ByByBMW

I'm not getting what you mean here. A N/A engine is an air pump. Why would the air volume be different on the street vs a dyno?

propain

Next time your on a dyno don't setup any fans and you will see my point.

ByByBMW

You are talking heat then. The engine will use the same volume of air. The fans are for cooling, not volume of air for the engine. Technicality I know but an important one.

propain

Yes sir.

I just meant the volume of air being thrown at the car to keep it cool. As I said in a previous reply heat is the enemy of SC's. On the dyno they tend to heat up quick due to not a lot of air being thrown at it like on the street.

ByByBMW

6Speeder

The nice thing about science is that it is right whether you believe it or not. Dynos are proven consistent tools (if you stick to the same well maintained dyno) to measure the horsepower to accelerate your car. Back when I had a 2000 Vette I had a heads/cam package done at sea level, dyno'd it at 425 SAE rwhp on a dynojet. Drove it to a dynojet in NM at 6,000 feet altitude and it dyno'd at 424 SAE rwhp. They are far from meaningless.

propain

They are a decent tool to show gains. Ive seen cars put down MASSIVE dyno numbers and fall completely flat in real world conditions. They are a helpful tool but not and end all.

The thing about science is you need to bring all the variables for it to be pure. If you dyno on different days thats different variables. Real airflow is completely different than dyno airflow. You cant call it pure science if you pick and choose which realities you want to include.

CrystalRedZ07

Love my CTS-V coupe! Back seats are almost useless for passengers as the roof slants down awfully close to the top of one's head, so it's good for luggage, etc. Coupe has blind spots by its nature but the '12's have the warning system, which helps.

Recaros look great and are very comfortable once they're adjusted just right. They're a $3400 option, so that's a personal decision. I stayed with the base seats which are very comfortable for trips, but they would be a huge disadvantage for cornering, tracking, etc. (no lateral support). Some with sunroofs have complained about rattles, I chose to order mine without one, saving a little weight in the process.

Good luck!

6Speeder

I included my results with two different dynos at different temps, different days, HUGELY different density altitudes, and because they were the same brand of dyno they gave the same results using SAE correction factors. SAE does a good job in eliminating those variables. Dyno air can be controlled as a variable too. Get enough air to keep IAT's consistent and start the run at consistent coolant/oil temps and that variable is controlled.

Edit: SAE correction factors work for N/A and supercharged engines, they overcorrect for turbo cars and nitrous.

Slow Vette

oh come on now lol, you yourself own a C6 Z06, and SHOULD know that 40 in 1st will roast the tires off!! come on guy wake up. the vid proves the Z started in 2nd since it hardly spun, but what do I know, I wasn't there like you right? I haven't owned the Z06 for 5 years right??
fact is, get a better driver in the Z06, and you'll see how much it pulls the ctsv, but then again you are racing in higher elevation.

one more thing, please stop trying to convince people that boosted cars suffer just as much as NA cars in higher elevation because everyone knows that's not the case.

Slow Vette

6speeder we don't dyno race here

Slow Vette

LS7 DREW, no point in arguing, this guy will always believe a 534rwhp ctsv is neck and neck with a stock z06. maybe the guy also believes a stock z06 is neck and neck with 540rwhp gt500 too

Property1

Have to agree with Slow Vette here. In addition, you can clearly see the Z06 shift from 1st to 2nd at about the 0:04 mark in the video.

And if we're going to nit pick that race, I have two more complaints:

(1) The CTS is already a car length ahead before the race even starts
(2) The CTS passenger just yells ready set go and takes off, giving the Z06 driver absolutely no time to respond, or even get a fair chance. Doesn't look like the driver was paying much attention.

All whining aside, I'm sure that CTS-V is quick. I just think a stock Z06 will still beat it, in a proper race.

palindrome1H

Thank you very much for your input tntls7 and crystalredz07! Very valuable information. My wife is leaning towards the cts-v so her daughter can come on road trips whereas I am leaning towards the z06 because I'm a guy and do not know what practicality means!

6Speeder

Sorry buddy, that's total BS. My Z06 (which I've owned for OVER 6 YEARS), with 572 SAE RWHP will launch at 30 mph without spinning the tires AT THIS ALTITUDE. I'm sure a stock one will not roast them at 40 HERE.

You sea level guys just have no idea how elevation affects cars. You may think you do, but you don't. I have owned and raced turbo cars, nitrous cars, multiple supercharged cars, and multiple N/A cars at altitude. Because of the fixed drive ratio of supercharged cars they lose the same percentage of power as N/A cars. That's the fact.

6Speeder

So are you agreeing with slow or disagreeing? He says the Z was in the wrong gear, second, you say first.

As for which is quicker HERE AT ALTITUDE, the best pass I've seen or heard of for a stock Z is 12.5, on street tires (I ran a 12.3 with a CAI and a tune, but that's not stock). My best pass on street tires in the CTS-V is a 12.3. It's gone 11.8 on DR's with a DA of 7,000+ feet. But again, all you flat-landers will say how slow that is, cause you don't race here.

As for your nits, I gave him every chance to pick up the HALF CAR I was ahead, he didn't. Also, the V's passenger did the yelling, both drivers were responding to it, not just the Z's driver. I prefer three honks, but the yell was what he wanted. It was as fair as we could make it, and really all in fun. I made AT LEAST 15 passes that day, with various cars, won some, lost some. The fact is, a STOCK C6 Z06 will not beat my Modded CTS-V here. My V only makes 534 SAE rwhp, but the Z is only making 445ish SAE. Weight difference allows him to keep up but not pull away.

Property1

I said that you can see the Z06 shift into 2nd gear before the race starts. Thus, he started the race at 30-40mph in 2nd gear, which is not a good spot.

I'm really not trying to criticize your car or anything. Not calling you a liar. The race was legit. I just agree with Slow that your race was probably an aberration. The majority of the time, a stock Z06 will beat a slightly modded V. Yours seemed a little different for the reasons listed - Z06 was in the wrong gear, V started the race in front, V got the jump.

I guess I could have just said "Wow, didn't expect that, thought the Z would win" and gotten the same point across. Not trying to fight with anyone.

04_Z06_CE

Fact is you raced a guy in second gear .
Your V is very quick but your smoking some good gange.

Slow Vette

ok guy, believe what you want to believe, while the rest of us here will live in the real world where a 534rwhp ctsv will lose to a stock z06 with an above average driver, you know, at "sea level"

Me, as a sea level guy say screw racing in high elevation , because sea level is where it counts. That is after all where all the 1/4 testing is done by magazines, and car companies. TOO bad if you don't like that, go cry me a river

In the end, i won't get in a p1ssing contest here with you, and we'll have to agree to disagree

6Speeder

As an engineer, I just don't understand how you can still disagree. I told you what happens, and why. I supported that with facts showing that supercharged vehicles lose percentage wise as much power as a N/A car, through dyno comparisons and through drag strip times. Hell, I even got the video to prove it.

I understand you wanting a Z06 to be a mythical, magical beast, that no 4 door Cadillac can outrun, but sadly it's no unicorn. It's just another car that can be beat with suitable horsepower. That's why mine now has 12:1 heads, a big cam, boltons, and if needed a 100 shot of nitrous.

As for the second gear/40 mph thing, look at the video closely. IF that was a big deal I would have pulled him hard at first, till he hit his power band, then the race would have leveled off. That didn't happen, the race was pretty much constant till I lifted at 135 mph. I will say that if I had been in the stock Z, I would have lobbied for either 30 mph in first gear,or 50 mph in second.

Now if you want to see someone who is really unhappy, this was on the same day running against a buddy's 2013 M5:

For some reason the vid cuts off for a second, then starts up again, it's all the same race.