QUIKAG

I've been on this forum since 2000, so I hope it can stay here rather than get moved to Other Cars due to better visibility from the ZR1 owners. I've been out of school for 10 years and got an '01 C5 right out of school and two years ago got a new '08 Coupe. I love them both and have tracked both extensively. The '08 is a nice upgrade over the '01 and makes quite a bit more power, but there are still deficiencies, particularly with the amount of rubber I can get under the car, the brakes, and the engine oil cooler are all deficient.

So, I'm now on the fence about getting a leftover '09 ACR or waiting another year or so and possibly getting a ZR1. From a pure track day standpoint, I have reason to believe the ACR may be the 'better' car, but I firmly believe the ZR1 is the better all-around car without a doubt. I think the ZR1's will come down to $100k in the near future even with the upgraded interior package and I have indication to believe, I can get a leftover '09 ACR in the low 80's range, so about a $20k diff in price.

Those of you who track your cars regularly, what do you think of the ZR1 vs. Viper ACR? Durability, maintenance, engine robustness, brakes, etc? Any comments would be appreciated.

william wyatt

An ACR will eat a zr1 for lunch at just about any track.Way more downforce,much better tires.
The only chance a zr1 would have is on a track like road america with long straights.

Dicecal

IMHO, eat for lunch is a very strong statement. The ACR was faster around the Ring, but like you stated, the ACR was on cup sports,the ZR1 on run flats! The ZR1 is lighter, more HP & TQ. For a dedicated track car, no doubt the ACR is very cool!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc

tjZ06

I'm curious how you find issue with the amount of rubber you can get under your C6. You can get 315/335s Front/Rear under a C6 (yes, a C6 non-Z) easily.

Honestly, for the $ if you want a track day car you're better off building the C6 than getting either an ACR or ZR1. Out of those two though the ACR is the better track car and we've yet to see how much it'll cost to keep the ZR1s carbon brakes happy.

-TJ

jvp

Ultimately, the question is: what are you going to do with this car? Is it only going to be a track day car, like the title says? Or do you expect you'll drive it on the road as well? Your answer will matter.

For pure, unadulterated track terrorizing, the ACR will fit the bill, assuming you have the required skills to pilot it around a track at or near its limits. Unfortunately, as configured for track time, it's not practical, nor legal, to drive on the road. And I'm not just referring to the tires, either. The lower splitter makes it ineligible to drive on our roads in the US, which is why it's not attached by the Dodge dealer when the car's sold.

Also, I understand that while the Viper's suspension is adjustable, doing so will void the warranty. Apparently there are stickers that are covering the adjustment bolts. In order to turn the bolts, you have to rip the stickers. Doing so voids the warranty. I have no first hand experience with this bit, it's something I remember reading in a review a year or two ago, so don't take that bit as gospel. More research would be necessary.

The ZR1 is a different beast altogether, specially if you get a '10 or newer. It won't have the same gummy tires on it, or the front splitter that helps the Viper, but it's no slouch. The supercharged LS9 provides gobs and gobs of torque, everywhere in the rev range. Literally, there's nowhere in the rev range, at any speed, in any gear, that you'll find yourself lacking for grunt. It really is just that amazing. The RTD system which has been overhauled for the ZR1 is second to none in the industry, for both track and street driving. Little imperfections on the track surface are barely felt by the driver, and don't upset the car at all. It's stable, flat, and predictable.

Assuming you do the apropos work to burnish the brake pads in, you'll have no problem with those, either. They're simply the best set of brakes ever installed on a Corvette from the factory, and they'll easily outperform and outlast the the iron brakes on the Viper. Further, they're lighter, which always helps. So far, I've had no problem with the brakes on my ZR1 at the track (or on the road).

And, with the 2010s, you get PTM, which Viper doesn't have (and probably won't ever). Immediately, the purists are going to say, "Well, I don't need a nanny. I disable them all!" You'll be stupid to disable the PTM. It's a cheater's tool, and it makes you faster. Even the folks that are great drivers find better lap times with PTM than without.

But ultimately where the ZR1 shines way over the Viper is the end of the day. Snick the suspension setting to Tour, pop the A/C on, crank some tunes, and drive home comfortably (and legally). Then the next day, get up and run errands with it, go grocery shopping, commute to work, etc. You can't realistically do all that with an ACR (though there will be some goofballs that say they do).

jas

MeHeartCorvettes

For the few tenths more that you might POSSIBLY be able to wring out of the ACR (possibly being the key word, if you are skilled enough to push this monster to the limit), the ZR1 has sooo much more to offer for enjoyment well beyond the track, and will run pretty much neck & neck.

If you plan on trailering to the track anyways, and really want to keep the extra $15k in your pocket, then go for the ACR. Wicked cool to look at, runs like a raped ape, scares women and children into exhile , leaves much to be desired in terms of pure peformance by just about every other manufacturer out there, but is quite "raw". The ZR1 is just about every bit as good, but quite more civilized.

Either way, you will be happy

Mr. Gizmo

ACR definently over the zr1 for a track car. Or used 2006 to 2007 Z06 with suspension, engine, brake and tire upgrades, total investment under 50 to 60k and you'd have a better track car then the viper ACR or Zr1 - and you'd have 30 to 50k left over to fix any thing that might break.

tomsws6

the Z's are around 103k now

Onerareviper

A truck, trailer, and this

http://jalopnik.com/5423357/dodge-vi...turn+key-racer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPazo...ayer_embedded#!

would be extremely cool... And if Dodge doesn't bring out another Viper, or one that is half-asp, you've got yourself one VERY collectable car.

QUIKAG

thanks for the comments, the ACR would be fun because it would be something different as I've had two new Vettes already in my short driving career, but at the same time, I do think the ZR1 would be pretty incredible and better all around car. As it sits, my '08 is about 40% track time, 60% weekend/evening cruising, so I know the 60% cruising would be pretty awful after a while in the ACR.

On the '08, nothing really wrong with it, but I really would like to get some 315+ in front and 335+ in the rear and that's not going to happen without some mods. Currently I'm running 275/305 R888 and they are okay, but I'm definitely grip limited.

niphilli2

On thing to think about is the stability control program of the Z. Some of the Macho guys out there like to say they switch these kinds of things off, I am not one of them. My C5Z is much more enojyable for agressive driving with the cyber nanny switched on. THe ZR has a much upgraded version omitted from other corvette models. I think the only safety net you have in the ACR is sheetmetal

petefias

I'm not a big fan of the Viper, but the race would be determined by the driver not the car IMO.

The ACR might be a little quicker on a tight track with equal drivers, but eat the ZR1 for lunch? Don't think so.

CDNZR

I don't know if this is a good indication the potential of the ZR1 to be a track car. Look no further than LG ZR1 here that won the 341 Challenge. And there was an ACR entered in this event as well. Now, I am not sure if there were any HP mod to the LG car but for sure a lowered ride, front and rear spoilers?

No one here said anything about the Z06 Carbon Edition. I say that's a serious track car as well? Same brakes, suspensions and aero goodies that's in the ZR1?

Onerareviper

Ummmmm, the stock (from what I was told) ACR was the fastest car at the event. By 2 seconds (3:19) with a FIRST TIME driver at this event. He is executive editor at Car & Driver magazine. Cars were required to have minimum 100 tread wear rating, and the ACR has 80. Therefore, it was non-official. Imagine what a pro would have done with experience at this hill climb Not to mention Lou's ZR1 was far from stock (from what I understand - could be wrong....). Imagine how large this gap would have been if it was? And imagine if the ACR had a pro behind the wheel with hill experience + as much track experience with the ACR as Lou has with Vettes?

The ACR is a track weapon. It is breaking track records left and right. Sorry folks, the ZR1 is not 'tenths' behind. It is 'seconds' behind. And 'seconds' are significant. Of course this is assuming equal drivers + these ticks really mean that much to you. If you're a track rat they might. For me they don't. Both cars are plenty fast enough.

Therefore, I think one must decide what is more important? Track times, or daily driving. Where it gets complicated is if you plan to drive occasionally/weekends. Personally, I believe any Viper is fine for these purposes. BUT, only you can determine if this is true. Bottom line - Go test drive one and see for yourself. You can't go wrong either way....

JDRacing

Folks who don't race wheel to wheel tend to underestimate the importance of tires IMHO. Even if you're a track rat, unless you're vigilantly watching lap times and noting results with certain tire brands/types/compounds/wear life, you're not likely to realize that you're going substantially faster with certain tires optimized for the track, as opposed to dual purpose street/track tires, as opposed to run flats. All of this has everything to do with the differences in tire design and purposes and much less to do with differences in two cars of the caliber of the ACR and the ZR1

Any of the great books/series on racing out there (e.g. Ross Bentley's "Speed Secrets") not only emphasize tires, but identify tire traction and grip as the most significant factor in road racing. Traction/grip is used during braking, turning (cornering) and exiting (driving/accelerating) out of the corner, and optimizing the division of available traction among these competing purposes in a turn is a (if not the) primary difference between going as fast as you can, and simply having fun taking hot laps. If the latter is your purpose, either car under consideration will so far exceed your goals, that the decision should be based on other things, such as price, which car you like better on a visceral level, etc.

So, when folks talk about a certain car going faster than another at a given track, my first questions are always "what tires were they on, and how much tread life was on it"? For example, the current ACR and the ZR1 lapped within 0.8 seconds of each other at Laguna Seca (around 1:35, which is damn fast for a car driven on the street). But those times are utterly meaningless unless we know the particulars of what tires were on the car, which could EASILY account for many seconds either way.

Same with the Nurburgring comparison, and the 7:22 of the ACR on Sport Cups vs. 7:26 of the ZR1 on the PS2 runflats. Four seconds is nothing on a 14 mile track if the rubber isn't identical, and those that think it means the ACR is a faster track car haven't spent much time exploring the limits of grip on various tires--or even the same tires at different points in their tread life.

In fact, asking the questions posed above could easily lead an experienced driver/racer to conclude that the ZR1 is the faster track car, but that the ACR had better tires for that particular application. I'm not saying that's a true statement, but it's certainly every bit as accurate as saying that the ACR platform, without regard to tires, is faster around the 'Ring than the ZR1 platform. From this particular comparison, we simply don't know the answer--but we do know both cars are fast as hell.

Of course, engine, suspension, brakes and all the other things which cause a car to be engineered for speed are critical. But the ONLY way one can compare those things is to eliminate the most critical difference between any two vehicles: the tires and the grip/traction they provide under the conditions on the track being run that day.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has never worked his *** off on a given day trying to produce a lap time on a race tire with a dozen sessions on them, only to replace them with new identical tires the same day and then go 3 seconds a lap faster without even trying.

Cloaked323

If it's just for the track "gulp" Viper ACR.

Onerareviper

Without question, tires are the most important part of the car - excluding driver. Adjustability is probably the next (at least for track cars). With the ACR, you can adjust aero + suspension + ride height, etc... You can fine tune the car for the track you're at, to an extent.... The ACR is 'probably' the closest you can get to buying a street legal race car, although it is far from a true race car. A large N/A motor also helps vs. forced induction. Massive downforce is another huge plus. A proper seat/belts for racing also helps. It has so much over the ZR1 for track use, it's really not fair to compare IMHO. Just like it's not fair to compare everyday drivability from the ZR1 to the ACR. Honestly, I can't imagine anyone choosing the ZR1 over the ACR for track use (unless they plan to really modify the car or have a vested interest (ie - business) using the ZR1). And I can't imagine anyone choosing the ACR over the ZR1 for daily use. Again, the tricky part is occasional street use.... What's more important? More comfort, or a few ticks at the track? Only the OP can decide that... Of course there's other things that could tip the scales, but most of those are subjective. But heck, you've already owned 2 Vettes + raced. Why not try something different? If you enjoy track events, the Viper Club would be right up your alley. And if you decide you like Vettes better, just buy the latest & greatest C7 a few years from now. The ACR will hold it's value nicely, and you get to experience something different. Nothing wrong with that... Matter of fact, my next car will not be a Viper for that exact reason. I just want to try something different.....

jvp

And as pointed out earlier, it's also far from street legal in its track form. :-)

This coming from someone that hasn't driven a ZR1 on the track I assume? While I used to be an anti-FI guy, I'm not any longer. How does the Viper's NA motor help compared to the ZR1's FI'd one?

jas

tjZ06

The ACR is 100% street legal. The ACR-X is not.

The ACR is built as a track car, the ZR1 is built as a GT that does well on a track (arguably in shorter stints/lower heat). They are very different cars really, they just happen to be in a similar price-point and get cross-shopped by some.

-TJ

jvp

Which was the version of the Viper that set the 7:22 at the 'Ring last year? ACR or ACR-X?

jas