[Z06] Test: C6 Z06, Gallardo, 997 Turbo, BMW M6
02-05-2007, 02:58 PM
#41
Drifting
Timing 6th gear runs is just lousy and total nonsense. 6th gear is for fuel economy only!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
02-05-2007, 03:19 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Equally important, did the 911's exhaust tips stay on?
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...11/207193.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...11/207193.html
And did they have only half a tank of gas? I hear that's all they can fill because of filler tube issues. Were they leaking oil from the main seals?
All cars have some issues.
02-05-2007, 03:31 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
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I will make this real simple for people. ALL cars are crap! Really let go of the ego and think about it. Porsches have problems, Vettes have problems, Lambos, Vipers, Mustangs. I don't think there are very many cars out there that have not had problems or recalls with them.
Basically we all pick our own brand of crap that we want to buy and enjoy it. In a perfect world I would have a 50-100 car garage with one of everything.
Basically we all pick our own brand of crap that we want to buy and enjoy it. In a perfect world I would have a 50-100 car garage with one of everything.
02-05-2007, 03:46 PM
#44
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I will make this real simple for people. ALL cars are crap! Really let go of the ego and think about it. Porsches have problems, Vettes have problems, Lambos, Vipers, Mustangs. I don't think there are very many cars out there that have not had problems or recalls with them.
Basically we all pick our own brand of crap that we want to buy and enjoy it. In a perfect world I would have a 50-100 car garage with one of everything.
Basically we all pick our own brand of crap that we want to buy and enjoy it. In a perfect world I would have a 50-100 car garage with one of everything.
I too am thankful for the differing opinions and viewpoints as long as they are not meant to just incite. The danger with any group without that stimulus is that they become inbred from listening only to themselves.
02-05-2007, 03:53 PM
#45
Drifting
You meant this tongue it cheek but I think it's so true. There are so many good cars out there that there is something to like or hate about any of them.
I too am thankful for the differing opinions and viewpoints as long as they are not meant to just incite. The danger with any group without that stimulus is that they become inbred from listening only to themselves.
I too am thankful for the differing opinions and viewpoints as long as they are not meant to just incite. The danger with any group without that stimulus is that they become inbred from listening only to themselves.
Everything is a trade off; there's a reason why, although (right now) I think the Z06 is the best thing going for my needs/wants, I still think (a lot) about a GT3.
02-05-2007, 04:15 PM
#46
Melting Slicks
Even funnier is that some 18,000+ 996 cabriolets had to be recalled when it became apparent that their tops would open unexpectedly at speed. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...rsche_911.html
As such, I always find it bizarre ignorant when 911 drivers cackle about the Z06's roof issues. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
As Robvuk accurately said, all cars have issues. I would add that you often highlight your competitor at your own risk as you too will fall down and be judged accordingly. That's one of the reasons I respond to ignorant comments about reliability and assembly quality among cars but refrain from accusing other marques of it off the top.
As such, I always find it bizarre ignorant when 911 drivers cackle about the Z06's roof issues. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
As Robvuk accurately said, all cars have issues. I would add that you often highlight your competitor at your own risk as you too will fall down and be judged accordingly. That's one of the reasons I respond to ignorant comments about reliability and assembly quality among cars but refrain from accusing other marques of it off the top.
02-05-2007, 04:32 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
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You meant this tongue it cheek but I think it's so true. There are so many good cars out there that there is something to like or hate about any of them.
I too am thankful for the differing opinions and viewpoints as long as they are not meant to just incite. The danger with any group without that stimulus is that they become inbred from listening only to themselves.
I too am thankful for the differing opinions and viewpoints as long as they are not meant to just incite. The danger with any group without that stimulus is that they become inbred from listening only to themselves.
02-05-2007, 05:40 PM
#48
Melting Slicks
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Yeah.. it's pretty serious..
Equally important, did the 911's exhaust tips stay on?
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...11/207193.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...11/207193.html
Yeah, you are right. I would equate the danger of an exhaust tip breaking on a few 911's with the roof flying off a Corvette at high speed.
What do I know... I am a
with a few thousand posts on here......
02-05-2007, 05:47 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
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Pots and Kettles..
Even funnier is that some 18,000+ 996 cabriolets had to be recalled when it became apparent that their tops would open unexpectedly at speed. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...rsche_911.html
As such, I always find it bizarre ignorant when 911 drivers cackle about the Z06's roof issues. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
As Robvuk accurately said, all cars have issues. I would add that you often highlight your competitor at your own risk as you too will fall down and be judged accordingly. That's one of the reasons I respond to ignorant comments about reliability and assembly quality among cars but refrain from accusing other marques of it off the top.
As such, I always find it bizarre ignorant when 911 drivers cackle about the Z06's roof issues. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
As Robvuk accurately said, all cars have issues. I would add that you often highlight your competitor at your own risk as you too will fall down and be judged accordingly. That's one of the reasons I respond to ignorant comments about reliability and assembly quality among cars but refrain from accusing other marques of it off the top.
How many C6 tops flew off before GM even acknowledged that there was a problem? For that matter, how many hundreds of us had our pulley bolts fail before GM acknowledged that problem existed as well?
02-05-2007, 06:20 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
According to the article, after 2 reports of the problem, Porsche issued a recall.
How many C6 tops flew off before GM even acknowledged that there was a problem? For that matter, how many hundreds of us had our pulley bolts fail before GM acknowledged that problem existed as well?
How many C6 tops flew off before GM even acknowledged that there was a problem? For that matter, how many hundreds of us had our pulley bolts fail before GM acknowledged that problem existed as well?
Let's not go there and make a p'ing match out of this. ALL cars have issues. It's the luck of the draw on how many and how serious they will be. And it's MUCH easier to issue a recall on a car that they made 5000 of instead of 50,000.
A friend of mine had a rattle in the door on his 911 and after a few trips to the dealer with no results, he took the panel off himself only to find an empty beer can lying in there.
02-05-2007, 06:23 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
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How many 911's are still leaking oil?
Let's not go there and make a p'ing match out of this. ALL cars have issues. It's the luck of the draw on how many and how serious they will be. And it's MUCH easier to issue a recall on a car that they made 5000 of instead of 50,000.
A friend of mine had a rattle in the door on his 911 and after a few trips to the dealer with no results, he took the panel off himself only to find an empty beer can lying in there.
Let's not go there and make a p'ing match out of this. ALL cars have issues. It's the luck of the draw on how many and how serious they will be. And it's MUCH easier to issue a recall on a car that they made 5000 of instead of 50,000.
A friend of mine had a rattle in the door on his 911 and after a few trips to the dealer with no results, he took the panel off himself only to find an empty beer can lying in there.
02-05-2007, 08:05 PM
#52
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Timing 6th gear runs is just lousy and total nonsense. 6th gear is for fuel economy only!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
What about the 4th and 5th gear times?
02-05-2007, 08:42 PM
#53
Drifting
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Same thing: comparing the times for gear X among cars with very different gearing does not make sense. When racing nobody ever forces all the cars to be in the same gear.
For example 997 Turbo needs 4 gears to reach 200 km/h while Z06 needs only 3 gears. The 4 close gears give an acceleration advantage from gearing, but that it is overcompensated by the higher torque of Z06 and more importantly by avoiding one gear shift.
Or in other words:
Car magazines love these gear X tests because they are easy to do (60-100 and 80-120 km/h).
For example 997 Turbo needs 4 gears to reach 200 km/h while Z06 needs only 3 gears. The 4 close gears give an acceleration advantage from gearing, but that it is overcompensated by the higher torque of Z06 and more importantly by avoiding one gear shift.
Or in other words:
Car magazines love these gear X tests because they are easy to do (60-100 and 80-120 km/h).
02-05-2007, 08:58 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
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Hmm... This ones for...
How many 911's are still leaking oil?
Let's not go there and make a p'ing match out of this. ALL cars have issues. It's the luck of the draw on how many and how serious they will be. And it's MUCH easier to issue a recall on a car that they made 5000 of instead of 50,000.
A friend of mine had a rattle in the door on his 911 and after a few trips to the dealer with no results, he took the panel off himself only to find an empty beer can lying in there.
Let's not go there and make a p'ing match out of this. ALL cars have issues. It's the luck of the draw on how many and how serious they will be. And it's MUCH easier to issue a recall on a car that they made 5000 of instead of 50,000.
A friend of mine had a rattle in the door on his 911 and after a few trips to the dealer with no results, he took the panel off himself only to find an empty beer can lying in there.
02-06-2007, 04:25 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
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Timing 6th gear runs is just lousy and total nonsense. 6th gear is for fuel economy only!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
Z06 6th has the deepest overdrive of any car I know (0.5 gear ratio). Combine that with a tall final ratio (3.42) and you get the most unfavorable total gearing (1.71). Here is the math:
Car _____ 6th ____ Final ___ Total ___ Eng.Trq. _ Torque at wheels
M6 _____ 1.00 ____ 3.62 ___ 3.62 ___ 383 ______ 1386
Gallardo _ 0.81 ____ 3.82 ___ 3.09 ___ 376 ______ 1163
997 TT __ 0.79 ____ 3.44 ___ 2.71 ___ 460 ______ 1250
Z06 _____ 0.50 ____ 3.42 ___ 1.71 ___ 470 _______ 804
Also the M6 has a 7 speed SMG transmission and the 6th is not overdrive! What a lame test!
All cars were tested in their top gear...so that's 7th for the BMW.
02-06-2007, 06:04 AM
#56
Drifting
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Curious as to how you test the BMW M5's 7th gear if it is an AUTO SMG gearing? I thouhgt it was pretty much like an automatic.
02-06-2007, 08:53 AM
#57
Drifting
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Please name one car that has a non overdrive top gear.
As for the test in 6th gear it would make sense only if the cars tested would have the same gearing, which is almost impossible. Just look at those total gearing numbers and the torque at the wheels values.
I am willing to learn, that's why I was asking about this 6th gear test.
So far I still believe is stupid, same as doing a race in 1st gear only (where obviously Z06 would win). Or organizing a race where the cars must start and stay in 3th gear all the time.
02-06-2007, 09:43 AM
#58
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Now, if the all the cars tested could pull redline in top gear I might give it a bit more credibility. That they don't speaks to how the top gear really is oriented toward cruise and economy standards.
02-06-2007, 12:05 PM
#60
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There is so much variance is the final drive that I think the test is worthless. It's a throwback to when most cars were 1:1 at the output shaft.
Now, if the all the cars tested could pull redline in top gear I might give it a bit more credibility. That they don't speaks to how the top gear really is oriented toward cruise and economy standards.
Now, if the all the cars tested could pull redline in top gear I might give it a bit more credibility. That they don't speaks to how the top gear really is oriented toward cruise and economy standards.
If the Z06 won any of those tests, surley many members here would praise it, since it didn't it's passed off.
Last edited by Hartley; 02-06-2007 at 12:10 PM.