There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
Let me say that again because its the one truth that seems to fly out the window when ever the price issue comes up.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
The first few out will be sold to the highest bidder. If you absolutely must have a car a few weeks before anyone else, you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. Its anyone's guess how stupid someone is willing to get with over MSRP pricing the first month or so.
After the first couple hundred are delivered, you will be able to get the car for MSRP plus maybe $5K for the next few months.
Then the assho*e dealers will start to see their stock of ZR1's rise and sometime about six months after the car is released, there will be a hundred of them or so on ebay all at $10K over MSRP and none selling. The next few months when the Chevy dealers start crapping their pants because they have a $100,000 car in inventory, you will be able to buy the car at MSRP.
Finally, the last two or three months you will be able to buy the car at invoice when Chevy announces they are bumping the horse power from 620 to 650 for the 2010 model year.
So you want a real bargain? Buy the 2009 model used when the "gotta have it first" guy realizes he no longer has the top Corvette and sells it to get the more powerful 2010 model.
And anyone that thinks a cash starved company won't build as many as they can sell is only fooling themselves. Does anyone think for a minute that the factory is going to tell a dealer, "I'm sorry, but we are not going to take your $100,000 because we promised to only make 2,000 of these cars." Which by the way, they never promised anything. The number is being put out there under the table to artificially inflate demand.
I've been around Corvettes a long time. The same pattern comes out every time a new hot model is released. Its going to happen here too folks...
And one final thought for those buying for collector value - Its NEVER EVER the first "bugs, recalls and defect" cars built that are worth the most, its the "we finally got our sh*t together" last ones. In the long run, the first cars are always worth the least. 2006 Z06, 2001 Z06, 1990 ZR1, etc, etc, etc...
One reason given for the 2000 production figure is the difficulty and time needed to make the composite roof. Of course, if your position is accurate, it could be a corporate lie.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
Let me say that again because its the one truth that seems to fly out the window when ever the price issue comes up.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
The first few out will be sold to the highest bidder. If you absolutely must have a car a few weeks before anyone else, you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. Its anyone's guess how stupid someone is willing to get with over MSRP pricing the first month or so.
After the first couple hundred are delivered, you will be able to get the car for MSRP plus maybe $5K for the next few months.
Then the assho*e dealers will start to see their stock of ZR1's rise and sometime about six months after the car is released, there will be a hundred of them or so on ebay all at $10K over MSRP and none selling. The next few months when the Chevy dealers start crapping their pants because they have a $100,000 car in inventory, you will be able to buy the car at MSRP.
Finally, the last two or three months you will be able to buy the car at invoice when Chevy announces they are bumping the horse power from 620 to 650 for the 2010 model year.
So you want a real bargain? Buy the 2009 model used when the "gotta have it first" guy realizes he no longer has the top Corvette and sells it to get the more powerful 2010 model.
And anyone that thinks a cash starved company won't build as many as they can sell is only fooling themselves. Does anyone think for a minute that the factory is going to tell a dealer, "I'm sorry, but we are not going to take your $100,000 because we promised to only make 2,000 of these cars." Which by the way, they never promised anything. The number is being put out there under the table to artificially inflate demand.
I've been around Corvettes a long time. The same pattern comes out every time a new hot model is released. Its going to happen here too folks...
And one final thought for those buying for collector value - Its NEVER EVER the first "bugs, recalls and defect" cars built that are worth the most, its the "we finally got our sh*t together" last ones. In the long run, the first cars are always worth the least. 2006 Z06, 2001 Z06, 1990 ZR1, etc, etc, etc...
I tend to agree the price will come down by the second year of production, keep in mind that the reason the Z sold so well from the start was the price $70K, when you get to a $125K+ car the field narrows alot of people can't or won't spend that much on a corvette.
And one final thought for those buying for collector value - Its NEVER EVER the first "bugs, recalls and defect" cars built that are worth the most, its the "we finally got our sh*t together" last ones. In the long run, the first cars are always worth the least. 2006 Z06, 2001 Z06, 1990 ZR1, etc, etc, etc...
What about the first year 1953? Or the 63 split window coupe? Or the 68 ZL1? 1984 serial #0001? How about 64 Mustangs? GTO's? Why do you think they'll bump hp in one year? They only did that once in 2002. Why would anyone consider the "last ones" more valuable than earlier models when the cars are 30 years old? By then they ALL need work and surely any recalls have been done. My guess is that the first
ZR1 that sold for $1m will be the one that's worth the most 30 years from now.
Having said that, cars are not investments, period. The chances of making any significant money on a car is about the same as winning the lotto.
People buying ZR1's are not idiots. They are the people who can afford them and don't give a rat's a$$ what it's worth 10 years from now. If you're concerned about that then yes, you'd be an idiot to buy one because you clearly can't afford it.
What about the first year 1953? Or the 63 split window coupe?
A 67 big block is worth more.
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Or the 68 ZL1?
They made two, not two thousand.
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1984 serial #0001?
What about # 0002 and onward?
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Why do you think they'll bump hp in one year? They only did that once in 2002.
They ALWAYS bump the hp. It may not be the first year, but it will be before the C7 comes out.
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Why would anyone consider the "last ones" more valuable than earlier models when the cars are 30 years old? By then they ALL need work and surely any recalls have been done.
Because the cars are more powerful and have more upgrades than the first year cars.
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My guess is that the first ZR1 that sold for $1m will be the one that's worth the most 30 years from now.
And you would almost certainly be wrong. It will be a model from the last year of C6 production, fully optioned out, with under 100 miles on it and there will probably be dozens of them in garages across the country.
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Having said that, cars are not investments, period. The chances of making any significant money on a car is about the same as winning the lotto.
People buying ZR1's are not idiots. They are the people who can afford them and don't give a rat's a$$ what it's worth 10 years from now. If you're concerned about that then yes, you'd be an idiot to buy one because you clearly can't afford it.
Anyone paying more than $5K over MSRP the first few months the car is out, or over MSRP the rest of the year may or may not be an idiot, but they are certainly foolish with their money.
I'll believe a production 2010 ZR1 when I see it. GM in the toilet, election year, fuel crisis, mortgage crisis sinking other industries......2000 might the total production all together....then game over
What about the first year 1953? Or the 63 split window coupe? Or the 68 ZL1? 1984 serial #0001? How about 64 Mustangs? GTO's? Why do you think they'll bump hp in one year? They only did that once in 2002. Why would anyone consider the "last ones" more valuable than earlier models when the cars are 30 years old? By then they ALL need work and surely any recalls have been done. My guess is that the first
ZR1 that sold for $1m will be the one that's worth the most 30 years from now.
Having said that, cars are not investments, period. The chances of making any significant money on a car is about the same as winning the lotto.
People buying ZR1's are not idiots. They are the people who can afford them and don't give a rat's a$$ what it's worth 10 years from now. If you're concerned about that then yes, you'd be an idiot to buy one because you clearly can't afford it.
What about them? I remember when you could buy 57 Corvettes for under a $1,000, 53's, at one time were not worth that much. My buddy, who bought a new 63 coupe, FI, 4=speed , silver with black interior, didn't get anything for in when he traded it for a new 66 XKE. All production cars lose value, some regain their value many years later, when, and if, they become collectibles. Very few people that bought a car new , still owned it when it was worth big money. It;s the 3rd, 4th or 5th owner down the line that makes any money when the car becomes a collectible. Even today, many cars that you see being sold for big dollars, have had that much, or more, spend on restoring them.
A friend of mine has a 59, 250Hp FI two top vette in a very rare color, that he bought new. It has never been restored, hasn't been driven since 1976. It is worth a fair amount of money, but to get $150,000 out of it, he would have to spend $100,000 in restoration to get it to a NCRS Top Flight. So, in reality, the car isn't going to bring him a huge profit, when you factor in what the original purchase price would be worth now, 49 years later, if it had been invested. Plus, when he purchased the car, it wasn't for an investment, as he, and no one else, knew what would happen to the car's value later on.
What about them? I remember when you could buy 57 Corvettes for under a $1,000, 53's, at one time were not worth that much. My buddy, who bought a new 63 coupe, FI, 4=speed , silver with black interior, didn't get anything for in when he traded it for a new 66 XKE. All production cars lose value, some regain their value many years later, when, and if, they become collectibles. Very few people that bought a car new , still owned it when it was worth big money. It;s the 3rd, 4th or 5th owner down the line that makes any money when the car becomes a collectible. Even today, many cars that you see being sold for big dollars, have had that much, or more, spend on restoring them.
A friend of mine has a 59, 250Hp FI two top vette in a very rare color, that he bought new. It has never been restored, hasn't been driven since 1976. It is worth a fair amount of money, but to get $150,000 out of it, he would have to spend $100,000 in restoration to get it to a NCRS Top Flight. So, in reality, the car isn't going to bring him a huge profit, when you factor in what the original purchase price would be worth now, 49 years later, if it had been invested. Plus, when he purchased the car, it wasn't for an investment, as he, and no one else, knew what would happen to the car's value later on.
You just confirmed everything I said.
All I was saying is that once a car is 30 years or more in age, nobody cares or remembers if it had a few more bugs that had been repaired under warranty 3 decades ago. The FIRST cars are just as likely to be popular as the last ones. Maybe a big block 67 is worth more than a 68 but a 68 is worth more than an 82. It's all a big gamble and anyone "investing" in cars is not "investing" in new ones. They are carefully choosing very expensive cars that are already collectables.
I bought a new 1970 Hemi Challenger. I sold it in 73 for $1500. All cars depreciate before they go up in value. And any appreciation on a car is far outweighed by storage, maintenance and insurance.
I won't be around in 30 years to say I told you so, but I still say that the first ZR1 will be worth more than the last one. That's because the cars that are mass produced will never be the big winners at Barret Jackson auctions. It doesn't matter if it's the first or the last. It's the short run rare ones that make the money and it's not worth it as an investment.
All I was saying is that once a car is 30 years or more in age, nobody cares or remembers if it had a few more bugs that had been repaired under warranty 3 decades ago. The FIRST cars are just as likely to be popular as the last ones. Maybe a big block 67 is worth more than a 68 but a 68 is worth more than an 82. It's all a big gamble and anyone "investing" in cars is not "investing" in new ones. They are carefully choosing very expensive cars that are already collectables.
I bought a new 1970 Hemi Challenger. I sold it in 73 for $1500. All cars depreciate before they go up in value. And any appreciation on a car is far outweighed by storage, maintenance and insurance.
I won't be around in 30 years to say I told you so, but I still say that the first ZR1 will be worth more than the last one. That's because the cars that are mass produced will never be the big winners at Barret Jackson auctions. It doesn't matter if it's the first or the last. It's the short run rare ones that make the money and it's not worth it as an investment.
Actually, those familiar with C3's are well aware of all the problems those 68's had.
Even if they only ever make 2000 ZR1's, that would be considered a mass produced car. It will never see crazy money.
I'll believe a production 2010 ZR1 when I see it. GM in the toilet, election year, fuel crisis, mortgage crisis sinking other industries......2000 might the total production all together....then game over
As long as there building C6's they will build the ZR1 its too expensive to certify the motor to only build it for one year.
Actually, those familiar with C3's are well aware of all the problems those 68's had.
Even if they only ever make 2000 ZR1's, that would be considered a mass produced car. It will never see crazy money.
You are correct but it wasn't limited to 68. I owned a 69 coupe. In less than a year and a half, it was literally falling apart. It was after that experience that I had no desire to own a Corvette again until 84. I bought a brand new fully loaded 84 and the only problem I ever had with it was the power windows which were repaired under warranty. A lot of people said those were problematic but I put 80,000 miles on it and tracked it. The only thing I changed was brakes pads. Go figure.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
Let me say that again because its the one truth that seems to fly out the window when ever the price issue comes up.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
The first few out will be sold to the highest bidder. If you absolutely must have a car a few weeks before anyone else, you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. Its anyone's guess how stupid someone is willing to get with over MSRP pricing the first month or so.
After the first couple hundred are delivered, you will be able to get the car for MSRP plus maybe $5K for the next few months.
Then the assho*e dealers will start to see their stock of ZR1's rise and sometime about six months after the car is released, there will be a hundred of them or so on ebay all at $10K over MSRP and none selling. The next few months when the Chevy dealers start crapping their pants because they have a $100,000 car in inventory, you will be able to buy the car at MSRP.
Finally, the last two or three months you will be able to buy the car at invoice when Chevy announces they are bumping the horse power from 620 to 650 for the 2010 model year.
So you want a real bargain? Buy the 2009 model used when the "gotta have it first" guy realizes he no longer has the top Corvette and sells it to get the more powerful 2010 model.
And anyone that thinks a cash starved company won't build as many as they can sell is only fooling themselves. Does anyone think for a minute that the factory is going to tell a dealer, "I'm sorry, but we are not going to take your $100,000 because we promised to only make 2,000 of these cars." Which by the way, they never promised anything. The number is being put out there under the table to artificially inflate demand.
I've been around Corvettes a long time. The same pattern comes out every time a new hot model is released. Its going to happen here too folks...
And one final thought for those buying for collector value - Its NEVER EVER the first "bugs, recalls and defect" cars built that are worth the most, its the "we finally got our sh*t together" last ones. In the long run, the first cars are always worth the least. 2006 Z06, 2001 Z06, 1990 ZR1, etc, etc, etc...
the only thing wrong with your statement is NOTHING!!!
As much as the internet has helped us buy a standard Vette at great prices, it also hurts us when the limited editions come along. Everyone thinks they can make a quick buck on Ebay, by getting an ealry allocation. It really hurts the true enthusiast. That's the one thing I respect about Ferrari. they only sell to Ferrari entusiasts. Speculators are kicked off the curb.
Corvette sales are down about 30% since last year. Z06's are sitting on lots at $8500 off MSRP. There just aren't enough people with deep pockets for the supply. Once we hit the $100K mark, there are just too many super car options and not enough true Corvette guys/girls for a $100K car. The buyers for $100K Vettes are extremely limited.
In addition to Corvette ZR1's from the 90's, numbered Grand Sports, limited edition Pace Cars and other specials, let's look at other brands.
2007 BMW M5. $15K premium at intro, now below invoice
2007 BMW M6 $20K Premium at intro, now at invoice and sitting
2007 Ford GT500 $25K premium, now at close to MSRP.
2008 Ford GT500KR, up to $30k over, will be at MSRP in 6 to 9 mos.
The list goes on and on.
Porsche GT's are sitting, Porsche 911's sales are off 40% since last year.
Mercedes CLS's. Red HOT to luke warm in less than a year.
Aston Martin's? Now at list.
About the only thing that stays stupid are the Ferrari's and Lambo's. Still haven't figured out how anybody is willing to spend $250K+ for a car and then $700 for an oil change, but maybe that explains why the prices on the two Italian Jobs, hold up.
Either way, the OP is right. Hype is exactly that. History repeats and car buyers never learn. Maybe it's the passion, maybe it's the competition to get something that most people can't. But one thing is certain with premium cars, if you really want one and you don't literally have money to burn just wait a while. Because sooner or later Economics 101 takes hold and price of supply matches demand.
I'm on a list for a late 09 (at best) or 2010 ZR1 and that's fine with me. If something better comes along, I have options. If not, I'll be able to pick up the ZR1 for a reasonable price vs the early speculators.
I paid a premium once for a red hot car and a year later it was worth $35K less on the market. Never again. This time age, experience and maybe just being a little bit smarter will allow me to wait out the hype.
__________________
NCM Lifetime Member
NCM Master Ambassador
Corvette Addiction Profile:
2009 ZR1 Cyber Grey, 3ZR, Dk Titanium, VIN 0091
1965 Roadster, Nassau Blue/Blue, Side Pipes, 4 spd.
2008 JSB Z06, 2lz, U3U - SOLD
2007 Indy Pace Car - SOLD
2006 Monty Red Coupe - SOLD
2004 Z06 - SOLD
2003 Vert - SOLD
2002 Coupe - SOLD
1973 Roadster - SOLD
1994 Coupe - SOLD
Anyone paying more than $5K over MSRP the first few months the car is out, or over MSRP the rest of the year may or may not be an idiot, but they are certainly foolish with their money.
I hoped those that sits on a few them just to make a quick $ don't make $1 over msrp. RECESSION....
Chev. just have the worse timing in releasing their super cars - ZR-1/ZR1. In or around RECESSIONS.
Maybe history will repeat itself? Fact: I'd seen a 91' ZR-1 at $15k below msrp back in those days. How many paid a premium the first year =? The ZR-1's sold during the 90's were less and less as each year passes.
The last year of production totalling only 448 and the last is still in the National Corvette Museum.
[quote=CDNZR;1564488313The last year of production totalling only 448 and the last is still in the National Corvette Museum.[/QUOTE]
Why do you think the last production ZR-1 is sitting in the NCM ?
It seems you are hinting the car couldn't be sold. I think it is at the NCM as a way of honoring a great car that set World records. Perhaps it is due to the fact that those cars brought technical expertise to a new level with the creation of the LT5.
BTW... It is the only Corvette built without a Chevrolet produced motor.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
Let me say that again because its the one truth that seems to fly out the window when ever the price issue comes up.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
The first few out will be sold to the highest bidder. If you absolutely must have a car a few weeks before anyone else, you are going to pay through the nose for that privilege. Its anyone's guess how stupid someone is willing to get with over MSRP pricing the first month or so.
After the first couple hundred are delivered, you will be able to get the car for MSRP plus maybe $5K for the next few months.
Then the assho*e dealers will start to see their stock of ZR1's rise and sometime about six months after the car is released, there will be a hundred of them or so on ebay all at $10K over MSRP and none selling. The next few months when the Chevy dealers start crapping their pants because they have a $100,000 car in inventory, you will be able to buy the car at MSRP.
Finally, the last two or three months you will be able to buy the car at invoice when Chevy announces they are bumping the horse power from 620 to 650 for the 2010 model year.
So you want a real bargain? Buy the 2009 model used when the "gotta have it first" guy realizes he no longer has the top Corvette and sells it to get the more powerful 2010 model.
And anyone that thinks a cash starved company won't build as many as they can sell is only fooling themselves. Does anyone think for a minute that the factory is going to tell a dealer, "I'm sorry, but we are not going to take your $100,000 because we promised to only make 2,000 of these cars." Which by the way, they never promised anything. The number is being put out there under the table to artificially inflate demand.
I've been around Corvettes a long time. The same pattern comes out every time a new hot model is released. Its going to happen here too folks...
And one final thought for those buying for collector value - Its NEVER EVER the first "bugs, recalls and defect" cars built that are worth the most, its the "we finally got our sh*t together" last ones. In the long run, the first cars are always worth the least. 2006 Z06, 2001 Z06, 1990 ZR1, etc, etc, etc...
wow. BRAVO clap...clap...clap. That was PERFECTLY put.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
Let me say that again because its the one truth that seems to fly out the window when ever the price issue comes up.
There is an exceptionally small market for a $100,000 Corvette.
There may be a small market ... but it's still large enough to absorb 1500 ZR1s. Remember that about 500 are slated for export, so that leaves 1500 for the US.
Seems many guys don't recall what happened the first 2 years the Z06 came out. I'll bet there were some who damn near paid $100K for the first year Z06 after dealer markups. Almost everyone payed $5K~10K over MSRP the first year.
If someone is willing to pay $75K for a regular Z06, then many of them will also be willing to pay $100K for the ZR1.
Now how much people are willing to pay over MSRP is a whole different subject ... that's anyone's guess, and only the market will be set by the supply vs. demand phenomenon. Time will tell.
But I'll bet that if every ZR1 was marked at $100K with no dealer markups, then every one of them will be sold ... most of them before they hit the dealer's floor.
Corvette Store
ZR1 Lunacy and the idiots buying into it.
? The ZR-1's sold during the 90's were less and less as each year passes. 
