[ZR1] brake mods? Im swapping out for SS lines and racing fluid
11-24-2009, 07:06 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
brake mods? Im swapping out for SS lines and racing fluid
Well,
im no track driver, but I am a little dissapointed
, I was logging with the new tune yesterday on a closed road and went flat out in 3rd starting at 3000rpms, all the way to the mid of 4th. Thats when i decided to start braking, all of a sudden I feel the car isnt stopping as fast, and start to brake harder until the pedal was to the ground and the car wasnt stopping the way it should. 
Freaked the **** out, and drove it to the dealer right away. When the service dept. saw the car they were telling me that they liked the carbon fiber parts that I installed, which tells me how much they know about this car
.
Anyways, we took the wheels off, took the calibers off, checked the pads, rotors, everything seemed fine from a visual inspection. Bleed the brake lines, there was some air in there although it was little. Put everything back, re-torqued everything to spec.
Drove the car, I tried full braking for the first time from 30mph, 50, and 60mph the car seems to brake fine, but what happened before that was a mystery to me.
Anyways, im swapping out the rubber brake lines for SS lines, and changing the brake fluid. I would like to hear opinions on this, because I personally dont think that Dot3 is a good brake fluid for hard braking, low boiling temp etc...
Im hoping this small mod would result in a positive change.
Also, since I had another problem that I posted off before. We will be checking the rake of the vehicle, and doing a proper alignment. The guy who does those is a professional race driver, so its his game.
Wish me luck, ill update this thread later today.
im no track driver, but I am a little dissapointed
, I was logging with the new tune yesterday on a closed road and went flat out in 3rd starting at 3000rpms, all the way to the mid of 4th. Thats when i decided to start braking, all of a sudden I feel the car isnt stopping as fast, and start to brake harder until the pedal was to the ground and the car wasnt stopping the way it should. Freaked the **** out, and drove it to the dealer right away. When the service dept. saw the car they were telling me that they liked the carbon fiber parts that I installed, which tells me how much they know about this car
.Anyways, we took the wheels off, took the calibers off, checked the pads, rotors, everything seemed fine from a visual inspection. Bleed the brake lines, there was some air in there although it was little. Put everything back, re-torqued everything to spec.
Drove the car, I tried full braking for the first time from 30mph, 50, and 60mph the car seems to brake fine, but what happened before that was a mystery to me.
Anyways, im swapping out the rubber brake lines for SS lines, and changing the brake fluid. I would like to hear opinions on this, because I personally dont think that Dot3 is a good brake fluid for hard braking, low boiling temp etc...
Im hoping this small mod would result in a positive change.
Also, since I had another problem that I posted off before. We will be checking the rake of the vehicle, and doing a proper alignment. The guy who does those is a professional race driver, so its his game.
Wish me luck, ill update this thread later today.
11-24-2009, 11:53 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
SS lines are pretty, but no better than factory for performance and worse for longevity, as they can kink and fray after a while. Unlikely that you were boiling fluid with one hard stop. I've heard of ABS systems becoming confused if you brake hard on a bumpy surface, what was the condition of the pavement?
11-25-2009, 12:10 AM
#3
Hey, I get wanting to make your car 'better' however you define that.
So, go ahead and put in Racing Fluid and install the SS lines. Just don't expect either mod to help you stop faster on the streets of Dubai. If you are not taking your car to the track where it will see a substantial number of high to low speed braking events, you will never see or feel any difference with the DOT 4 fluid other than in your wallet.
No need to justify either modification if that is what you want to do with your money.
Can't help you with what you experienced either. But pretty sure the fluid and lines had nothing to do with it.
It really takes a lot to boil even DOT 3 fluid. I seriously doubt that was your issue.
'Mod' away. Have fun with it.
So, go ahead and put in Racing Fluid and install the SS lines. Just don't expect either mod to help you stop faster on the streets of Dubai. If you are not taking your car to the track where it will see a substantial number of high to low speed braking events, you will never see or feel any difference with the DOT 4 fluid other than in your wallet.
No need to justify either modification if that is what you want to do with your money.
Can't help you with what you experienced either. But pretty sure the fluid and lines had nothing to do with it.
It really takes a lot to boil even DOT 3 fluid. I seriously doubt that was your issue.
'Mod' away. Have fun with it.
11-25-2009, 07:23 AM
#5
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 10,060
Received 3,792 Likes
on
1,141 Posts
"Ask Tadge" Producer
I agree with willhaveC6: what zeshawn experienced has nothing to do with the lines. He MAY have boiled the fluid. We don't know the color of the brake fluid, just that it had a little air in it. So, was it dirty? What condition was it?
jas
11-25-2009, 09:24 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Wow, this is so misleading and just plain wrong, it's almost funny. Good stainless steel lines will perform better than the factory rubber lines as they can't expand like the rubber lines can. And if longevity is a concern, getting SS lines that are covered with flexible plastic is perfectly doable.
I agree with willhaveC6: what zeshawn experienced has nothing to do with the lines. He MAY have boiled the fluid. We don't know the color of the brake fluid, just that it had a little air in it. So, was it dirty? What condition was it?
jas
I agree with willhaveC6: what zeshawn experienced has nothing to do with the lines. He MAY have boiled the fluid. We don't know the color of the brake fluid, just that it had a little air in it. So, was it dirty? What condition was it?
jas
im sure the difference wont be felt cruising around, but if I do plan on hard braking, its definitely going to show up.
11-25-2009, 02:43 PM
#7
SS lines are pretty, but no better than factory for performance and worse for longevity, as they can kink and fray after a while. Unlikely that you were boiling fluid with one hard stop. I've heard of ABS systems becoming confused if you brake hard on a bumpy surface, what was the condition of the pavement?
11-25-2009, 04:15 PM
#8
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Supporting the Corvette Community at Abel Chevrolet in Rio Vista, CA 707-374-6317 Ext.123
Posts: 14,498
Received 1,425 Likes
on
597 Posts
St. Jude Donor '08
Has anyone told you about the factory recommended "Brake Burnishing Procedure" for the ZR1 brakes? It is a must if you plan on beating on the brakes. 
11-29-2009, 10:57 PM
#9
Pro
SS Brake Lines and high performance brake fluid is not going to help that much with high speed braking on the zr1 until you burnish the brakes per the break in procedure. In fact, the longevity of your highly expensive rotors will be negatively impacted by not doing it, or so I was told.
Scott
Scott
11-30-2009, 08:40 AM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
SS Brake Lines and high performance brake fluid is not going to help that much with high speed braking on the zr1 until you burnish the brakes per the break in procedure. In fact, the longevity of your highly expensive rotors will be negatively impacted by not doing it, or so I was told.
Scott
Scott
, the brakes stayed hot for the next 30minutes I can see the heat coming out of the brakes when i got caught in a little traffic, otherwise I was cruising to get the temps down.I dont know if I need another set of 20ish, 60mph to zero braking and cool down.
12-01-2009, 08:40 AM
#11
Tech Contributor
Member Since: May 2008
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
Wow, this is so misleading and just plain wrong, it's almost funny. Good stainless steel lines will perform better than the factory rubber lines as they can't expand like the rubber lines can. And if longevity is a concern, getting SS lines that are covered with flexible plastic is perfectly doable.jas
I believe you are missed informed. Do a search on SAE J1401. FMVSS 106-74. The stock brake lines contain carbon steel wire braid; it is not just a rubber hose.
For those who claim great improvements after switching brake lines, I believe your improvements you felt are real. I also believe that doing a good and complete brake bleed will greatly improve pedal feel. Something everyone attempts to do after installing new brake lines and maybe attribute to the new hoses.
When choosing a different flexible brake line the real question you should be asking is what percent improvement in volumetric expansion over the stock brake hoses is there.
Just my humble opinion.
12-01-2009, 01:51 PM
#12
Safety Car
A brake fluid bleed did nothing to improve my pedal feel, I actually took it back to the dealer because I thought they screwed it up, but no it was the same as another new car, so this got me thinking. I installed ss lines next and the difference is night and day in pedal feel. It is much firmer and not mushy and you're able to control the brake modulation much better with the new lines. Get some dot4 fluid as dot3 will overheat and burn, you can even smell the burnt odor from the brake fluid. I track the car and felt much more comfortable with the ss lines and dot4 than the old hoses and dot3.
12-01-2009, 01:53 PM
#13
Tech Contributor
Member Since: May 2008
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
A brake fluid bleed did nothing to improve my pedal feel, I actually took it back to the dealer because I thought they screwed it up, but no it was the same as another new car, so this got me thinking. I installed ss lines next and the difference is night and day in pedal feel. It is much firmer and not mushy and you're able to control the brake modulation much better with the new lines. Get some dot4 fluid as dot3 will overheat and burn, you can even smell the burnt odor from the brake fluid. I track the car and felt much more comfortable with the ss lines and dot4 than the old hoses and dot3.
What brand, part number lines do you have. Is this on a ZR1?
12-01-2009, 01:59 PM
#14
Safety Car
no this is on a z06... i'm sure its the same brake master cylinder that gm uses for all cars. in any case I got the goodridge ss lines, they came with lines as well as all the hardware AND replacement brakets where the ss line connects to the hardline on the body. very complete kit with everything included. i believe dreamin had a diy ss line install but he included the step where he had to file down the original brakets, with this kit you just replace them saving yourself a lot of time, not to mention aggravation lol
12-01-2009, 02:07 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Don't buy into the hype. Even for vehicles that see semi-regular track
duty, SS lines don't make much of a difference. If you're feeling a difference
its due to fresh fluid, or placebo effect.
duty, SS lines don't make much of a difference. If you're feeling a difference
its due to fresh fluid, or placebo effect.
12-01-2009, 02:23 PM
#16
Safety Car
i disagree, i'm not going to say that there is necessarily a peformance increase in braking distance but i will absolutely say that the pedal feel is dramatically improved
12-01-2009, 02:35 PM
#17
Tech Contributor
Member Since: May 2008
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
no this is on a z06... i'm sure its the same brake master cylinder that gm uses for all cars. in any case I got the goodridge ss lines, they came with lines as well as all the hardware AND replacement brakets where the ss line connects to the hardline on the body. very complete kit with everything included. i believe dreamin had a diy ss line install but he included the step where he had to file down the original brakets, with this kit you just replace them saving yourself a lot of time, not to mention aggravation lol
EPDM/CIIR blend tube compound
Two braid PVA reinforcement
EPDM cover compound
Volumetric Expansion @ 1000 psi 0.06 cc/ ft
Temperature Range -50° C to 121°C ( -58°F to 250°F )
12-01-2009, 05:17 PM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
As I stated above, I’m sure you notice an improvement by changing your brake flex lines. What I question is why. If the original brake lines were old, and/or over stressed, this can cause a mushy feeling pedal. Changing the brake flex lines would net an improvement, and in some cases extreme improvement. My point, you most likely would have felt the same improvement installing new stock brake flex lines. If an aftermarket brake line manufacture provided the proper data then we could identify what percent true improvement we might end up with. Again, as stated earlier, all they need do is supply data like this:
EPDM/CIIR blend tube compound
Two braid PVA reinforcement
EPDM cover compound
Volumetric Expansion @ 1000 psi 0.06 cc/ ft
Temperature Range -50° C to 121°C ( -58°F to 250°F )
EPDM/CIIR blend tube compound
Two braid PVA reinforcement
EPDM cover compound
Volumetric Expansion @ 1000 psi 0.06 cc/ ft
Temperature Range -50° C to 121°C ( -58°F to 250°F )
Whether it was the brake fluid or the lines, but im sure its a mixture of both, it was definitely not a placebo effect, the car was braking hard being pushed time after time.
12-01-2009, 06:12 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
A close friend of mine who tracks his GT3 RS with the optional carbon ceramic brakes was VERY dissapointed with the braking on the first two outings, switched to ss lines and put in some racing brake fluid and hes going crazy over the car now.
Whether it was the brake fluid or the lines, but im sure its a mixture of both, it was definitely not a placebo effect, the car was braking hard being pushed time after time.
Whether it was the brake fluid or the lines, but im sure its a mixture of both, it was definitely not a placebo effect, the car was braking hard being pushed time after time.
Thats why companies like these are still in business:
http://www.gasfuelsaver.com/
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
http://www.tornadofuel-saver.com/
Last edited by jmc5; 12-01-2009 at 06:14 PM.
12-02-2009, 07:14 AM
#20
Safety Car
People are going to believe what they want to believe, despite the evidence to the contrary.
Thats why companies like these are still in business:
http://www.gasfuelsaver.com/
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
http://www.tornadofuel-saver.com/
Thats why companies like these are still in business:
http://www.gasfuelsaver.com/
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
http://www.tornadofuel-saver.com/
