[Z06] Engine Rebuild Update
07-01-2010, 10:28 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Engine Rebuild Update
So my mechanic tells me my engine is finally getting resleeved now w wet sleeves. They were backed up so it sat for a few weeks.
He should get it back next week then he can start rebuilding it
Hopefully she'll be running again late July or Aug
He should get it back next week then he can start rebuilding it
Hopefully she'll be running again late July or Aug
07-01-2010, 04:20 PM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
The wet sleeves are supposed to be much stronger than the stock sleeves which were cracked
GM wont sell sleeves, only block w sleeves
GM wont sell sleeves, only block w sleeves
07-01-2010, 07:34 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
From what I've seen of an LS-7 block, wet cast iron liner's seem like the only way, once the stock liner's crack. There's actually a company that specializes in doing this to go bigger on just about any LS series block. Really not sure if there's a bad side to the proceedure, but sound's like a good idea to me.
07-02-2010, 08:22 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
The problem with putting wet sleeves into a block that was designed for dry sleeves is most of the original aluminum from the cylinder barrels is machined out. This greatly weakens the block structure. The new dry sleeves are only supported at the top by the deck and at the bottom with a press fit. Some folks go through this expensive process in order to bore the block larger than orginally allowed.
Todays quality labor costs are so high that you should at least investigate the cost of a replacement block verses the sleeving process. If you are doing multiple cylinders it may be a better move to just replace the block. If several other components were also damaged, you should look into another complete short block.
Best of luck!
Todays quality labor costs are so high that you should at least investigate the cost of a replacement block verses the sleeving process. If you are doing multiple cylinders it may be a better move to just replace the block. If several other components were also damaged, you should look into another complete short block.
Best of luck!
07-02-2010, 09:42 AM
#6
I agree with Vito in that going with a wet sleeve you have to machine out all the cast iron sleeve and aluminum cylinder that was around the cast iron sleeve, making the block weaker. Our Superdeck 1 system really addresses these issues. We do machine out the cast iron and we do mill out about a 1/4 of the aluminum but we leave 3/4 of it for the strength factor. Our Superdeck 1 is for the most part a dry sleeve and ends up twice as strong as the factory block.
In some cases the sleeving can cost allot depending on what you have done and who does it. Our Superdeck 1 sleeving is only 2600.00 and that includes the sleeving, all machining, all the honing and it even includes doweled billet main caps. the best features about ours is the sleeve length, strength of the ductile iron and possibility of a much larger bore. Our sleeve length is a 5.800 and helps with the oil consumption issues and piston side load when running a larger stroke crank. Our ductile iron sleeves are over 130,000 tensile strength where the GM cast iron sleeves are only 30,000 tensile strength and lastly you can hone our blocks all the way out to a 4.200 bore in a N/A application if need be because of our sleeve strength and design.
Depending on your goals sometimes it might be better to just go get a new OEM block but 2600.00 isn't that bad for everything you get with it and once we're done with it, the OEM block can't compare to it.
Just some thoughts and benefits on our sleeving.
In some cases the sleeving can cost allot depending on what you have done and who does it. Our Superdeck 1 sleeving is only 2600.00 and that includes the sleeving, all machining, all the honing and it even includes doweled billet main caps. the best features about ours is the sleeve length, strength of the ductile iron and possibility of a much larger bore. Our sleeve length is a 5.800 and helps with the oil consumption issues and piston side load when running a larger stroke crank. Our ductile iron sleeves are over 130,000 tensile strength where the GM cast iron sleeves are only 30,000 tensile strength and lastly you can hone our blocks all the way out to a 4.200 bore in a N/A application if need be because of our sleeve strength and design.
Depending on your goals sometimes it might be better to just go get a new OEM block but 2600.00 isn't that bad for everything you get with it and once we're done with it, the OEM block can't compare to it.
Just some thoughts and benefits on our sleeving.
07-02-2010, 10:17 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
I agree with Vito in that going with a wet sleeve you have to machine out all the cast iron sleeve and aluminum cylinder that was around the cast iron sleeve, making the block weaker. Our Superdeck 1 system really addresses these issues. We do machine out the cast iron and we do mill out about a 1/4 of the aluminum but we leave 3/4 of it for the strength factor. Our Superdeck 1 is for the most part a dry sleeve and ends up twice as strong as the factory block.
In some cases the sleeving can cost allot depending on what you have done and who does it. Our Superdeck 1 sleeving is only 2600.00 and that includes the sleeving, all machining, all the honing and it even includes doweled billet main caps. the best features about ours is the sleeve length, strength of the ductile iron and possibility of a much larger bore. Our sleeve length is a 5.800 and helps with the oil consumption issues and piston side load when running a larger stroke crank. Our ductile iron sleeves are over 130,000 tensile strength where the GM cast iron sleeves are only 30,000 tensile strength and lastly you can hone our blocks all the way out to a 4.200 bore in a N/A application if need be because of our sleeve strength and design.
Depending on your goals sometimes it might be better to just go get a new OEM block but 2600.00 isn't that bad for everything you get with it and once we're done with it, the OEM block can't compare to it.
Just some thoughts and benefits on our sleeving.
In some cases the sleeving can cost allot depending on what you have done and who does it. Our Superdeck 1 sleeving is only 2600.00 and that includes the sleeving, all machining, all the honing and it even includes doweled billet main caps. the best features about ours is the sleeve length, strength of the ductile iron and possibility of a much larger bore. Our sleeve length is a 5.800 and helps with the oil consumption issues and piston side load when running a larger stroke crank. Our ductile iron sleeves are over 130,000 tensile strength where the GM cast iron sleeves are only 30,000 tensile strength and lastly you can hone our blocks all the way out to a 4.200 bore in a N/A application if need be because of our sleeve strength and design.
Depending on your goals sometimes it might be better to just go get a new OEM block but 2600.00 isn't that bad for everything you get with it and once we're done with it, the OEM block can't compare to it.
Just some thoughts and benefits on our sleeving.
I had them do everything except the final hone. Erik at HKE did the final machine work and had nothing but good things to say about the machine work from ERL.
There is no stronger standard deck aluminum block.
07-02-2010, 10:33 AM
#8
Melting Slicks
My experieneces with resleaving..
I purchased a new LS7 block and had Darton standard liners installed over the 07/08 winter. Car was a 4.185 bore 4.125 stroke 454 LS7.
7,500 miles later, my heater box sounded like an aquarium everytime I shut it off.
Long story short...1 liner dropped just .001" and allowed combustion gases to escape into the coolant system. No head gasket helped ( believe me I tried, many times until I figured it out
)
Here is the final explanation from Darton/installer in march of this year...
" I now know the reason why you had a failure with your block.....The two middle sleeves on that bank did not sink into the deck as I had originally thought happened.
I stopped using a deck plate to install the sleeves after seeing your block. I use machine clamps to seat sleeves on all my import blocks so I reverted to that approach on the American blocks I do as well including the LS, Dodge Hemi, Ford GT40, and Viper blocks. The clamps let me see the flange height of the installed sleeves relative to the adjacent sleeve or sleeves.
A bit more than a week ago I did a dry liner install in an LS2 block for a shop customer of mine. When I installed the sleeves I noticed that the end sleeves on one bank were sitting higher than the two center sleeves. I measure the diameters of the sleeve bodies before boring the block to size but every other aspect of the machine work is done automatically on the CNC. So I'm wondering what the hell is going on. I machined out the end liners and also one end liner on the other bank that was also high. I would have never noticed this had I used a honing plate to seat the sleeves. The end sleeves would have held up the honing plate and the center two would not have been seated all the way yet the sleeve tops would be flush.
In any event, I could see where the end sleeve flanges had shaved material on their way in. The end sleeves in question were in fact sitting on metal shavings and were not fully seated. The only way this could be is if the flange diameters were out of tolerance - too large. I had no proof because the sleeves were machined away.
To make a long story short, Darton checks a few sleeves from every batch of sleeves they receive for size. Darton only machines the sleeve flats and crank cuts out here. Apparently sleeves checked by a certain inspector "AJ" off shore where not in spec. Darton never encountered a problem during inspections here.
I purchased eight more sleeves earlier this past week for another job. I had Gary, the shop foreman check the sleeves. Darton thought I was full of ****. Three of the end sleeve flanges were too large! Gary couldn't believe it. They brought several more out with about half of them out of spec. They are pulling all the sleeves out of stock and checking them for size....."
To my installers credit, he covered the Darton Dry liners under warranty and replaced them using Darton M.I.D. liners at no cost to me ( other than shipping)
I didn't have time to wait for the new block to be finished, so I bought a new GM LS7 block from SDPC for $2xxx and it was a thing of beauty. My engine builder was blown away with machining and specs on the block and he works with LT5's LSX's and SB2 motors all the time.
7,500 miles later 8 hrs of hard road race track time and 570/538 at the wheels isn't too bad for a factory block with factory head gaskets.
7,500 miles later, my heater box sounded like an aquarium everytime I shut it off.
Long story short...1 liner dropped just .001" and allowed combustion gases to escape into the coolant system. No head gasket helped ( believe me I tried, many times until I figured it out
)Here is the final explanation from Darton/installer in march of this year...
" I now know the reason why you had a failure with your block.....The two middle sleeves on that bank did not sink into the deck as I had originally thought happened.
I stopped using a deck plate to install the sleeves after seeing your block. I use machine clamps to seat sleeves on all my import blocks so I reverted to that approach on the American blocks I do as well including the LS, Dodge Hemi, Ford GT40, and Viper blocks. The clamps let me see the flange height of the installed sleeves relative to the adjacent sleeve or sleeves.
A bit more than a week ago I did a dry liner install in an LS2 block for a shop customer of mine. When I installed the sleeves I noticed that the end sleeves on one bank were sitting higher than the two center sleeves. I measure the diameters of the sleeve bodies before boring the block to size but every other aspect of the machine work is done automatically on the CNC. So I'm wondering what the hell is going on. I machined out the end liners and also one end liner on the other bank that was also high. I would have never noticed this had I used a honing plate to seat the sleeves. The end sleeves would have held up the honing plate and the center two would not have been seated all the way yet the sleeve tops would be flush.
In any event, I could see where the end sleeve flanges had shaved material on their way in. The end sleeves in question were in fact sitting on metal shavings and were not fully seated. The only way this could be is if the flange diameters were out of tolerance - too large. I had no proof because the sleeves were machined away.
To make a long story short, Darton checks a few sleeves from every batch of sleeves they receive for size. Darton only machines the sleeve flats and crank cuts out here. Apparently sleeves checked by a certain inspector "AJ" off shore where not in spec. Darton never encountered a problem during inspections here.
I purchased eight more sleeves earlier this past week for another job. I had Gary, the shop foreman check the sleeves. Darton thought I was full of ****. Three of the end sleeve flanges were too large! Gary couldn't believe it. They brought several more out with about half of them out of spec. They are pulling all the sleeves out of stock and checking them for size....."
To my installers credit, he covered the Darton Dry liners under warranty and replaced them using Darton M.I.D. liners at no cost to me ( other than shipping)
I didn't have time to wait for the new block to be finished, so I bought a new GM LS7 block from SDPC for $2xxx and it was a thing of beauty. My engine builder was blown away with machining and specs on the block and he works with LT5's LSX's and SB2 motors all the time.
7,500 miles later 8 hrs of hard road race track time and 570/538 at the wheels isn't too bad for a factory block with factory head gaskets.
07-04-2010, 07:23 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I've had good luck so far with the RHS block from Comp Cams. I believe it is acually made by Cosworth and it weighs about 12 pounds more than the stock LS7 with all that reinforcement material in the right places.
07-05-2010, 12:23 AM
#11
