was absolutely fine. The car was checked on the same dyno each time in an Air Conditioned room with a $3000 NTK Lambda each time. Then hours of VE and fine tuning by Dr Phil.
Here is my take on the 427 Z vs ZR1: I personally liked the 427. Yes the ZR1 was faster when both builds were done, but not by much. It was mainly faster in top of 3rd and 4th, down low and second the 427 actually feels better and revs much faster. Driving the car around town and just out fooling around the 427 N/A has way more snap and throttle response and it runs cool as the other side of the pillow. The amount of heat generated by the ZR1 is effing crazy even on cool weather days it runs pretty warm.
A built 427 in N/A form (preferably with a 110 cam) and all lightened up is so nimble and snappy, revs to the moon, runs cool and with the heads corrected seems to be bullet proof. So it would be my overall pick between the two.
If I was shooting for a max effort type car I would simply forge the 427 and add a FX ProCharger and go that route.
Butthurt Disclaimer: Both cars are very nice cars and have their pro's and con's. I am not saying one is better than the other. I am just stating my personal choices.
The ZR1 build: BTR ZR1 Heads, BTR Stg 3 PDS, BTR 660 Platinum, I.D 1300 w/DSX Flex Fuel, Synergy Intake, Ported LS7 TB, LPE Snout w/2.6, ATI 14%, ARH 2", Catless X, Akro, MGW, AFX / NTK, Denso 22, Straightline Performance Bricks & Reservoir, Katech Heat X-Changer, Forgeline GA3 Hybrids w/Ti hardware, Nitto Invo / NT05R, Tune by Dr Phil.
This combo on E85 was running out of fuel on top. Fuel pressure was dropping to .75 ish. On 93 pump it was absolutely fine. The car was checked on the same dyno each time in an Air Conditioned room with a $3000 NTK Lambda each time. Then hours of VE and fine tuning by Dr Phil.
Here is my take on the 427 Z vs ZR1: I personally liked the 427. Yes the ZR1 was faster when both builds were done, but not by much. It was mainly faster in top of 3rd and 4th, down low and second the 427 actually feels better and revs much faster. Driving the car around town and just out fooling around the 427 N/A has way more snap and throttle response and it runs cool as the other side of the pillow. The amount of heat generated by the ZR1 is effing crazy even on cool weather days it runs pretty warm.
A built 427 in N/A form (preferably with a 110 cam) and all lightened up is so nimble and snappy, revs to the moon, runs cool and with the heads corrected seems to be bullet proof. So it would be my overall pick between the two.
If I was shooting for a max effort type car I would simply forge the 427 and add a FX ProCharger and go that route.
Butthurt Disclaimer: Both cars are very nice cars and have their pro's and con's. I am not saying one is better than the other. I am just stating my personal choices.
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furiousox (02-29-2016)
02-29-2016, 12:02 PM
#45
I know Im bringing this back from the dead but Im wondering if you ever changed your mind about which car was better after spending more time with the zr1.
Was it really "not much faster" than the z06? It had almost 200hp more...and monster torque at 2900rpm.
Could it have been that you were just not ready to get rid of the red z06 and memories become better than reality?
I got SMOKED in my camaro by a HCI e85 z06 yesterday and now realize I need a monster...thought the zr1 would be the better platform but now im confused.. I never wanted to own another vette that STINKS like gas due to a cam(LS7). Didnt see a cam in your zr1 mod list.
785hp vs 610hp not much faster?
I would really appreciate any response. Thank you for sharing this awesome info.
Was it really "not much faster" than the z06? It had almost 200hp more...and monster torque at 2900rpm.
Could it have been that you were just not ready to get rid of the red z06 and memories become better than reality?
I got SMOKED in my camaro by a HCI e85 z06 yesterday and now realize I need a monster...thought the zr1 would be the better platform but now im confused.. I never wanted to own another vette that STINKS like gas due to a cam(LS7). Didnt see a cam in your zr1 mod list.
785hp vs 610hp not much faster?
I would really appreciate any response. Thank you for sharing this awesome info.
Last edited by SgtRod; 02-29-2016 at 12:04 PM.
02-29-2016, 12:19 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
I know Im bringing this back from the dead but Im wondering if you ever changed your mind about which car was better after spending more time with the zr1.
Was it really "not much faster" than the z06? It had almost 200hp more...and monster torque at 2900rpm.
Could it have been that you were just not ready to get rid of the red z06 and memories become better than reality?
I got SMOKED in my camaro by a HCI e85 z06 yesterday and now realize I need a monster...thought the zr1 would be the better platform but now im confused.. I never wanted to own another vette that STINKS like gas due to a cam(LS7). Didn't see a cam in your zr1 mod list.
785hp vs 610hp not much faster?
I would really appreciate any response. Thank you for sharing this awesome info.
Was it really "not much faster" than the z06? It had almost 200hp more...and monster torque at 2900rpm.
Could it have been that you were just not ready to get rid of the red z06 and memories become better than reality?
I got SMOKED in my camaro by a HCI e85 z06 yesterday and now realize I need a monster...thought the zr1 would be the better platform but now im confused.. I never wanted to own another vette that STINKS like gas due to a cam(LS7). Didn't see a cam in your zr1 mod list.
785hp vs 610hp not much faster?
I would really appreciate any response. Thank you for sharing this awesome info.
Both Ligenfelter and Katech have a package at roughly 610 to 650 to 660 hp.
Ligenfelter at 660 hp - not as streetable as their 630 hp package. The E85 version of Katech will do 650 hp; again with a choice of one of their torquer cams.Its my impression that these are not as streetable the more horsepower you put down. They offer the choice of a flex fuel sensor too; so once you've run the gas tank down; you can re-flash the ECU to run off a dyno tune for E85 or 91/93 octane. The E85 tune require larger injectors and a higher volume fuel pump due to the E85 having a lower energy content; but in some cases the E85 tune will net you an extra 40 hp; remember E70 or E85 is 105 octane and 109 octane. Many stations will run either E70/E77 or E85 depending on the time of year.
Bucking and surging will turn my wife off, so whatever I do; I'm not going for the last 20 to 30 hp at the cost of streetability. I have a 3000GT where I did that and on my lists of fixes is replacing the cam back to the original in th ecxar. It bucks and surges like crazy, all for the extra 20 hp I netted; what a mistake.
That said, I'd think the extra 140 to 170 hp would definitely be felt; and would ultimately dust the Z06. The issue here is that the torque for the NA engine starts coming on early; and it feels faster light to light. The caveat here is that the roots style SC does a better job at the low end than a centrifugal style SC...so again it might just be memories are better than reality.
In city traffic, an NA car and a SC car is a drivers race from light to light, based more on skill than engine. HP = top speed, torque = elapsed time. I personally love the LS7 and had a family friend with a '69 L-88; so the 427 was the engine of choice. I was too young to get one when they were reasonably priced ('69 L-88 today=$500K). I grew up wanting one; and now I've got two - one in the'09 Z06 and the second in a 2015 Z/28 being delivered this week.
Last edited by The_Raging_Bull; 02-29-2016 at 12:29 PM.
02-29-2016, 02:44 PM
#47
Premium Supporting Vendor
I'll jump in here. I've got an '09 Z06 that I'm ready to send to either Katech. Ligenfelter, or Hennessy. Hennessy is doing a 667 hp Z/28 build on an NA LS7, on top of your lower engine; which is unchanged as received from Chevy. Fact is all of the packages in this reply do not entail any work on the lower end of the engine I dont know his details yet; but the YouTube video seems pretty smooth. He's in Sealy TX I'm in Tulsa, so I might end up going with him.
Both Ligenfelter and Katech have a package at roughly 610 to 650 to 660 hp.
Ligenfelter at 660 hp - not as streetable as their 630 hp package. The E85 version of Katech will do 650 hp; again with a choice of one of their torquer cams.Its my impression that these are not as streetable the more horsepower you put down. They offer the choice of a flex fuel sensor too; so once you've run the gas tank down; you can re-flash the ECU to run off a dyno tune for E85 or 91/93 octane. The E85 tune require larger injectors and a higher volume fuel pump due to the E85 having a lower energy content; but in some cases the E85 tune will net you an extra 40 hp; remember E70 or E85 is 105 octane and 109 octane. Many stations will run either E70/E77 or E85 depending on the time of year.
Bucking and surging will turn my wife off, so whatever I do; I'm not going for the last 20 to 30 hp at the cost of streetability. I have a 3000GT where I did that and on my lists of fixes is replacing the cam back to the original in th ecxar. It bucks and surges like crazy, all for the extra 20 hp I netted; what a mistake.
That said, I'd think the extra 140 to 170 hp would definitely be felt; and would ultimately dust the Z06. The issue here is that the torque for the NA engine starts coming on early; and it feels faster light to light. The caveat here is that the roots style SC does a better job at the low end than a centrifugal style SC...so again it might just be memories are better than reality.
In city traffic, an NA car and a SC car is a drivers race from light to light, based more on skill than engine. HP = top speed, torque = elapsed time. I personally love the LS7 and had a family friend with a '69 L-88; so the 427 was the engine of choice. I was too young to get one when they were reasonably priced ('69 L-88 today=$500K). I grew up wanting one; and now I've got two - one in the'09 Z06 and the second in a 2015 Z/28 being delivered this week.
Both Ligenfelter and Katech have a package at roughly 610 to 650 to 660 hp.
Ligenfelter at 660 hp - not as streetable as their 630 hp package. The E85 version of Katech will do 650 hp; again with a choice of one of their torquer cams.Its my impression that these are not as streetable the more horsepower you put down. They offer the choice of a flex fuel sensor too; so once you've run the gas tank down; you can re-flash the ECU to run off a dyno tune for E85 or 91/93 octane. The E85 tune require larger injectors and a higher volume fuel pump due to the E85 having a lower energy content; but in some cases the E85 tune will net you an extra 40 hp; remember E70 or E85 is 105 octane and 109 octane. Many stations will run either E70/E77 or E85 depending on the time of year.
Bucking and surging will turn my wife off, so whatever I do; I'm not going for the last 20 to 30 hp at the cost of streetability. I have a 3000GT where I did that and on my lists of fixes is replacing the cam back to the original in th ecxar. It bucks and surges like crazy, all for the extra 20 hp I netted; what a mistake.
That said, I'd think the extra 140 to 170 hp would definitely be felt; and would ultimately dust the Z06. The issue here is that the torque for the NA engine starts coming on early; and it feels faster light to light. The caveat here is that the roots style SC does a better job at the low end than a centrifugal style SC...so again it might just be memories are better than reality.
In city traffic, an NA car and a SC car is a drivers race from light to light, based more on skill than engine. HP = top speed, torque = elapsed time. I personally love the LS7 and had a family friend with a '69 L-88; so the 427 was the engine of choice. I was too young to get one when they were reasonably priced ('69 L-88 today=$500K). I grew up wanting one; and now I've got two - one in the'09 Z06 and the second in a 2015 Z/28 being delivered this week.
02-29-2016, 03:00 PM
#48
Drifting
OP where in Texas are you located? Curious what airfield events you're lining up.
Your ZR1 is almost identical to my 09 in mods. Or was, 785whp wasn't fast enough for me as it was pretty much equal to my previous H/C/Nos Z06 making 710whp. The trap at ET in the 1/4 where the same, 10.x at 141mph. I agree the additional 200lbs is noticeable. There's something to be said for a 3000lb car with lots of low end TQ in a roll race.
Your ZR1 is almost identical to my 09 in mods. Or was, 785whp wasn't fast enough for me as it was pretty much equal to my previous H/C/Nos Z06 making 710whp. The trap at ET in the 1/4 where the same, 10.x at 141mph. I agree the additional 200lbs is noticeable. There's something to be said for a 3000lb car with lots of low end TQ in a roll race.
02-29-2016, 04:56 PM
#49
Cams STINK like gas...sticks to your clothes and stinks up your garage and home...people say its a tune thing....not my experience...had one of the best tuners tune mine and it still stunk like ****
02-29-2016, 05:11 PM
#50
OP where in Texas are you located? Curious what airfield events you're lining up.
Your ZR1 is almost identical to my 09 in mods. Or was, 785whp wasn't fast enough for me as it was pretty much equal to my previous H/C/Nos Z06 making 710whp. The trap at ET in the 1/4 where the same, 10.x at 141mph. I agree the additional 200lbs is noticeable. There's something to be said for a 3000lb car with lots of low end TQ in a roll race.
Your ZR1 is almost identical to my 09 in mods. Or was, 785whp wasn't fast enough for me as it was pretty much equal to my previous H/C/Nos Z06 making 710whp. The trap at ET in the 1/4 where the same, 10.x at 141mph. I agree the additional 200lbs is noticeable. There's something to be said for a 3000lb car with lots of low end TQ in a roll race.
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball
) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.
02-29-2016, 07:12 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Most of our races are in Mexico
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball
) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.
02-29-2016, 07:25 PM
#52
lol...This is an old thread, someone opened it back up. You ran a katech 110 N/A car for a while and should have some decent input on the question. I would love another BR7 / TiMo headed E85 Z06 with a 501 cam. That would be a really nice car. I found a 2006 Victory red, one owner in San Antonio with 2k miles for $40k. Very tempting
03-01-2016, 10:40 AM
#53
Most of our races are in Mexico
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball
) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.After I get bored of the ZR1 I'm debating a GTR or ponying up the cash for a Gallardo. Huracan/Aventador is just too much out of my range haha.
03-01-2016, 10:46 AM
#54
Drifting
Most of our races are in Mexico
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.
I really prefer the Z06 when it is setup with Katechs 110 or 501 and sub 3000 lbs. It runs cooler, sounds super nasty and is just a fun car to drive. A flex fuel 501 car would be super nasty IMO. Forging a 427 for boost takes away for the lightweight internals that seem to wrap so quickly. If 800+ whp is your goal a ZR1 will make that easy with a fuel system and its tough to beat that factory forged motor for dependability.
I am currently in a 1200 hp GTR, stepped out of the Corvette stuff for a bit. Bought a 2015 C7Z and just didnt like it for a variety of reasons (even with a Halltech, nine ball
) The ZR1 is a bullet proof tank compared to a C7Z, that is 100x easier to mod.My ZR already made 800 (798 actually) on the stock fuel system. Fore stage 3 just went on with several other things this week. Factory pistons aren't forged though. Rods and pistons may be next down the road.
03-01-2016, 01:35 PM
#55
You have similar taste in cars as me haha. My recent ZR1 purchase and build is my first vette but if I had went Z06 it would have been similar minus the coilovers for sure.
After I get bored of the ZR1 I'm debating a GTR or ponying up the cash for a Gallardo. Huracan/Aventador is just too much out of my range haha.
After I get bored of the ZR1 I'm debating a GTR or ponying up the cash for a Gallardo. Huracan/Aventador is just too much out of my range haha.
03-01-2016, 01:39 PM
#56
So you live in Mexico Texas? lol You mentioned racing on the airfield as well so I was assuming you've run at TI or RR here.
My ZR already made 800 (798 actually) on the stock fuel system. Fore stage 3 just went on with several other things this week. Factory pistons aren't forged though. Rods and pistons may be next down the road.
My ZR already made 800 (798 actually) on the stock fuel system. Fore stage 3 just went on with several other things this week. Factory pistons aren't forged though. Rods and pistons may be next down the road.
03-01-2016, 02:22 PM
#57
Yeah they are damn awesome. I just know I'd miss rowing the gears haha! That's what has held me back I think. I'd have to find a 6M G, which seems to be difficult some times as well.
03-01-2016, 04:35 PM
#58
03-01-2016, 05:13 PM
#59