[ZR1] Stock tire ZR1 Hits the Dragstrip!!!!!
10-22-2008, 06:16 PM
#121
Safety Car
I would have to agree. I had a 520hp twin turbo C5 with an automatic, and it was totally useless with stock tires. I could not have beaten a KIA from a dead stop. I too, think there is a power level that becomes too much for optimum acceleration on the street with street tires. The Z06 is a great combination of just the right amount of power and handling.
The power complaint has already been tossed. The ZR-1 has already been running faster 0-60's so better launching capability is there already.
This isnt throw some mods on a C5, this is ENGINEERING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-22-2008, 06:31 PM
#122
The Z06 is on crap runflats which no one thought would be able to hold the power of the Z06 and guess what, its good enough for people to get amazing 60's out of.
So guess what, the ZR-1 with a much better tire will be able to get a lot out of it's tires too. And certainly if motor trend can record an 11.2 then 10's are right around the corner. It has better suspension, and more contact patch to go along with it. And the extra weight actually helps off the line traction.
The ZR-1 will have several logged times under 11 seconds by more than one driver. That you can count on.
People poo the 10 second run for the reason I stated. ONLY ONE person has been able to do it in 3 almost 4 years, and we have some essentially pro drivers here that run at the strip like they take baths.
It took nearly 2 1/2 years for the Z06 to get to the tens. The ZR-1 just hit the streets and you're all over it like someone has actually had a chance to drive the darned thing.
This arguement is getting retarded, you might as well have argued that the ZR-1 hadnt run a 10 second pass when they couldnt figure out what to call it and hadnt started production yet.
You are obviously setting yourself up for failure because everyone here knows that as soon as the car gets in the right hands in the right place, 10's are inevitable.
So guess what, the ZR-1 with a much better tire will be able to get a lot out of it's tires too. And certainly if motor trend can record an 11.2 then 10's are right around the corner. It has better suspension, and more contact patch to go along with it. And the extra weight actually helps off the line traction.
The ZR-1 will have several logged times under 11 seconds by more than one driver. That you can count on.
People poo the 10 second run for the reason I stated. ONLY ONE person has been able to do it in 3 almost 4 years, and we have some essentially pro drivers here that run at the strip like they take baths.
It took nearly 2 1/2 years for the Z06 to get to the tens. The ZR-1 just hit the streets and you're all over it like someone has actually had a chance to drive the darned thing.
This arguement is getting retarded, you might as well have argued that the ZR-1 hadnt run a 10 second pass when they couldnt figure out what to call it and hadnt started production yet.
You are obviously setting yourself up for failure because everyone here knows that as soon as the car gets in the right hands in the right place, 10's are inevitable.
You talk about me setting myself up for failure, well according to the standard which you are setting forth, we will have to see not one, but two or more ZR1s make it into the tens.
Of course no one knows for sure, but that could take some time. How much is anyone's guess. The spec for it is 11.3. Someone is going to have to beat that by a little over 3 tenths.
Indeed, we are still waiting for a private owner to run that 11.3 spec. showroom stock. That could happen any day, or it may not happen until early next year, who knows?
With the limited number of cars in private hands at this point, the limited number of cars which will be made, and a limited number of people willing to put them on quarter mile tracks, and the somewhat oddity of drivers who are willing to work and work to get the best stock time before modding, who knows how long it will take?
There are only going to be a handful of people talented enough, and willing and able to make the effort of flogging a 10 second time out of a completely stock and very expensive car. This isn't going to as easy as some of you in here seem to think.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 10-22-2008 at 06:45 PM.
10-22-2008, 07:08 PM
#124
Melting Slicks
I used to use an elevator weight.
Reduced the wheel spin, but dropped the speed too much because of all the extra weight.
A bag of cement would have probably been just about enough.
But...............................
Would that be considered showroom stock?
What if I just hid someone behind the seats witht the shade pulled?
That would be showroom right?
Life has sure become complex!
Marty
1FUNZR1
10-22-2008, 09:09 PM
#126
Safety Car
But do you agree that at this point in time that we are still waiting for one to run tens, while a Z06 has already done it?
Yes I do, but do you agree that the ZR-1 not only has more accleration ability but obviously better ability to put power to the ground based on the preliminary 0-60 figures which are already faster than the Z06??
You talk about me setting myself up for failure, well according to the standard which you are setting forth, we will have to see not one, but two or more ZR1s make it into the tens.
Absolutely, I will not argue that. I beleive the ZR-1 is legit, all signs point to it, but it still has to be done by more than one IMO unless:
- Many of them never make it to the strip or in good enough conditions similar what the Z06 ran it in. Like you said this is a 100-200k car and limited in production so there wont be many at the strip.
Of course no one knows for sure, but that could take some time. How much is anyone's guess. The spec for it is 11.3. Someone is going to have to beat that by a little over 3 tenths.
The spec for the Z06 is 11.7 and that has been beaten by .8, why does .3 sound very hard?
Indeed, we are still waiting for a private owner to run that 11.3 spec. showroom stock. That could happen any day, or it may not happen until early next year, who knows?
True, will likely take even longer thatn the Z to realize the full potential based on the limited availability.
With the limited number of cars in private hands at this point, the limited number of cars which will be made, and a limited number of people willing to put them on quarter mile tracks, and the somewhat oddity of drivers who are willing to work and work to get the best stock time before modding, who knows how long it will take?
agreed, but at least give it some time before criticizing it as if it's had time at all, when people take it, and it doesnt live up to the hype, then you can bash freely
There are only going to be a handful of people talented enough, and willing and able to make the effort of flogging a 10 second time out of a completely stock and very expensive car. This isn't going to as easy as some of you in here seem to think.
Yes I do, but do you agree that the ZR-1 not only has more accleration ability but obviously better ability to put power to the ground based on the preliminary 0-60 figures which are already faster than the Z06??
You talk about me setting myself up for failure, well according to the standard which you are setting forth, we will have to see not one, but two or more ZR1s make it into the tens.
Absolutely, I will not argue that. I beleive the ZR-1 is legit, all signs point to it, but it still has to be done by more than one IMO unless:
- Many of them never make it to the strip or in good enough conditions similar what the Z06 ran it in. Like you said this is a 100-200k car and limited in production so there wont be many at the strip.
Of course no one knows for sure, but that could take some time. How much is anyone's guess. The spec for it is 11.3. Someone is going to have to beat that by a little over 3 tenths.
The spec for the Z06 is 11.7 and that has been beaten by .8, why does .3 sound very hard?
Indeed, we are still waiting for a private owner to run that 11.3 spec. showroom stock. That could happen any day, or it may not happen until early next year, who knows?
True, will likely take even longer thatn the Z to realize the full potential based on the limited availability.
With the limited number of cars in private hands at this point, the limited number of cars which will be made, and a limited number of people willing to put them on quarter mile tracks, and the somewhat oddity of drivers who are willing to work and work to get the best stock time before modding, who knows how long it will take?
agreed, but at least give it some time before criticizing it as if it's had time at all, when people take it, and it doesnt live up to the hype, then you can bash freely
There are only going to be a handful of people talented enough, and willing and able to make the effort of flogging a 10 second time out of a completely stock and very expensive car. This isn't going to as easy as some of you in here seem to think.
10-22-2008, 09:56 PM
#128
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
10-22-2008, 11:24 PM
#130
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06 View Post
But do you agree that at this point in time that we are still waiting for one to run tens, while a Z06 has already done it?
Yes I do, but do you agree that the ZR-1 not only has more accleration ability but obviously better ability to put power to the ground based on the preliminary 0-60 figures which are already faster than the Z06??
But do you agree that at this point in time that we are still waiting for one to run tens, while a Z06 has already done it?
Yes I do, but do you agree that the ZR-1 not only has more accleration ability but obviously better ability to put power to the ground based on the preliminary 0-60 figures which are already faster than the Z06??
The ZR1 certainly should have more acceleration ability. But when you say "better ability to put power to the ground", well it has an awful lot of power to put to the ground.
I'd like to see more bone stock runs.
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06: You talk about me setting myself up for failure, well according to the standard which you are setting forth, we will have to see not one, but two or more ZR1s make it into the tens.
Absolutely, I will not argue that. I beleive the ZR-1 is legit, all signs point to it, but it still has to be done by more than one IMO unless:
- Many of them never make it to the strip or in good enough conditions similar what the Z06 ran it in. Like you said this is a 100-200k car and limited in production so there wont be many at the strip.
Absolutely, I will not argue that. I beleive the ZR-1 is legit, all signs point to it, but it still has to be done by more than one IMO unless:
- Many of them never make it to the strip or in good enough conditions similar what the Z06 ran it in. Like you said this is a 100-200k car and limited in production so there wont be many at the strip.
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06: Of course no one knows for sure, but that could take some time. How much is anyone's guess. The spec for it is 11.3. Someone is going to have to beat that by a little over 3 tenths.
The spec for the Z06 is 11.7 and that has been beaten by .8, why does .3 sound very hard?
The spec for the Z06 is 11.7 and that has been beaten by .8, why does .3 sound very hard?
If the car had not had the 50 extra horses, what would be a reasonable and fair estimate of what it would have run?
But the reason why I made my remark which you quoted above, is because we will first have to see how "easy" or "difficult" it is for the owners to run the 11.3 spec in the car.
Running an 11.3, even in a car powerful enough to do it, such as the ZR1, still requires a great deal of skill and good conditions. Especially in a manual transmissioned car.
If people start running 11.3s right off the bat, then we will know that 10s are probably going to be sooner coming than if owners are struggling to run the 11.3 spec......for whatever reason, torque management, finding the right launch RPM, and shift points, ..... all the quirks which bedevil Z06, and C6 owners seeking to run quick times.
Piloting this, or any other car as capable as it is, to an 11.3 is not going to be an easy task that just anyone can do.
People are expecting this to be a slam dunk. 11.3 is not easy to run. Especially in a manual. Even if you are in a capable car.
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06: Indeed, we are still waiting for a private owner to run that 11.3 spec. showroom stock. That could happen any day, or it may not happen until early next year, who knows?
True, will likely take even longer thatn the Z to realize the full potential based on the limited availability.
True, will likely take even longer thatn the Z to realize the full potential based on the limited availability.
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06: With the limited number of cars in private hands at this point, the limited number of cars which will be made, and a limited number of people willing to put them on quarter mile tracks, and the somewhat oddity of drivers who are willing to work and work to get the best stock time before modding, who knows how long it will take?
agreed, but at least give it some time before criticizing it as if it's had time at all, when people take it, and it doesnt live up to the hype, then you can bash freely
agreed, but at least give it some time before criticizing it as if it's had time at all, when people take it, and it doesnt live up to the hype, then you can bash freely
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06: There are only going to be a handful of people talented enough, and willing and able to make the effort of flogging a 10 second time out of a completely stock and very expensive car. This isn't going to as easy as some of you in here seem to think.
I have said in more than one place that it is a very capable car. It has all the tools. It has what it takes. Sure it's capable, as are the Dallas Cowboys capable of reaching the Super Bowl this year. They have what it takes.
But it still has to reach those capabilities. People are already in here, myself included, crowning it a ten second car. Maybe we are jumping the gun. Indeed it will take time to reach them, but in time, I think someone will get a stock one into the tens.
BTW, I remember when the LS2 based C6 came out. Everyone just knew that it would reach the 11s because the 405 hp C5 Z06 had, and on more than one occasion. They just knew it would run with a stock C5 Z06 looking at it's "torque curve", etc. Fans of the car jumped the gun.
When the 436hp LS3 based C6 came out, again, everyone just knew that 11s were imminent. Just knew it. Again, apparently people jumped the gun.
Needless to say that no LS2 based C6 has gotten close to an 11 second time. And as for the only claimed 11 second LS3 time, well you need look no further than post #69 of this very thread to see that it is still a questionable claim in the minds of many, and people remain, and will continue to remain very skeptical of it. And no other claim of an 11 second bone stock LS3 time can be cited.
Now the ZR1. ... Everyone is predicting tens. Myself included. But it still has to do it.
"It will" you say, ...and I believe you........but, well, the Z06......has.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 10-22-2008 at 11:56 PM.
10-22-2008, 11:26 PM
#131
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Well, my reasoning is if a stock ZR1, blistered by Motor Trend drivers (who are generally above average) only netted a 11.2 and a modded ZR1 only netted a 11.0x, I think it is a pretty fair indicator that the stock tires just won't get it in the 10's. Throw a set of DR's on it and it WILL happen but in stock form, it isn't much better than a stock Z06. For some, the extra .4 second advantage might be worth mega $1,000's but not for this ole boy. Me thinks a $6,000 procharger system on a Z06 will give a ZR1 a migraine but it won't do it on stock run flats!
10-22-2008, 11:36 PM
#132
Racer
the 20" wheels/25 series rear tires about about the absolute opposite thing you'd want to do for straight line traction. The fact that those PS2's do as well as they do, and the car runs the times it does, is pretty amazing.
the problem is fitting enough sidewall/tire in the rear with the huge brakes.
the problem is fitting enough sidewall/tire in the rear with the huge brakes.
10-23-2008, 12:21 AM
#133
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Well, my reasoning is if a stock ZR1, blistered by Motor Trend drivers (who are generally above average) only netted a 11.2 and a modded ZR1 only netted a 11.0x, I think it is a pretty fair indicator that the stock tires just won't get it in the 10's. Throw a set of DR's on it and it WILL happen but in stock form, it isn't much better than a stock Z06. For some, the extra .4 second advantage might be worth mega $1,000's but not for this ole boy. Me thinks a $6,000 procharger system on a Z06 will give a ZR1 a migraine but it won't do it on stock run flats!
10-23-2008, 12:28 AM
#134
I am truly dumbfounded! How anyone can make an argument that the Z06 is as fast (or faster) than the ZR1 in the 1/4 mile is astonishing! OF COURSE the ZR1 is going to beat the best Z06 time. THE FREAK'IN THING JUST CAME OUT AND IT ALREADY SURPASSED THE 'BEST EVER' Z06 TRAP SPEED FROM YEARS OF RUNS! I can't believe anyone can truly be serious making a case for the Z06 in the 1/4 
Give it six months or so and we can revisit this post. I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, will you? 
Give it six months or so and we can revisit this post. I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, will you?
10-23-2008, 12:51 AM
#135
But the stock dyno numbers are coming in right on what GM said the car made for HP under the SAE guidlines +-2%. Were you expecting GM to lie like Nissan did with the GTR?? How can it be underwhelming when it is putting out what they advertise, you make no sense whatsoever? ??
10-23-2008, 01:01 AM
#136
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The mid 530 rwhp dyno numbers are underwhelming and equate to 16-17 percent loss through the driveline if the motor is really making 638 hp at the crank. This is probably the real reason for slower than expected quarter miles times and trap speeds. Using the typical C5Z06/C6Z06 of 12-13percent driveline loss, the rwhp should be around 560 hp. BTW, where does GM advertise rwhp???? or their driveline losses. Moreover, my understanding of the Certified SAE guidelines is that a certain number of production spec engines are tested under specified SAE guidelines and witnessed by an independent person who verifies the testing procedures, calibrations, etc. The third-party witnessing is the only real change as the engines are still tested according to the previous SAE standard. How do the SAE guidelines actually control the specs of the engines (or the PCMs) that are installed in the cars after certification? I can't find anything in the standard about periodic performance audits. The SAE Cert process appears more like a marketing gimic than a quaranty of performance. I'm not saying that GM is lying, but things always happen once full scale production starts and specs can and do change. Nissan is, however, the King of the lying carmakers with the GT-R.
10-23-2008, 01:11 AM
#137
Race Director
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2017 C5 of the Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '08
Man your ego must be fragile.
I believe I have the 2nd fastest time ever in a totally stock Viper GTS at 11.67. I believe Jamie Furman (not sure if he was driving or Heffner was) put down an 11.51 and IIRC the car was stock, maybe had K&N filters, I don't know.... and I don't care. I know what *I* can do, and if I get beat, the other guy was good. I don't need to cling to the fastest times and say all the cars run that, when I know they don't. There are a ton of 12-second Z06's out there, and few Z06's ever get above 125mph in the 1/4. As Racer said, the fast list is the cream of the crop.
One thing I have NEVER done is spent so much time on the internet calling out anyone who claimed to be fast and doing it under the guise of "I am just happy for you and want to enjoy your accomplishment".
Bottom line - the ZR1 is a *significantly* faster car than the Z06. The Z06 is fast - the ZR1 is faster, by a lot. That's life. There is a new king and it is the ZR1.
I believe I have the 2nd fastest time ever in a totally stock Viper GTS at 11.67. I believe Jamie Furman (not sure if he was driving or Heffner was) put down an 11.51 and IIRC the car was stock, maybe had K&N filters, I don't know.... and I don't care. I know what *I* can do, and if I get beat, the other guy was good. I don't need to cling to the fastest times and say all the cars run that, when I know they don't. There are a ton of 12-second Z06's out there, and few Z06's ever get above 125mph in the 1/4. As Racer said, the fast list is the cream of the crop.
One thing I have NEVER done is spent so much time on the internet calling out anyone who claimed to be fast and doing it under the guise of "I am just happy for you and want to enjoy your accomplishment".
Bottom line - the ZR1 is a *significantly* faster car than the Z06. The Z06 is fast - the ZR1 is faster, by a lot. That's life. There is a new king and it is the ZR1.
Well put!
Very nice runs, and consistent times! While it was not clear from the gate this was not a stock car, you certainly never said it was.
Some folks are extremely defensive and reactionary on this board. I also find that those are the same one's that are much more into spending time on this Forum then in the drivers seat of their Vette doing what these great cars were designed for: DRIVING THEM!!!
Again, very nice runs my friend, and congrats on the passes and having a COOL Dad!
JB
10-23-2008, 01:53 AM
#138
Team Owner
The mid 530 rwhp dyno numbers are underwhelming and equate to 16-17 percent loss through the driveline if the motor is really making 638 hp at the crank. This is probably the real reason for slower than expected quarter miles times and trap speeds. Using the typical C5Z06/C6Z06 of 12-13percent driveline loss, the rwhp should be around 560 hp. BTW, where does GM advertise rwhp???? or their driveline losses. Moreover, my understanding of the Certified SAE guidelines is that a certain number of production spec engines are tested under specified SAE guidelines and witnessed by an independent person who verifies the testing procedures, calibrations, etc. The third-party witnessing is the only real change as the engines are still tested according to the previous SAE standard. How do the SAE guidelines actually control the specs of the engines (or the PCMs) that are installed in the cars after certification? I can't find anything in the standard about periodic performance audits. The SAE Cert process appears more like a marketing gimic than a quaranty of performance. I'm not saying that GM is lying, but things always happen once full scale production starts and specs can and do change. Nissan is, however, the King of the lying carmakers with the GT-R.
10-23-2008, 05:12 AM
#139
Burning Brakes
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10-23-2008, 08:45 AM
#140
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Sure they stop 9 feet faster from 100 mph and can endure .02G more in a turn but again, the extra money doesn't justify the miniscule benefits IMO. However, if the ZR1 begins to be marketed at MSRP, I will no doubt be trading my 07 Z06 in for one. They are fabulous cars but I don't think they are a sub 11 sec. car in stock form and the majority of owners aren't buying them to rag at the track anyway!