spagsdo

This may be really old news and a repeat x 10 however..

just picked up a new vette today from LS and was told no Z for '09 due to Stingray/ss/ZR1/...

He was told may not even be a z until '12 IF it returns after intro of c-7 in '11????
Any legit input would be great. This may be good news for resale of Z06 with a limited prod. # of SS and the substantial prices might increase the demand for c-6 Z06

Datawiz

That would make me perfectly happy considering I just got an '08 Z.

427500

The Z06 will still be made in 2009

gilly6993

robvuk

I don't know why people keep thinking the ZR1 will "replace" the Z06.

NytmereZ

They will make as many as people want to buy.

O7zeeO6

Does anybody know for sure? Can anybody who has an inside knowledge confirm this? If we are only speculating, then my speculation based purely on economics, is that no there wouldn't be a Z06 because:

1. It is becoming harder to justify a paying $25K over a base C6 for 69 HP. When I bought mine in '06, it was a much easier decision. If I were to buy one now, it will take much longer time for me to make sure I made the right decision. The recent slow down in sales since the release of the 08 base C6 is a good indicator that the Z06 has gone ice cold compared to a year ago when people are paying up to $20K over MSRP. With the unbelievable $7500 below MSRP discount becoming the norm, it is a $25K-$30K price turn around compared to just a year ago! I'm sure a lot of those dealers who counted on then overly inflated price period to last longer, have long hit the panic button.

2. Is there really a room in the market for 2 super vettes? The ZR-1 will be about $30K-$60K (based on speculative/anticipated price gouging) over the Z06, and I'd say 80%-90% of those who bought Z06 and now wants a ZR-1 have deep enough pockets that this will not be an issue (look at the CF surveys done in the past regarding owners of Z06's and their annual income). GM will be able to make up for the drop in sales with the higher price tag and new owners from the P and Viper crowds. Besides, sales for the Z06 will drastically drop once the price gouging period for the ZR-1 is over, making the Z06 probably the least profitable of the 3 categories of Vettes based purely on sales volume.

Just my two cents, and yes I know it is a bias point of view because I also think that by not having a Z06 simultaneously along with the ZR-1 will make mine more special

BLU-BY-U

remember, the '06 car was several thousand cheaper msrp than '07 and '08. it's basically just coming back down to that level. I paid 68.5 for a 2lz '06 on 7-27-06

robvuk

By your logic in #1, they could easily stop making the base model. As you are well aware, there is more to it than 69hp.

By your logic in #2, there would be no need for the base model. They only plan on building 1500 ZR1's per year. That will not make up for the popular Z.

I wouldn't count the Z out just because they're discounting them. The only way they'll limit production of the Z is if they can't sell a few thousand of the 08 before the 09's are released. But I don't think that will be a problem. It's easy to think the market is tanking at this time of year.

JoesC5

I don't have any inside info, but I do believe that 2008 will be the last year of the Z06. If GM were to up the base C6 to 450Hp and offer a wide body RPO, I believe they would sell without having to have 3 models with 3 different engines.

Zippy

Les Stanford is a large dealership with many employees. Who at LS told you "no Z06 next year"?

1-2-b-67L89

We need to remember that GM is not discounting the car, the dealers are. I do not think GM is seeing any problems with moving cars (production as scheduled) and everyone wants to keep selling their share or more of Corvettes so they can cash in when the ZR-1 (or whatever it will be called) arrives. And cash in they will just like they did for over a year and a half on the 06/07 Z06's. Just my thoughts

O7zeeO6

With all due respect I disagree with your speculation that they will discontinue a model which just recently been given a shot to the arm. It is a lot more likely that they will discontinue a model which has not been significantly given a major upgrade for 3 years, other than just fixing was wasn't done right the first time around. Yes the 08 claims to have a significant upgrade, but IMHO this how this car should have been when it was first introduced! But we all know that predicting how mechanical things behave in real world is very difficult thus problems/imperfection will arise. A more business minded way of looking at it is in order to sell product in the out years to come is to not make them so perfect the first time around so that the following models will be better than the previous ones by merely making the parts that are not designed so perfectly, "better;" not having to spend resources to come up with better whole new design every year but rather every 3-4 years.

One other writing in the wall that I think I see, unless I'm seeing things which doesn't normally happen as long as I stick to consuming legal products, is the raising of the base C6 HP high enough to make it more marketable to those who are considering Z06. It is only a gut feeling (I could be wrong), but I believe that the base C6 community saw it was only fair that the base C6 only had a C5 Z06 rated HP, and wasn't really asking or expecting for more. Those who remained loyal to the base C6 were generally happy with their docile, daily driving, minimally tracked Vette's performance. Now why would GM increase its power? Can it be a pre-emptied move to attract those who can't afford or willing to pay extra, for a C6 Z06 to buy a base C6 instead thinning the demand of the Z06 in order to justify its discontinuity? All the while building the Z06 (aka HP junkie) community the next generation super Corvette? A helpful data to analyze are the base 08 C6 vs the Z06 sales during the same period of time. If they are inversely proportional, then there might be some legitimacy to my hypothesis.

I'm sure some people think that my views are out there, but it would be a boring world if all of our views are the same, wouldn't it?

allegretto

Think about it...

If any two of the three are popular;

1) Base
2) Z-trim
3) ZR-1/Whatever

The other is almost a necessity of the line. So I would agree that they'll make as many as "You, The Consumer" want to buy



and a few more...

xilr8n

umm...

C7 is due as an '12 model
SSzr1 is scheduled for 2 years and is coming out as an '09

Based on past history:
That leaves '11 ... for some sort of commemorative Z16 that wont sell real well towards the end as everyone will be waiting on the C7
They don't want that car to be the SSzr1.

Parts to use up:
They planned on a 7 year run for the Z06 and had suppliers contract for specific parts. They are only making 1500 SSzr1's per year. They won't use enough of those parts.

Rebates:
They still have lots of room to give up to $5k rebates on Z06. That extra '07 markup had nothing to do with supplies - just profit.


Based on these assumptions...

The Z06 will be around till the end of generation C6.

layjzay

Do a search back on the GM strike. They had to anounce their schedule for the next years production and the Z was in their plans.

OregonC6

Your comment is dead on. When dealers were stealing Z06 buyers blind GM made none of the extra money. Yes, GM finally raised the msrp a bit but nothing like the outrageous additional markups that dealers were getting.

I have long believed that dealers make FAR MORE money on Corvette sales than anyone comprehends. All this talk about invoice prices and such I think is just bull-made up numbers. Sell a Z06 at $10,000 off msrp and my hunch the dealer is still making TEN GRAND- or more!

It makes absolutely no sense whatever that the Z06 be discontinued. If it were the gap between the base and ZR1/SS/BD/whatever would be HUGE. What I believe will happen is approximately this for '09 and succeeding years until C7 intro:

BASE C6 430/436 hp ( maybe 450 ) $50-55K Z51 coupe

Z06 550hp $75-80K

Super Vette 650 hp $100-125K msrp +$25 - 100k gouge

I think it's possible the base might come up to 450. But whether it does or not this has about 100hp between Z06 and base and Z06 and SS/BD.

With more exotic materials perhaps the super vette will be lighter than the Z06. If so it will be even farther ahead than the 100hp might indicate.

Elimination of the Z06 would be a dumb marketing move in my opinion. Many people can afford to go up from base to Z06. However, how many of them will be able to jump to the new super?

I mean, it's not going to be a $25K premium price above the Z06....more likely $50K up to $75K...double or triple the premium.

Foosh

I can't dispute that you believe that, but you're really way, way, way off.

As has been discussed here many times, it really depends upon how you want to do your accounting. If you allocate all GM R&D performance costs to the Corvette line as their high performance "halo car", they'd be LOSING money on each and every unit, including the std C6.

However, very large auto manufacturing corporations like GM don't do their accounting that way. The reason, of course, is that other cars across the GM line benefit from the performance R&D that usually gets to production first in the Corvette.

Now imagine the Corvette as a stand-alone, small-volume, production car like Porsche or Ferrari, and it would be significantly more expensive in order for the "Corvette Company" to cover its costs and make a sustainable profit.

Even so, and considering that GM is a very large manufacturer, your numbers are still way, way, way off.

Jaxian

This thread has no purpose now. As was mentioned above as part of their agreement with the UAW GM was required to reveal the product lines for the next five years. To everyone. Go read it, this was a requirement of the contract concessions. You don't need to guess, what is normally shrouded in secrecy is out in the open for everyone to see. This will probably never happen again, at least no car manufacturer would ever want to give this kind of information up but they had to to appease the UAW.

"The United Auto Workers released a version of General Motors five-year plan to make its members feel better about their job security. Didn't do much for GM's security though, as it's become a boon to competitors and journalists. The plant list doesn't include production plans for Canadian plants, so we have no official information on what rear drive cars GM might build in addition to the Chevrolet Camaro at Oshawa, Ontario."

"But here's what we do know: C7 Corvette and Cadillac XLR. New versions are scheduled for Bowling Green, Kentucky, production in 2012, which means the 2013 model year. That's another year's delay confirmed since our November cover story on the "2012" C7."

(c) Motor Trend December 2007

If you want to read the exact wording of the UAW press release and how it addressess the C6 cars you can find it online.

vetdude

Gotta love salespeople.