thebrander

What's the best recovery strategy for getting the car straightened back in-line after kicking the rear-end out too far (WITHOUT stability control enabled of course)? What anyone who tries will find is that just lifting off the throttle will cause the rear traction to come back so fast that the rear-end kicks back in the opposite direction way too fast and the fish-tail begins. I guess a slow decrease in throttle is the way to go? What about braking (although I'm not sure how you brake if you're busy slowly letting off the throttle)?

2SINISTER

Turn into the direction the rear end is sliding, and you can slowly ease off the throttle if you need to; or you can keep a little power into it until you get the rear end to fall into line. As you said, just lifting off completely will get you spinning in the other direction.

shifter77

1stZ

As mentioned already, turn steering into same direction as the rear is kicking out. The amount of input/output (accel/decel) on the gas coincide with how you unwind your steering position back to straight forward and also depends if you're simply just trying to recover or if you're also choosing to both get it straight and also continue to power out. Hope that make sense!

Fast06Z06

This is the best advice. Stay on the throttle just modulate as needed DO NOT BACK OFF COMPLETLY. Sometimes things happen faster than you can react though. Always ride with traction off but not active handling off.

VetteVinnie

Yep, I just instinctively counter steer while easing up on the throttle. I guess a bunch of hard launches on the street and the track with now four high powered cars have trained my reflexes.

And brake stance burnouts are good practice.

thebrander

It seems that we have a consensus. Easing off makes sense as this is what stability control seems to do addition to some single wheel braking. I'd like to get to the skill level of being able to drive the limit through road courses which implies I'll eventually need to turn off stability control (to reduce the extra automatic braking). I'll be practicing on wide open pavement for a while (not to mention on XBOX 360's Forza 2!!!).

vettl83

If ya gotta brake, brake with your left foot.

thebrander

Ah-ha! Makes sense. Now... IS there a braking throttle combination that works???

ZF Six

Put the right pedal to the wood and steer out of it.

Just kidding, from my experience I'd say just feather the throttle and keep countersteering but don't make any sudden jerky movements. Keep it fluid. I also would say don't let off or hit the brakes. Drive out of it!

ZF Six

Personally I would avoid hitting the brakes, but I am no pro.

66L72

Lifting off the throttle does not cause the rear traction to come back. Exactly the opposite. When you lift there is weight transfer to the front and the rear will slide out faster. In some situations more power is gently added and counter steer will get the car straight.

gonzalezfj

DING, DING!!! We have a winner!!!

When reading the original post, I thought he meant recovery at a drag strip. Entirely different than a road course because the reason the slide starts in a drag strip is usually rear tires overloaded by too much torque applied.

On the track things are very different. If your car's rear is sliding and you lift, get off the throttle altogether or, heaven forbid, brake, you will be going around almost certainly. You need to put more weight on the rear wheels so they will get more lateral traction and bite. So, apply throttle judiciously while you steer in the direction of the slide. The idea is to point the front wheels where you want the car to go.

The key to slide control is to react quickly once the car starts to slide. Most beginners start their correction way too late, when the car is close to impossible to bring back. You need a good calibrated butt to tell you when the car starts to slide, then take corrective action immediately.

Good luck!!!

Frank Gonzalez

Short-Throw

...and I've been with Frank on a wet track where he performed such a maneuver that certainly helped avoid impending doom!



The first correction required is with your hands and as Frank has stated, it has to be done instinctively and quickly prior to throttle modulation.

Frank mentions your butt-o-meter and how true this is. In the Track Attack class I instructed, I addressed this in the following manner:

You can talk to the car in three ways:

1) Steering
2) Acceleration
3) Brakes

The car talks to you in four ways:

1) Feet (i.e. ABS/or not)
2) Steering (is the car going where you want it to?)
3) Lateral G's (felt in your back)
4) Lateral G's (felt with your butt)


The moral of the story?

We talk to the car 3 ways but the car talks to us 4 ways, therefore the car has the last word, SO LISTEN!



Mike

Dirty Howie

I notice a lot of good drivers are always moving the steering wheel (little back and forth nudges) when going thru turns. Is this trying to feel where the car wants to break loose and being ready ...........


DH

VetteVinnie

Heh. I was thinking drag strip, too. And street. My rear end usually kicks out on hard acceleration off the line, and usually in a straight line. I like that nice little tail wag sometimes. It's fun.

But, yeah, in a turn on a roadcourse, that would be entirely different. Unloading the rear would have the opposite effect.

Love this place.

Short-Throw

DH,

...or correcting so quickly you don't feel it.

They are testing the limits of the tires adhesion and when it slips ever so little, they nudge the wheel back to stay on the edge. They can also apply throttle in lieu of steering input to keep the car tracking where they want like in sweeping turns like the carousel at Road America.

gonzalezfj

No. Typically a good driver takes the car to the limit of adhesion gently and holds it there. When you see an experienced driver move the wheel quickly, he is usually correcting an impending slide, often before the passenger feels the car sliding.

Moving the wheel continuously (or changing any other input to the car, like throttle position) is counterproductive. The car needs to settle down after every change in driver input. If you are always changing your input for no reason, all you do is upset the chassis, which will get you less performance than if you get to a steady state at maximum cornering.

Many cars, including our Corvettes, achive maximum cornering with some sliding of the tires against the pavement. This is because the tires provide maximum traction with modest slip. Anything above 3 or 4d egrees or so of slip angle is excessive and begins to cost you speed. If you look at a well-driven Corvette head on at corner exit at speed, you can see the sliding.

Frank Gonzalez

thebrander

Yes, I've been talking about road course cornering. Thanks for the responses.

Can anyone point to some online video of driving techniques?

Short-Throw

I hate to be a party pooper, but watching video will not help you. Even if you had separate cameras on feet, hands and outward windshield, you still need to 'feel' it. The best thing to increase your skill is to drive with a good instructor and get as much seat time as possible.

Hint: Going out in the rain will expedite your learning curve!