[Z06] Class Action Against GM !!??
10-23-2015, 09:31 AM
#202
Drifting
10-23-2015, 09:38 AM
#203
Melting Slicks
Dealers know these break off easily, and don't charge a labor rate based on man hours but rather charge a flat fee to screw their customers.
10-23-2015, 09:50 AM
#204
Le Mans Master
I'm not an automotive technical writer. I do not work in the automotive industry.
However, I am an operations/risk management consultant and a large part of that work is O&M manual review and development.
If anyone thinks that GM can print something and then say "Oh its a paper manual, we really didn't mean that" or "we didn't know better and now have a new method" and not be held accountable for it...that person is only fooling themselves.
I sat through several mediations in the last couple of weeks and what was written vs operational execution was an area that was highly focused on. Manuals and testing methods change for sure...but when it happens in the middle of a product failure event, eyebrows will be raised and it won't be good for GM.
They have mishandled this thing from the start.
However, I am an operations/risk management consultant and a large part of that work is O&M manual review and development.
If anyone thinks that GM can print something and then say "Oh its a paper manual, we really didn't mean that" or "we didn't know better and now have a new method" and not be held accountable for it...that person is only fooling themselves.
I sat through several mediations in the last couple of weeks and what was written vs operational execution was an area that was highly focused on. Manuals and testing methods change for sure...but when it happens in the middle of a product failure event, eyebrows will be raised and it won't be good for GM.
They have mishandled this thing from the start.
GM invalidating a diagnostic test that has been published in their service manuals for decades (my '86 Firebird manual has the "wiggle test", others have posted earlier manuals) when customers start to use it to show a defect and request a fix is unbelievably shady.
Unfortunately, the bankruptcy will likely protect them and we will still be on the hook for dealing with their mistakes. Hoping for the best, though!
10-23-2015, 10:12 AM
#205
Burning Brakes
The going rate for changing plugs on the 5.4 Triton is $800, plus $100 for each broken plug they have to remove. Could cost up to $1600.
Dealers know these break off easily, and don't charge a labor rate based on man hours but rather charge a flat fee to screw their customers.
Dealers know these break off easily, and don't charge a labor rate based on man hours but rather charge a flat fee to screw their customers.
10-23-2015, 10:34 AM
#206
Team Owner
was just a part of class action with my Ford F150- these were the results besides the lawyers receiving $5.2M. I have a feeling that if settled there will be stipulations similar to these.
Partial Reimbursement For Spark Plug Replacements Prior To 120,000 Miles
Every Class Member who spent more than $300 in parts and labor to replace eight spark plugs (or $37.50 per replaced spark plug) in a Vehicle with less than 120,000 miles will be eligible for reimbursement (in the form of a check) on a percentage of the amount you paid over $300. The amount of reimbursement will depend upon the cost incurred by the Class Member, and by the documentation that the Class Member provides.
Example 1: Class Member Pays More Than $300 and Less Than $500 to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid between $300 and $500 for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member 20% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $300 (or 20% of the amount in excess of $37.50 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member paid $400 to replace 8 plugs ($50 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $20.
Example 2: Class Member Pays At Least $500 and Less Than $1,000 to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid at least $500 and less than $1,000 for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member $5.00 per replaced plug plus 50% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $500 (or $5.00 per replaced plug plus 50% of the amount in excess of $62.50 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member pays $850 to replace eight plugs ($106.25 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $215.
Example 3: Class Member Pays $1,000 or More to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid $1,000 or more for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member $36.25 per replaced plug plus 75% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $1,000 (or $36.25 per replaced plug plus 75% of the amount in excess of $125 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member pays $2,000 to replace 8 plugs ($250 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $1,040.
Partial Reimbursement For Spark Plug Replacements Prior To 120,000 Miles
Every Class Member who spent more than $300 in parts and labor to replace eight spark plugs (or $37.50 per replaced spark plug) in a Vehicle with less than 120,000 miles will be eligible for reimbursement (in the form of a check) on a percentage of the amount you paid over $300. The amount of reimbursement will depend upon the cost incurred by the Class Member, and by the documentation that the Class Member provides.
Example 1: Class Member Pays More Than $300 and Less Than $500 to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid between $300 and $500 for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member 20% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $300 (or 20% of the amount in excess of $37.50 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member paid $400 to replace 8 plugs ($50 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $20.
Example 2: Class Member Pays At Least $500 and Less Than $1,000 to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid at least $500 and less than $1,000 for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member $5.00 per replaced plug plus 50% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $500 (or $5.00 per replaced plug plus 50% of the amount in excess of $62.50 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member pays $850 to replace eight plugs ($106.25 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $215.
Example 3: Class Member Pays $1,000 or More to Replace 8 Spark Plugs - If a Class Member paid $1,000 or more for eight replaced plugs, Ford will reimburse the Class Member $36.25 per replaced plug plus 75% of the actual amount paid that is in excess of $1,000 (or $36.25 per replaced plug plus 75% of the amount in excess of $125 per replaced plug). For example, if a Class Member pays $2,000 to replace 8 plugs ($250 per replaced plug), that Class Member (upon submission of a properly documented claim) would be entitled to $1,040.
10-23-2015, 10:47 AM
#207
Race Director
The going rate for changing plugs on the 5.4 Triton is $800, plus $100 for each broken plug they have to remove. Could cost up to $1600.
Dealers know these break off easily, and don't charge a labor rate based on man hours but rather charge a flat fee to screw their customers.
Dealers know these break off easily, and don't charge a labor rate based on man hours but rather charge a flat fee to screw their customers.
but that is cheaper than having the plug leave the head 600 miles from home and going back 6 weeks later with $3K to get the truck back (6.8L Triton V10). Oh, and the Ford mechanic that checked the truck out the week before said " it has a small exhaust leak, but that goes away once it warms up"! I found out what the "exhaust" leak was.
10-23-2015, 11:19 AM
#208
Team Owner
Thing is, ford realizes problems and fixes them. That is my experience. They don't have that issue anymore. GM sees a problem, and just sweeps it under the rug until they are forced to do something.
10-23-2015, 12:44 PM
#209
Burning Brakes
what the settlement with ford made me think was the result if settled with GM will be similar. something to the tune of having receipts and documentation of out of spec guides, and possibly certain miles or even years of cars. which would leave anyone who got theirs done for piece of mind or haven't done anything about it yet stuck. could possibly even go so far as to say that the wiggle test doesn't provide adequate proof of out of spec as well since they've changed that policy.
10-23-2015, 01:23 PM
#210
Race Director
With the f body its a lot easier if you have a lift you can do it from the bottom in less than a half hour and the plugs are less than 2 bucks each. I did not know that about the fords.
10-23-2015, 03:18 PM
#211
Team Owner
Thread Starter
As I have previously said, GM will settle before any trail. They will pay the lawyers a couple of million and then each C6 Z06 owner will be given a coupon worth $100 off the MSRP when used to purchase a new C7 Z06, that is in-stock at a Chevrolet dealer. Of course, like with most coupons, it can not be combined with any other discounts.
DH
10-23-2015, 03:20 PM
#212
Le Mans Master
The best outcome for this would be if GM would say they will honor any engine valve problems until a certain mileage and not make it time dependent. Since most of these cars are low mileage weekend cars it would help those that like their cars and are worried about future problems. It is sad that they are aware of these problems and have not done a thing until it becomes a legal issue. Hopefully enough publicity on this will compel them to do what is right.
10-23-2015, 04:47 PM
#213
Drifting
The best outcome for this would be if GM would say they will honor any engine valve problems until a certain mileage and not make it time dependent. Since most of these cars are low mileage weekend cars it would help those that like their cars and are worried about future problems. It is sad that they are aware of these problems and have not done a thing until it becomes a legal issue. Hopefully enough publicity on this will compel them to do what is right.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...it-against-gm/
http://www.torquenews.com/106/corvet...suit-clarified
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2015/...e-ls7-engines/
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/10/...eneral-motors/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...***-action-gm/
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/201...1801444953826/
http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2015/10/...gines-7729804/
https://www.corvetteforum.com/articl...tion-suit-z06/
http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/c...er-ls7-engine/
http://www.corvettereport.com/corvet...engine-defect/
http://www.stingrayforums.com/forum/...06-owners.html
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/w8lk39e/
http://froksite.com/2015/10/16/corve...engine-defect/
http://texasthunderradio.com/corvett...engine-defect/
http://www.businessnewsworld.com/new...ne-defect.html
http://www.newsunited.com/corvette-z...news/19185162/
http://www.cheersandgears.com/_/chev...ainst-gm-r3074
10-23-2015, 05:01 PM
#214
Drifting
Correct me if I'm wrong but the attorney's do not have the final word. The litigants must agree to the terms of the settlement. I for one will not sign off on it unless there is something significant for all the owners, not just the attorney's and willl push for a trial instead.
DH
DH
10-23-2015, 09:08 PM
#215
Team Owner
Thread Starter
If there is an offer to settle out of court or it goes to trial and a settlement is reached, from my understanding we will be consulted with according to reading the document. Ultimately "any" law firm has a goal to achieve the best possible settlement for it's clients - as it benefits the law firm equally.
DH
10-23-2015, 10:37 PM
#216
Not to hurt anyone’s feelings, but I have two examples of just exactly whom you are dealing with…..
The bankruptcy of Delphi followed by GM.
Delphi was spun off of GM in May of 1999. Delphi at that time made a number of parts for GM. There was a ‘ trigger ‘ in the spin off that if Delphi went under in less than seven years, GM would be involved as well. October of 2005 Delphi went under. GM was now in it, up to their necks.
Example number one: When the Delphi IPO took place and for years before the crash, anyone that bought Delphi stock had no idea that the stock they purchased was for the United States operations only. Delphi was then and still is a worldwide corporation. With the filing of the bankruptcy, wouldn’t you know that Delphi was only listing the USA operations and not the “profitable”, Delphi’s own words, off shore operations. Sorry everyone, but your stock value is zilch. This was the first time ever that an event like this was permitted to take place.
Example number two: One very large item was, what was going to happen to the Delphi pensions, both hourly and salary. Naturally the PBGC was involved. The PBGC was already underwater and didn’t need another self-inflicted train wreck on their books. So the PBGC decided that they would put liens on the Delphi off shore assets, thereby forcing Delphi to live up to their obligations. Ha, fat chance of that happening. In a matter of days, two or three, the PBGC released the liens, GM said they would top up the pensions affected, union only, screw the salary pensions and anyone hired after May of 1999, and the rest was on the taxpayer. In addition to this GM agreement to top up the union pensions was made prior to the GM bankruptcy, yet, of all the agreements made by GM to Delphi employees, again prior to the GM bankruptcy, the only one that is still in effect is the top up of the union pensions.
Just my $2.00 worth.
The bankruptcy of Delphi followed by GM.
Delphi was spun off of GM in May of 1999. Delphi at that time made a number of parts for GM. There was a ‘ trigger ‘ in the spin off that if Delphi went under in less than seven years, GM would be involved as well. October of 2005 Delphi went under. GM was now in it, up to their necks.
Example number one: When the Delphi IPO took place and for years before the crash, anyone that bought Delphi stock had no idea that the stock they purchased was for the United States operations only. Delphi was then and still is a worldwide corporation. With the filing of the bankruptcy, wouldn’t you know that Delphi was only listing the USA operations and not the “profitable”, Delphi’s own words, off shore operations. Sorry everyone, but your stock value is zilch. This was the first time ever that an event like this was permitted to take place.
Example number two: One very large item was, what was going to happen to the Delphi pensions, both hourly and salary. Naturally the PBGC was involved. The PBGC was already underwater and didn’t need another self-inflicted train wreck on their books. So the PBGC decided that they would put liens on the Delphi off shore assets, thereby forcing Delphi to live up to their obligations. Ha, fat chance of that happening. In a matter of days, two or three, the PBGC released the liens, GM said they would top up the pensions affected, union only, screw the salary pensions and anyone hired after May of 1999, and the rest was on the taxpayer. In addition to this GM agreement to top up the union pensions was made prior to the GM bankruptcy, yet, of all the agreements made by GM to Delphi employees, again prior to the GM bankruptcy, the only one that is still in effect is the top up of the union pensions.
Just my $2.00 worth.
10-24-2015, 09:42 AM
#217
As someone mentioned before, I cannot wait to see what evidence is produced from discovery... if the lawsuit ever gets to that point and the information is finally open to public records search. I think that information release will be the most interesting part of this process.
There seems to be so much debate and arguing on this site regarding the actual existence of the valve issue. And of course, I can understand GM doesn't want to officially comment because anything you say can later come back to bite you... However, had GM been a little more open about results of their own internal investigation, I feel it would have garnered a little more trust instead of their "machining error on some heads from 2009-2011" statement. I think GM failed to realize the Corvette customer is oftentimes very very different from the customer who purchases an Equinox (for example). Maybe I'm wrong though - the C7 Z06's seem to be selling like hotcakes.
Anyway, can't wait to see if any internal info becomes open to the public.
There seems to be so much debate and arguing on this site regarding the actual existence of the valve issue. And of course, I can understand GM doesn't want to officially comment because anything you say can later come back to bite you... However, had GM been a little more open about results of their own internal investigation, I feel it would have garnered a little more trust instead of their "machining error on some heads from 2009-2011" statement. I think GM failed to realize the Corvette customer is oftentimes very very different from the customer who purchases an Equinox (for example). Maybe I'm wrong though - the C7 Z06's seem to be selling like hotcakes.
Anyway, can't wait to see if any internal info becomes open to the public.
10-24-2015, 10:23 AM
#218
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '10
I wonder if the FOIA is applicable to GM emails during the tenure of the Fed's ownership? Would love to get a copy of any email that referenced combination of "LS7 or Z06" and "valve"
10-24-2015, 10:33 AM
#219
Team Owner
Seriously doubt it. Asked my wife who is a FOIA officer for the feds and she said very little chance of that.
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SurfnSun (10-24-2015)
10-24-2015, 10:41 AM
#220
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '10
. I'm not an attorney, but i play one on the Internet.
Either way, I believe they should have to produce any email that doesn't have attorney-client protection during discovery.