[Z06] Tired of hearing about 08 600 HP Viper![Merged, ALL Viper talk here]
01-10-2007, 04:39 PM
#141
Safety Car
I just think that the Viper guys were king of performance for so long and then the new Z06 was such a home run and better performer that this new viper may bring the crown home, no matter the cost. However, with the Blue Devil out there and Dodge has shown it's hand, I believe that if the Viper performs as it should, the king of performance will be short lived. With that being said..........the Z guys for the most part will still be Z guys and the Viper guys will still be Viper guys and being the type of guys that we are, smack talking will be par for the course. Lets just keep it friendly as I think we have and enjoy both cars.
01-10-2007, 04:49 PM
#142
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If people wants to bench race, why not bench race on an even playing field, lets say 08 Viper vs Corvette SS/BD since both have not been tested, both have 600+ hp, both will be on the $100K range? Am I missing something? To me Z06 vs 08 Viper is like Z06 vs C6. Just my 2 pennies worth.
01-10-2007, 04:54 PM
#143
Melting Slicks
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Where the heck are high performance sports cars headed for the future. Isn't there such a thing as too much power for the street? I know you can make better and better Stability control systems and what not, but where does it stop? I guess it still has a ways to go seeing as the bugati Veyron is a street legal 1000hp sports car.
01-10-2007, 05:00 PM
#144
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ZR1 was king, then along came viper, ZR1 was still king of the hill. ZR1 was about to roll out a 450HP version I beleive in 96 or so. Probably still would have been king.
Point. Viper wasnt king when it hit the streets.
ZR1 gone, Viper king for a while.
06/Z06 hits, and is king.
Viper hasnt run the show every year its been out.
Point. Viper wasnt king when it hit the streets.
ZR1 gone, Viper king for a while.
06/Z06 hits, and is king.
Viper hasnt run the show every year its been out.
01-10-2007, 05:16 PM
#145
Team Owner
Where the heck are high performance sports cars headed for the future. Isn't there such a thing as too much power for the street? I know you can make better and better Stability control systems and what not, but where does it stop? I guess it still has a ways to go seeing as the bugati Veyron is a street legal 1000hp sports car.
Toyota has a 400 HP hybrid Sports car coming probably.
Only so fast you can drive. Even the Pro's have been slowed down in all racing venues. In the 60's, 70's, 80's and part of the 90's NASCAR just kept getting faster. Get s to a point where people can't drive them no less amateur costumers.
01-10-2007, 05:31 PM
#146
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I must admit, I don't know much about Vipers, so since I trust Google to make me smart most of the time, I typed "Viper ACR" then hit search, and after flipping through 5 pages of google search results, all I can find was articles and e-bay for sale pages of the 1999-2002 Viper ACR, which I'm sure not the one you are not referring to. I'm sure you are referring to a 2008+ Viper ACR of some sort. For comparison purposes, I typed Corvette SS, Corvette Bluedevil, even Corvette Z07, and google came up with numerous articles from reputable magazines, forums, etc. Feel free to try this yourself. Just from this small research, I think that comparing a car which doesn't seem to be as close to production as the Corvette blue devil/SS will still be an uneven playing field since it seems that not even one reputable magazine has written about it's speculated specs. What are you going to compare 650hp, and less than 3150 lbs curb weight to? I'm sure someone can pull numbers from the air based on past ACR's, but not even making it to the rumor pages of reputable magazines only tells me that it is much farther away from production than the 2009 Corvette Bluedevil/SS, and probably only in someone's wish list at best in this point in time IMHO.
01-10-2007, 06:10 PM
#147
Safety Car
Everyone that thinks the new Viper will kill the Z06 will be in a surprise.
Lets do some calculations real quick (that will not tell the entire story, but help with where we stand as Z06 owners against the Viper)
600 bhp is about 510 rwhp given a 15% drivetrain loss.
600 * .85 = 510.
If the Vipers comes in at 3400 lbs, we have:
3400 lbs / 510 rwhp = 6.66
Lets take a C6 Z06 with 450 rwhp coming in at 3132 lbs.
3132 / 450 = 6.96
Ok, the Viper has the better power/weight, but, the Viper still comes with 3.07 final drive, leaving the Z06 with the gearing advantage still.
In conclusion, I think it will be a good race, and if the Viper were to beat the Z06, it will be by .2 secs and 1-2 mph.
Lets do some calculations real quick (that will not tell the entire story, but help with where we stand as Z06 owners against the Viper)
600 bhp is about 510 rwhp given a 15% drivetrain loss.
600 * .85 = 510.
If the Vipers comes in at 3400 lbs, we have:
3400 lbs / 510 rwhp = 6.66
Lets take a C6 Z06 with 450 rwhp coming in at 3132 lbs.
3132 / 450 = 6.96
Ok, the Viper has the better power/weight, but, the Viper still comes with 3.07 final drive, leaving the Z06 with the gearing advantage still.
In conclusion, I think it will be a good race, and if the Viper were to beat the Z06, it will be by .2 secs and 1-2 mph.
01-10-2007, 06:58 PM
#149
Drifting
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Viper sounds like a winner but it is not
Like, I suspect, most contributors to this thread, I cannot afford a Viper. I could stretch for a Z06 and might but also could not afford the likely to be crazy money priced SS/Bluedevil.
What I can afford to do is carefully read this forum and others related to Corvettes, Vipers, and other performance cars such as the GT500 Mustang. I have developed several opinions from all this reading:
1/ Dodge is serious about building powerful race cars for the street.
(We don't hear about the Viper clutch sticking to the floor or failing llike we hear about it with the Z06.)
2/ Dodge is serious about performance reliability engineering. They build big, powerful engines with proven technology and not neat nifty new gimmicks. ( I have not heard about valve or spun bearing problems with the Viper engine.)
3/ The Dodge Viper has head turning styling that wins over the Z06 hands down.
4/ The Viper is a corporate image car for Dodge not a mass produced profit center in itself. They don't want it blowing motors, losing tops, or having crummy clutches or brakes that wear out in an afternoon at the track. IMO They do not cut corners with the Viper.
However, the Z06 and C6 are all about cutting corners all over the cars. Clutch, brakes, transmission, interior....so many things left to owners to live with or attempt to get fixed. How many Viper owners do you suppose seriously see the need to replace their brakes or clutches?
The Viper costs more than the Z06 because, IMO, it has more value in actual parts and materials built into it. It is a better car. It's better IMO because they want it to be better. The Z06 is inferior to it because GM is more interested in fluffing up the margin on the C6 and Z06 than making it better. The Corvette is a mass marketed car while the Viper is a very small production car.
Now, I don't want a Viper and would call myself a Chevy man now and way back when I was 19. I love my mass produced base C6 and think it's a great car for the money. However, pardon me please, I just see the present Corvette Z06 as inferior to the Viper in terms of what GM is willing to spend on it in engineering development and manufacturing cost.
( Do any of you suppose that Viper owners need to remove and replace clutch fluid eye dropper full at a time every time it gets the least bit discolored-simply so the clutch will continue to work? No, such a requirement is a joke, a slap in the face of Z06 owners, and clear proof, IMO, that GM is not as serious as their competition. )
What I can afford to do is carefully read this forum and others related to Corvettes, Vipers, and other performance cars such as the GT500 Mustang. I have developed several opinions from all this reading:
1/ Dodge is serious about building powerful race cars for the street.
(We don't hear about the Viper clutch sticking to the floor or failing llike we hear about it with the Z06.)
2/ Dodge is serious about performance reliability engineering. They build big, powerful engines with proven technology and not neat nifty new gimmicks. ( I have not heard about valve or spun bearing problems with the Viper engine.)
3/ The Dodge Viper has head turning styling that wins over the Z06 hands down.
4/ The Viper is a corporate image car for Dodge not a mass produced profit center in itself. They don't want it blowing motors, losing tops, or having crummy clutches or brakes that wear out in an afternoon at the track. IMO They do not cut corners with the Viper.
However, the Z06 and C6 are all about cutting corners all over the cars. Clutch, brakes, transmission, interior....so many things left to owners to live with or attempt to get fixed. How many Viper owners do you suppose seriously see the need to replace their brakes or clutches?
The Viper costs more than the Z06 because, IMO, it has more value in actual parts and materials built into it. It is a better car. It's better IMO because they want it to be better. The Z06 is inferior to it because GM is more interested in fluffing up the margin on the C6 and Z06 than making it better. The Corvette is a mass marketed car while the Viper is a very small production car.
Now, I don't want a Viper and would call myself a Chevy man now and way back when I was 19. I love my mass produced base C6 and think it's a great car for the money. However, pardon me please, I just see the present Corvette Z06 as inferior to the Viper in terms of what GM is willing to spend on it in engineering development and manufacturing cost.
( Do any of you suppose that Viper owners need to remove and replace clutch fluid eye dropper full at a time every time it gets the least bit discolored-simply so the clutch will continue to work? No, such a requirement is a joke, a slap in the face of Z06 owners, and clear proof, IMO, that GM is not as serious as their competition. )
Also Vipers have their share of problems, like any other car.
For $20,000 I can fix all the issues that would [unlikely] remain after my warranty expires. My car has zero problems so far.
And don't forget that C6 Z06 is certainly faster than the current Viper, as per all the published tests.
01-10-2007, 07:59 PM
#150
Le Mans Master
Since when is the Viper free from problems? Since when does the Viper have a premiere interior? Since when does the Viper have superior materials built into it?
I think GM has done a great job proving to the world that they can build a world class supercar. They are constantly comparing to Europe's best and until the Z06 came along, the Viper was rarely compared to the world supercars.
01-10-2007, 08:38 PM
#151
Drifting
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01-10-2007, 09:07 PM
#152
Le Mans Master
01-10-2007, 09:15 PM
#153
Burning Brakes
Here is a video
Here is a video that was posted on a viper site. shows the 08 viper going for a drive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoipgU2gy0
And a short write up link that is not a production car, but one that has extras etc.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoipgU2gy0
And a short write up link that is not a production car, but one that has extras etc.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightlin...etroitAutoShow
01-10-2007, 09:35 PM
#154
Drifting
[QUOTE=OregonC6;1558456345]Like, I suspect, most contributors to this thread, I cannot afford a Viper. I could stretch for a Z06 and might but also could not afford the likely to be crazy money priced SS/Bluedevil.
What I can afford to do is carefully read this forum and others related to Corvettes, Vipers, and other performance cars such as the GT500 Mustang. I have developed several opinions from all this reading:
2/ Dodge is serious about performance reliability engineering. They build big, powerful engines with proven technology and not neat nifty new gimmicks. ( I have not heard about valve or spun bearing problems with the Viper engine.)
i know someone whose new viper with 2500 miles is having the motor rebuilt...they are sending it back to the factory to repair a possible valve/lifter problem...will take 10 to 11 weeks...happened while he was driving on track....its a pos just like every other dodge/ chrysler
What I can afford to do is carefully read this forum and others related to Corvettes, Vipers, and other performance cars such as the GT500 Mustang. I have developed several opinions from all this reading:
2/ Dodge is serious about performance reliability engineering. They build big, powerful engines with proven technology and not neat nifty new gimmicks. ( I have not heard about valve or spun bearing problems with the Viper engine.)
i know someone whose new viper with 2500 miles is having the motor rebuilt...they are sending it back to the factory to repair a possible valve/lifter problem...will take 10 to 11 weeks...happened while he was driving on track....its a pos just like every other dodge/ chrysler
01-10-2007, 09:54 PM
#155
Le Mans Master
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I am awed at the 8 pages of intelligence, sophistication and knowledge found here.
A year ago many here were poking fun at the Viper guys for making the same stupid comments about the Z06.
A year ago many here were poking fun at the Viper guys for making the same stupid comments about the Z06.
01-10-2007, 10:18 PM
#156
Safety Car
01-10-2007, 10:50 PM
#157
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01-10-2007, 10:59 PM
#158
Safety Car
01-11-2007, 12:06 AM
#159
Burning Brakes
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They probably want be able to introduce anything Viper related anymore after this one. The Viper is on course for extinction...they know it and thats why we re seeing a 600hp Viper after taking a whole production year off the Viper line...(see no 2007 Viper was made). I don't think they even sold 2000 Vipers last year. .
If a car sells for over list, that has nothing to do with the manufacturer, only the dealer. Manufacturer made their money the day the dealer put in their order for the car to be built.
01-11-2007, 01:21 AM
#160
Melting Slicks
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It's a shame this Viper won't race in ALMS.
Maybe it will be Dodge's CoT in NASCRAP in 2009.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/6350550
Maybe it will be Dodge's CoT in NASCRAP in 2009.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/6350550