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Is it worth switching from a BTR stage 2 to Cordes Alpha cam
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Is it worth switching from a BTR stage 2 to Cordes Alpha cam
Hey guys,
Yet another cam question but I appreciate any insight given.
That being said. I currently have a 08 Z06 with a BTR stage 2 cam, supposedly ported heads and fixed head. The car came with a refreshed LS7 and fixed heads, unknown Catless long tube headers, Borla Atak exhaust. I’m currently putting down 515 Rwhp and 489 TQ on a Mainline Dyno. I want to get my heads redone for peace of mind so I know for sure they have been done right and maximize performance. I will be doing WCCH stage 2 heads regardless. I’m considering re-caming the car while I’m at it with a Cordes Alpha Cam. I will also be putting on Ported MSD, NW 103, Halltech MF 108 Killer bee intake, injectors and flex fuel set up. Is it worth to switch from The BTR stage 2 to the CPR Alpha?
car is mainly street driven very spiritedly and occasional canyon carving and Highway Rolls/Pulls.
I have attached a copy of my Dyno sheet. let’s hear your thoughts. I was originally considering the RPM B3 cam but would like to stay away from
the High 660 lift for valve train stability as well it being more of a top end cam which is the minority of the driving I do.
I've been considering this for years. I'm currently at 558/498 SAE dynojet on 91 octane with the BTR 2, ported WCCH heads milled 0.012", 2" AR headers w/ high flow cats, stock cat-back, Mamo ported MSD, NW 102, and Callaway CAI. Pat G spec'd a cam for me a couple years ago that I may pursue when it's time to swap to new springs when the PAC 1207s reach 20-25k miles. Cam specs: 238/248 .650+/.650+ 113 +3. It just depends if the money and loss of driveability are worth it for 20-30hp.
I've been considering this for years. I'm currently at 558/498 SAE dynojet on 91 octane with the BTR 2, ported WCCH heads milled 0.012", 2" AR headers w/ high flow cats, stock cat-back, Mamo ported MSD, NW 102, and Callaway CAI. Pat G spec'd a cam for me a couple years ago that I may pursue when it's time to swap to new springs when the PAC 1207s reach 20-25k miles. Cam specs: 238/248 .650+/.650+ 113 +3. It just depends if the money and loss of driveability are worth it for 20-30hp.
From all the Alpha reviews the car is extremely easy to drive so that’s why I’m considering the switch to just lil more cam that maintains the drivability
For your needs no way. With what you're planning the tq curve is gone way up the poweband. 1/2 straight mile then yes but that cam still is huge on duration. Call Brian Tooley an engineer..rather the forum. My .02.
From all the Alpha reviews the car is extremely easy to drive so that’s why I’m considering the switch to just lil more cam that maintains the drivability
With more than twice the overlap of the BTR 2 I'm not sure about "maintaining" the driveability. And like Red said, it's going to move the power curve up in the rpm range with the increased duration and wide"er" LSA of 115.
A cam with a lift of .644" is going to be hard on your valvetrain components .. Did you know that you can order any spec cam you want from Cam Motion. That way your not stuck with some off-the-shelf specs you may not really want for your application.
Keeping the lift to no more than around .610" or so will be easier on your valvetrain .. but hey, it's up to you.
The Alpha cam will make over 600whp with the right combo of parts and they hold the SBE 1/2mi record with a little over 170mph. From every review I've seen, it drives great. Yeah, you'll lose a little of the mid-range punch over the BTR 2, but I wouldn't call that a deal breaker. It's still going to accelerate hard in pretty much any condition.
I've been considering this for years. I'm currently at 558/498 SAE dynojet on 91 octane with the BTR 2, ported WCCH heads milled 0.012", 2" AR headers w/ high flow cats, stock cat-back, Mamo ported MSD, NW 102, and Callaway CAI. Pat G spec'd a cam for me a couple years ago that I may pursue when it's time to swap to new springs when the PAC 1207s reach 20-25k miles. Cam specs: 238/248 .650+/.650+ 113 +3. It just depends if the money and loss of driveability are worth it for 20-30hp.
I had a cam almost identical to that several years back and the driveability was not bad at all. With a good tune you will be fine. I only had mild surge at low speeds around 1700 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear.
Joe Cordes is great to work with. My C6Z had a Katech K501 cam which is closer to the BTR3 and had 17* of overlap. NicD does their tuning and I was quite pleased with the drivabiliity on my ~600rwhp LS7 build (my 1st street car with aftermarket cam). It did have some mild surging but I had the McLeod RXT 1000 clutch and billet STEEL flywheel and that combo was very good on the street. Joe has had quite a few Alpha cam customers and I have heard good things from them on their drivability and I know they run strong. The Alpha cam is not as big a step up from your BTR2 as the BTR3 cam would be
I don't know what else you have in your build, but even my bigger cam with ARH 2" headers had over 450#-ft of torque at under 2500 RPM, so it was strong down low and up high.
I agree with AzDave47, I currently have the btr3 cam in my ls7 and duration wise it's pretty close to the cam you're looking at. 17 degrees of overlap. There is surge below 1800 rpm putting around town. Keep it up over 2k and it's happy. I tuned it myself and it took quite awhile to get the driveability good but I would expect since it's their spec cam, driveability shouldn't be a problem. Just know that low rpm surge in lower gears is part of the deal with overlap in the teens and higher
I agree with AzDave47, I currently have the btr3 cam in my ls7 and duration wise it's pretty close to the cam you're looking at. 17 degrees of overlap. There is surge below 1800 rpm putting around town. Keep it up over 2k and it's happy. I tuned it myself and it took quite awhile to get the driveability good but I would expect since it's their spec cam, driveability shouldn't be a problem. Just know that low rpm surge in lower gears is part of the deal with overlap in the teens and higher
what other mods and how much did you put down with the BTR 3? I feel like I’ve haven’t seen too many Btr 3 cars hit 600 Rwhp and that’s what im really looking for. The alpha seems to hit 600 with full bolt ons abd E85 regularly
Joe did my builds on my 09Z. WCCH P&P heads shaved .030, K501 cam, PSI 1511 springs and Ti retainers, NW 102 TB, cold air intake, Mama ported MSD intake, ARH 2"headers,x-pipe, B&B extreme mufflers, McLeod RXT 1000 clutch and billet steel flywheel. SAE smoothing 5 dyno #s ranged 590-605 and torque 510-522 tuned for 91 octane grocery store gas. Cam card below for specs to compare to alpha (one of Joe's cams) and the BTR3
what other mods and how much did you put down with the BTR 3? I feel like I’ve haven’t seen too many Btr 3 cars hit 600 Rwhp and that’s what im really looking for. The alpha seems to hit 600 with full bolt ons abd E85 regularly
It's fbo, milled/ported heads, 2" headers, mamo ported msd, 102 tb etc. Haven't had it on a dyno but the measured airflow with hp tuners indicates it's around 600 whp. 60-130 is in the high 6s so it's making good power
I will also be putting on Ported MSD, NW 103, Halltech MF 108 Killer bee intake, injectors and flex fuel set up.
I wouldnt since you're going to be adding the above parts.
The BTR cam will drive better. Lets say you happen to gain 15 RWHP by switching cams. Well you are going to gain more than that with the above modification and lose not drivability.
That's a huge difference in cams. Personally, I think thats a big cam for mostly street driving. I think youd be giving up a lot of street manners by going with that cam, and you may only gain 15-20whp. I had a Comp grind that was originally an LS1 grind. I put it in my LS7. With the 1.8 rockers, specs were .638" lift I, .646" lift E. Duration was 238°I/242°E. All on a 114° LSA. I was pleasantly surprised that the engine made 617hp@6,300rpm, 565ft/lbs torque@5,000rpm. It also was a very good all around cam. It had 12° overlap. Hope this helps......
EDIT: Id like to point out one VERY important thing, that is, one guys version of streetable is another guys racing cam. My definition of streetable is driving 7,000-10,000 miles per year, with very little to know bucking. FWIW, I'm going back to a similar cam as the 617hp one. I'm looking at a .630"I/.640"E lift, 238°/245°-246° duration, on a 114°-115° LSA, probably a 238°/246° on a 115° LSA. My opinion, and good luck.
I wouldnt since you're going to be adding the above parts.
The BTR cam will drive better. Lets say you happen to gain 15 RWHP by switching cams. Well you are going to gain more than that with the above modification and lose not drivability.
Joe from Cordes responded to my Facebook post asking the same question and was able to show me a Dyno sheet comparing the BTR 2 vs Alpha and it picked up a significant amount throughout the curve. All mods were the same on both cars Here is a graph of a btr 2 vs alpha. Both same heads, same mill, same 2" arh, same airaid, msd (no port) 103 tb.
I’m willing to sacrifice some drivability but again everyone I have who has spoken to who has the cam says it’s very easy to drive.
To pick up 70 hp / 40tq from adding 10 degrees of duration on intake and exhaust and maybe a little lift is not going to happen. Something might have been wrong with car red line vs car blue line. I think the 15 hp increase someone mentioned would be an good start. TQ is a function of cubic inch and engine running good all things considered / equal and tq change from 10 degrees of duration is usually minimal.
04-07-2023, 12:52 PM
Is it worth switching from a BTR stage 2 to Cordes Alpha cam
