Tom Steele

Ok,

I'm a know it all and I want to share my knowledge with you guys and even any GM folks looking in...

After arguing price till my fingers are numb, it dawned on me where GM screwed up.

GM messed up with the Z51.

The mistake was to make the Z51 a tick slower/less sticky than the C5 Z06.

If GM could have made the Z51 a ~$4,000 option, and added 25hp and even stiffer suspension, so that it was JUST A TICK better than the current Z06 in every measure of performance they would have had a product available that was priced to make the current Z06 owners happy.

The C6 coupes and verts would still have been a huge improvement over the C5 so those buyers would have been happy.

And it wouldn't matter so much that the Z06 might be really expensive.

Current Z06 owners would have a reasonably priced step up.
C5 Coupe/vert owners would have a reasonably priced step up.
And Ferrari/Viper/Ford GT owners would have a bargain priced step up.

Of course, all of that assumes that GM actually prices the Z06 too high.

If they price it in the high 50's/low 60's then they are golden in my book.

Cosmic Vette

Pricing is a complex issue, but I think your right. They should have had an overall strategy that would make everyone happy. If the new Vette is priced at about $62,000, they will achieve that anyway.

WhiteDiamond

Tom,

I mentioned this in another thread or two...GM needs to take this new aluminum/magnesium frame, give us the best shot they had on the 6.3/6.4L engine in development and stick it in a "competition" Z51 package. Even if this package requires a manual only tranny(probably a little too much torque for an auto), it would sell like hot cakes. The frame saves 132lbs and the 3-valve heads probably only add around 5 to 10lbs, if that. This would be a sweet package and could probably sticker only 2K to 4K more than the current Z51.

Actually, I must add, the new 6 speed autos will supposably handle in the 500ft/lbs area, so even the auto could be had in this package.

Todd

90pololt4

Your theory makes sense. Who at GM was doing the thinking and what did they want to achieve? This is the problem. Maybe someoone can enlighten us. I believe a lot of their outside input must come from the car magizines and bean counters, not us real world buyers.

Mighty-Mouse

Logical



Was thinking the same thing myself. Or at least a second Zxx with more power, more brakes and more grip to add onto the Z51.

R9G

The biggest screwup was abandoning the Corvette-only platform and rebadging a taller, narrower, longer wheelbase, engine moved forward Caddy XLR as a "Corvette" (I guess that the Allante dream dies hard for some). But I guess that we have to live with that one at this point.

Beyond that I agree that if GM knows now how to pull 200 to 300 pounds out of the C6 platform it should do it immediately to the Z51 car, then tweak the LS2 horsepower (or maybe just drop in the LS6 which is already said to be at 425 hp+ in '04 form), put on real tires (say off of the '04 Z06), keep the unsprung weight to a minimum, and sell us a sub-2,900 pound $50K track day screamer. The announced C6 Z06 would not keep up with this car.

rbartick

I am not sure why this would make the current Z06 owners happy. It would probably upset people who just bought 04 Z06 cars.

GeneCamaro

Maybe you want GM to just give away cars for free?

Crushinator

Damn, what brought that on??? We're all just hoping for a >$65,000K price tag.

SamsBud

That's what I was thinking.... Jeez, it's not like the current C6 Z51 is a POS, but that's the way some people seem to think. Pay the price, or take second best, which is still damn good.

Cosmic Vette

Your experience on this forum should convince you that even if they did give them away, a few people would get upset and complain about socialism, unearned rewards, rampant entitlements, or arrive at the conclusion that the cars must not be worth anything or they would not be giving them away.

These forums encourage devil's advocates, argument for its own sake, and enthusiastic debate of meaningless issues without corroborative fact-based support. Fun, ain't it?

Mover

No, the forums don't. And I feel no need to back that up with any facts.

LongTimer

Attention, GM marketing, Pricing division. Are you reading this thread? Clearly the concensus (and it is accurate) is that a separation of $20k+ between two performance levels of vettes is unacceptable. The Z51 is a great, over due package but falls waaay short of a pacifier for a $70k priced Z06. Better get back to the drawing board - quickly.

z06z06z06z06

tom,

i couldn't agree with you more, just maybe 440 to 450hp for the z51 package. i think that would be worth 5,000 more over the base vette. good post... timmyb

HellBent

Tom,

I think the last lines of your post is where the truth lies. All this talk of an expensive ZO6 is just opinion. GM clearly marketed the C6 coupe at previous coupe owners, and thus the content and price. The C6 was introduced at a lower base price than the C5, but with plenty of additional options. This should please everyone, or as close as a corporation can come to it.

Now look at the jump of the C6 coupe over the C5. Does the leap of the C6 ZO6 over the C5 ZO6 seem that different. Keep in mind that the C6 ZO6 was planned for this time, rather than an effort to rescue the failed FRC bodystyle. GM has already indicated the price will be slightly higher, and the production numbers slightly lower. It makes sense that GM will stick close to it's successful C5 pricing strategy, as they did with the C6 coupe. Why would they change an already successful formula? I say High 50K to low 60k, it only makes sense.

-AL

Tom Steele

Good marketing sir.

Actually third best, since anyone who can drive a stock C5 Z06 that pulls up to you in a Z-51 C6 will take you as well.

I understand though. It was one of the hard things for my to get used to when I bought my first Corvette. I had been driving Mustangs and hanging around on Mustang discussion boards (e-mail lists too, that's how long ago) and you could QUESTION things about the Mustang and folks would discuss it with you, and many of them would be irritated with the same things as you.

Coming here was a surprise. You can be tried for treason if you don't wave at everyone else who drives a Corvette (I DO, I PROMISE!) and it is tantamount to blasphemy not to take anything the general shoves down your throat and like - no, LOVE - it.

Its gotten better over the years though. Still some folks seem to defend no matter what. Personally, I think that is the reason my 2002 06 still got column lock! And rocking seats... Well, you get the idea.

In reference to the original response, I'd love for GM to give one away TO ME for free. But I believe if you re-read my post you'll see that I never suggested that. I posted a price that I felt would be reasonable and it was a lot more than free.

Tom Steele

Clockwork Orange,

You aren't one of the antagonists in an Ayn Rand book are you?

The issues are only meaningless when you offer nothing new to them...

Tom Steele

Guru_4_hire

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

vetterlatethannever

if the new Z is indeed over the 70k price point.