Dogged

I did the wiggle test this weekend- thanks to some forum members on other posts for their input. Guides in each head failed the test, both intake and exhaust. I still have a couple years on my GMPP extended warranty. I really do not want to wait until the engine destroys itself, so I will probably get it repaired. What's the best way to handle this with the dealer? As I see it, here are my choices:
1. Tell the dealer I did the wiggle test and show him the results and videos of the worst valves on each head. This way they could go straight to the worst ones without wasting time. Is there any potential issue they might deny anything since I took the valve springs off to do the test? I wouldn't think so, unless they could prove I did something to harm the engine, but I don't want to open my mouth if I am wrong.

2. Tell them I'm hearing increased valvetrain noise and offer to pay for the test if it fails. If they do this, I might get into a pissing match about whether there is a problem or not if the mechanic does not do it correctly or just wants to blow the problem off.

Those who have had your heads replaced under warranty, did they just replace the head casting and reuse the valves & springs or did you get a entire new head? I really don't want to reuse valves that may have being stressed by the bad guides (most were actually intake). I also think new springs are a good idea just because they usually are relatively cheap insurance.

Mark2009

Based on my unsuccessful experience, #2 is your best bet. They need a valid complaint, and will howl at the moon if you start talking about the internet (GM is already howling at the moon about the internet in their TSB on the issue). Just say noise. If they say they don't hear it, insist that you hear it. Act possessed if needed... dress in gypsy clothing... bring snakes/bats/smoking incense burners . Yell if you need the TSB number.

Some/many dealers simply will not do the wiggle test. In that case you're screwed. In my case they would only remove the heads, which I would not permit since there was no clear path forward -- like, as you said, new casting old parts, new head all new parts, etc. You'll need to formalize that path forward before letting them open the hood.

There are some members that have gone thru this process successfully, more or less, with a dealer in Houston; I'm sure they'll pipe in shortly. Offhand I know of none in the metroplex (DFW). Keep in mind that, IMHO, even with a new/rebuilt GM/otherwise set of heads you'll need to keep performing this test from time to time in the future

clogan

Others may disagree, but I would say screw the warranty, and all the associated aggravation, and just pay a reputable shop to R&R your heads. It will cost you about what a good set of tires costs, but you will wind up with a superior (IMO) set of SS valves and bronze guides, not the same old OEM stuff that so problematic in the first place. Many shops have one-day turn around, and you don't have to worry about zone/region approval, dealership technical ability (or lack thereof).

Of course, it probably will void the remainder of your warranty, if that's a concern to you.

Dogged

I'm not 100% certain that the SS valves and bronze guides are the ultimate solution. I think there are folks with worn bronze guides starting to show up out there too. It may just start the clock over and time will tell if the population of these repairs starts having similar failures. I'm sort of hoping GM fixed the machining problem by now and a new set of heads *might* last this time. And you are right, any problems with a set of modified heads throws the warranty out the door as related to head issues.

Z.06

I an only tell you what worked for me. My Z06 was at the end of the factory warranty and I took it in to the local service rep and said (1) my valves are noisy and (2) I have completed a valve guide clearance check in accordance with the GP procedure which found that at least two valve guides have excessive clearance. My dealer took the car in for service without any mention of a charge to determine whether the valve clearance was excessive. A few days later he called and told me that the valve guide clearance had been checked according to the procedure and it was within specifications. I described the procedure that I had followed and offered to come down to the dealer and demonstrate how it was done. Later the dealer called me up and agreed that the valve guides were already on the edge of the GM specifications for valve guide clearance. My motor had about 13000 miles on it at that time. GM covered the replacement of both heads, all 16 valves, all 16 valve springs, all gaskets etc to make it right. My new heads, valves, springs, etc are now guaranteed for 12 months and 12000 miles. I hope this helps you.

Bill Dearborn

Take it in and say you suspect there is an issue with the valve guides and you want to pay to have them check the guides using the procedure in the TSB. If you suspect certain valves tell them you were using a stethoscope to listen to the engine and you think those valves might be an issue. If they find something then GMPP has to approve any repair. If they don't cover it call them. The dealer enters data into the computer to see if certain repairs are covered. If the computer says no the dealer tells you no. So if you get that answer call GMPP and talk to them. Have done that several times to get coverage on repairs that were initially denied.

What ever happens don't be the typical A$$hole Corvette owner. Calling people and GM names will just make it less likely any body will pay any attention to you. As the old saying goes you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar.

Bill

Mark2009

As Bill noted and I will reiterate, you must use noise as a complaint. The dealer has a form to fill out, and the forms I have seen that have resulted in dealer work have always noted noise as a customer complaint (if you have a cool dealer, like Abel in central CA, then this is not as much an issue).

The way the system works you must provide a customer complaint that makes sense to the GM system. Internet/Corvette Forum is not a valid customer complaint. Customer measurements of internal engine components is not a valid customer complaint. X-ray vision is not a valid customer complaint. Yunick/Duntov/DeLorean is not a valid customer complaint.

Noise is a valid customer complaint.

Ya gotta work the system....

clogan

Very sensible answer, Mark. To get the answer you want, you first must ask the right question!

jazzmk1

Well I guess I'll chime in. I have a 2009 Z, I took the car in for some engine noise and it was determined that the camshaft had begun to come apart I got new camshaft and lifters. A few days later the valve train was making a lot of noise, they checked the heads and it is in the shop getting two new heads. This was all under warranty. Do not get in their face about it just tell them the truth.

rockinSeat

Where are you located? Someone here might be able to recommend a dealer that is wiggle test literate and happy to do warranty work. But yes, say it is noise.

nzk

Mark is spot on. I had my 09 checked under warranty. I went to two dealers with the complaint of excessive valve train noise. First one gave me the old "if it ain't broke don't fix it" routine. Yea buddy, it's not your $15k on the line! Second dealer took it in no problems and replaced both heads as several exhausts were out of spec. You may have to shop around but I would go with option 2.

RamAir972003

I pm you for help let me know...

JwT

All good answers. Be aware that if they do the wiggle test right or wrong and determine that for whatever reason they don't want to mess with your car, they may try and charge you with a service call for the work. You may need a copy of the TSB to avoid this issue.

rsalco

And if the dealer [dealer tech, GM tech rep., etc., etc.] says, 'we do not hear any noise'....? All the customer wiggle tests under the sun will not get a warranty work order opened. If however, you want to sign off on a work order for $800-$1000 of wiggle test work, most dealers would be willing. They're not in business to turn down work.

IFF valves guides are found to be at or past service spec. will the warranty come into consideration. You pays yer money & you takes yer chances....

Mark2009

Then you go back 2 days later and tell them the noise is getting louder. And 2 days after that. And 2 days after that. Eventually they will do what you ask or ban you from the property. In the latter case, you then start all over at another dealer.

If my previous post was not clear, let me reiterate: You should not discuss customer wiggle tests with the dealer.

That is incorrect -- there are several reports of dealers refusing to do wiggle tests at the customers expense. You should familiarize yourself with the TSB on the issue.

nzk

Lot of misinformation here, ignore the entire post above.

RichieRichZ06

GMPP requires a valid complaint for warranty work, just like GM. Our GMPP rep is familiar with the issue and the wiggle test. When we receive a car that has noise, oil consumption or another valid complaint, they will come out and inspect. They will look at the wiggle test measurements and if the guides are out of spec, I've never had a repair denied. Having a copy of the TSB may not be a bad idea, but it is not your "golden ticket" for getting a wiggle test done without some kind of complaint.

RICH

rsalco

That would be an inaccurate statement. The post relates to actual customer experience with 2 major Chevrolet dealer groups. And a former dealer, now major race shop owner.

Not that it matters to "defective valve guide" or "wiggle test" true believers. Facts are always lost on belief systems.

rsalco

Verifiable complaint.

perf0rmance

sub'd lol