Over the past couple of years I have purchased vehicles, that like the ZR-1 have a wait-list and a premium associated with them. After reading numerous posts on this forum about how many folks feel they have a "deal" with their dealer I think this is as good a time as any to review what constitutes a "deal".
This will disappoint some here, and I mean no harm or negativity. In fact I offer this information as a Public Service in a way. That is, if you find yourself wondering if you are safe, I suggest you consult an attorney in your state very soon or you may end up holding nothing more than your Johnson come time the car hits the showroom.
While the specifics of the Law may vary from state to state there are a few things that are generally true about "Contracts".
Most importantly, they are only enforceable if certain specific requirements are met. In other words, just because the GM and you sat down and agreed to a few things does NOT mean that a court will tell the dealer he must sell the car to You if the dealer decides to auction it off instead.
If you know and trust your dealer, read no further and sleep tight. For most though I think you will surely have a rude awakening in a few months.
For many, the "contract" they currently possess is in fact a deposit or written document saying that they have the right to a ZR-1, perhaps even defining a price as MSRP. Sadly, this is insufficient as far as the Law is concerned in many instances. This only constitutes an option to purchase a vehicle, not a Right. And that option means the dealer can change the terms at will.
In order for a contract to be enforceable it must state and specifically define;
1) the parties to the contract
2) The considerations both/all parties are offering (usually price and delivery terms)
3) The item at contract. And here is where many will run into trouble.
Unless your contract specifically defines the item you're SOL. To say "ZR-1 Corvette" for example is meaningless. It appears that there will be at least 1500, which one? So you need an identifier, such as a VIN or order # or some other unique describer like, "the first" or something like that. Further, it should be written on a "Sales Contract" form, not just a piece of paper.
Again I want to stress the Spirit of this advice. I can envision extraordinary amounts of GREED setting in to your otherwise mild-mannered Chevy Dealer by this summer. Consult an attorney conversant in your state's Laws for specifics. What I am telling You is true in most situations however.
Last edited by allegretto; 03-14-2008 at 10:54 PM.
Over the past couple of years I have purchased vehicles, that like the ZR-1 have a wait-list and a premium associated with them. After reading numerous posts on this forum about how many folks feel they have a "deal" with their dealer I think this is as good a time as any to review what constitutes a "deal".
This will disappoint some here, and I mean no harm or negativity. In fact I offer this information as a Public Service in a way. That is, if you find yourself wondering if you are safe, I suggest you consult an attorney in your state very soon or you may end up holding nothing more than your Johnson come time the car hits the showroom.
While the specifics of the Law may vary from state to state there are a few things that are generally true about "Contracts".
Most importantly, they are only enforceable if certain specific requirements are met. In other words, just because the GM and you sat down and agreed to a few things does NOT mean that a court will tell the dealer he must sell the car to You if the dealer decides to auction it off instead.
If you know and trust your dealer, read no further and sleep tight. For most though I think you will surely have a rude awakening in a few months.
For many, the "contract" they currently possess is in fact a deposit or written document saying that they have the right to a ZR-1, perhaps even defining a price as MSRP. Sadly, this is insufficient as far as the Law is concerned in many instances. This only constitutes an option to purchase a vehicle, not a Right. And that option means the dealer can change the terms at will.
In order for a contract to be enforceable it must state and specifically define;
1) the parties to the contract
2) The considerations both/all parties are offering (usually price and delivery terms)
3) The item at contract. And here is where many will run into trouble.
Unless your contract specifically defines the item you're SOL. To say "ZR-1 Corvette" for example is meaningless. It appears that there will be at least 1500, which one? So you need an identifier, such as a VIN or order # or some other unique describer like, "the first" or something like that. Further, it should be written on a "Sales Contract" form, not just a piece of paper.
Again I want to stress the Spirit of this advice. I can envision extraordinary amounts of GREED setting in to your otherwise mild-mannered Chevy Dealer by this summer. Consult an attorney conversant in your state's Laws for specifics. What I am telling You is true in most situations however.
Absolute Fact! There will be some very unhappy people.
I started a thread asking " who, with $100,000 are going to buy a car (ZR-1 or other) this year"? The count is up to 6 , most of whom not committed to buying a ZR-1 (including myself). Apparently very few people on this forum have the money or desire to commit to a ZR-1, which makes me wonder who is going to buy the car. Best
LOL..you are so right...I wonder how many dillusional people there out there who realy think they will get their ZR1 for MSRP...LOL...today is not their day....and every day in the next few years isnt looking good either....
I was quoted $4-5kover MSRP...so in inquired further privately and was given such a run around it was pathetic...was quoted publically here on the forum one thing then told later on in a private message they couldnt guarantee anything as they dont controll the process, dont know what their prospective allocation might be...clearly they have oversold their allocation for the year and possibly the 2nd year too if no one drops off the list with disgust ...funny thing when i was quoted this fantasy number by a forum dealer who is a large volume dealer they were congradulated for being an honest dealer...many posted that the dealer was a stand up guy and he always does the right thing...like he did with Z-06's...i didnt have the heart to publish his private response to his fantasy quote...it certaintly would have put a different prospective on his sales tactics wouldnt it...anyhow...good luck with a ZR1...for me, i simply will not be gouged and bent over and dry rodded by even the most upstanding, nicest, honest dealer here on the forum....
There are people saying in many threads in this forum that GM will have a hard time selling all the ZR1s at MSRP ... I say It sounds like it's already getting hard to find any dealer who doesn't have some kind of waiting list. If a dealer has 2 or 3 coming and they have 20 or 30 people on the list, I'm sure someone on the list will pay what the dealer wants for it as long as it's not totally ludicrous.
Always find it strange that people must discuss the financial matters of others. Who cares what people pay for a car? Just for full dislcosure, I do have a notarized document where I can pay a certain% above msrp for the ZR-1. Will I pay a premium? I do not know. I do know that if these things are as hard to get as they sound then I will probably pay a premium for the car, drive it then flip it.
Always find it strange that people must discuss the financial matters of others. Who cares what people pay for a car? Just for full dislcosure, I do have a notarized document where I can pay a certain% above msrp for the ZR-1. Will I pay a premium? I do not know. I do know that if these things are as hard to get as they sound then I will probably pay a premium for the car, drive it then flip it.
Well flipping it always sounds good, but then you have taxes and fees to recover, new buyers want to try to get you to eat it.
As far as Notarization of a document I hope you have met the elements I have listed above or it won't mean anything either. An invalid contract is an invalid contract. If it's non-enforceable it can be stamped by the King of England and it won't matter in court. A binding contract is a very specific document. For example, you don't have a VIN for sure, so there has to be some way to identify which car is under contract or it will be useless in court.
I don't make the Law, nor am I a lawyer, but I have been party to contract disputes, I so learn the "other" way. Anyone who believes they have a Contract should be contacting a lawyer for advice.
I have an agreement and deposit with my local Chev dealer for a ZR1 @MSRP if he gets an allocation. Can he get greedy and not sell it to me? Of course, but I don' think he's that kind of guy. Sometime in the future I may post that I indeed got screwed. If I don't end up getting a ZR1, my life will not end. I'll just order an '09 or '10 coupe. Although from a different dealer.
I have a feeling that anyone with an msrp deal is going to get hosed and that the other dealers are making the offer knowing they will never get an allocation. Figure a minimum of 24 Vettes sold a year to get an allocation.
Well flipping it always sounds good, but then you have taxes and fees to recover, new buyers want to try to get you to eat it.
As far as Notarization of a document I hope you have met the elements I have listed above or it won't mean anything either. An invalid contract is an invalid contract. If it's non-enforceable it can be stamped by the King of England and it won't matter in court. A binding contract is a very specific document. For example, you don't have a VIN for sure, so there has to be some way to identify which car is under contract or it will be useless in court.
I don't make the Law, nor am I a lawyer, but I have been party to contract disputes, I so learn the "other" way. Anyone who believes they have a Contract should be contacting a lawyer for advice.
Hey how's it going Allegretto?
I also have a signed Notorized agreement that states that I'm #2 on my dealers list for a SS, Blue Devil, ZR-1 because at the time the name was not official. It also is for an agreed $5k over MSRP. No Vin of course but I did have them put my color of choice in the contract after veiwing the show cars. I gave them a deposit and It is on a sales contract.
Do you think I'm OK? Or should I get more on paper? I don't think it would be a problem with them as I have already mentioned to them that as it gets closer to the release date on the ZR-1 I might want to expand on the contract.
BTW This is the dealer who sold me my 07 Z06 and 06 TBSS. They said they have never sold a car over MSRP and this would be a first for them. They have been great so far as a dealer with service, follow through etc.
I also have a signed Notorized agreement that states that I'm #2 on my dealers list for a SS, Blue Devil, ZR-1 because at the time the name was not official. It also is for an agreed $5k over MSRP. No Vin of course but I did have them put my color of choice in the contract after veiwing the show cars. I gave them a deposit and It is on a sales contract.
Do you think I'm OK? Or should I get more on paper? I don't think it would be a problem with them as I have already mentioned to them that as it gets closer to the release date on the ZR-1 I might want to expand on the contract.
BTW This is the dealer who sold me my 07 Z06 and 06 TBSS. They said they have never sold a car over MSRP and this would be a first for them. They have been great so far as a dealer with service, follow through etc.
You knew I was thinking of you didn't ya
Well if he meant what he said then I don't think there is anything to worry about. Further if the paper actually says "the second ZR-1" then you may have a winner either way.
The issue here is that in all likelihood very few of these "deposits", whether at MSRP or some other number will mean much if you have to go to court over it. They really represent options to buy at MSRP. But if the car is never offered at MSRP they are "out of the money" as the expression goes.
Like I said, I'm no lawyer and laws can vary to some extent from one state to the next. Get a local lawyer to look it over.
I have a feeling that anyone with an msrp deal is going to get hosed and that the other dealers are making the offer knowing they will never get an allocation. Figure a minimum of 24 Vettes sold a year to get an allocation.
Might want to check out Joecooool's thread titled "ZR1 lunacy", he seems to think that GM will make as many ZR1's as there are orders.
Well flipping it always sounds good, but then you have taxes and fees to recover, new buyers want to try to get you to eat it.
As far as Notarization of a document I hope you have met the elements I have listed above or it won't mean anything either. An invalid contract is an invalid contract. If it's non-enforceable it can be stamped by the King of England and it won't matter in court. A binding contract is a very specific document. For example, you don't have a VIN for sure, so there has to be some way to identify which car is under contract or it will be useless in court.
I don't make the Law, nor am I a lawyer, but I have been party to contract disputes, I so learn the "other" way. Anyone who believes they have a Contract should be contacting a lawyer for advice.
With regard to the "flipping it" comment, I agree that other costs are involved and should be considered. No one ever makes money on a car when purchased new. My point of view is that driving these types of cars is my hobby and I allocate my hobby budget accordingly. I would love to own a ZR-1 for 6 - 9 months and sell it for a small loss ($10k or less all in). I know friends that spend more each summer on their boats or golf trips.
Well if he meant what he said then I don't think there is anything to worry about. Further if the paper actually says "the second ZR-1" then you may have a winner either way.
The issue here is that in all likelihood very few of these "deposits", whether at MSRP or some other number will mean much if you have to go to court over it. They really represent options to buy at MSRP. But if the car is never offered at MSRP they are "out of the money" as the expression goes.
Like I said, I'm no lawyer and laws can vary to some extent from one state to the next. Get a local lawyer to look it over.
Either way, are you thinking what I'm thinking???
Thanks I'll have my lawyer check things out just to be sure.
Hope to meet you at the Katech Track Event in May.
Might want to check out Joecooool's thread titled "ZR1 lunacy", he seems to think that GM will make as many ZR1's as there are orders.
That could happen if GM is making good money off the car. GM really can not afford to leave money on the table, but how many of the orders are for real? I am willing to bet 3/4's of the people on here that have orders will either not pay the mark up, will not buy the car if they cannot flip it for a profit, their dealer will never see an allocation or even some are just dreamers even at msrp. Look at the last ZR1 production numbers. 2000, 3000, then they drop down to 500. The same will happen to the new ZR1. it will start strong and then fade until there are not enough made. What will really tell the tale is the recession. Bad time in many ways to release a $100k Corvette. (money, gas, enviroment)
Corvette Store
All You Guys with "MSRP" deals
Of course, but I don' think he's that kind of guy. Sometime in the future I may post that I indeed got screwed.
I'll just order an '09 or '10 coupe.
Although from a different dealer.
