[Z06] Z06 Advantages over Used Porsche GT3
09-07-2006, 11:42 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by F-1
I don't think the same mechanic that works on a AVEO is the same that is going to work on a Z06. They have to be certified to work on specific machinery and we know that there are special components to the Z06 that are unique to that vehicle alone including the base C6.
The way your treated by the service manager will be the same as the AVEO owner in most cases, but the car is different.
The way your treated by the service manager will be the same as the AVEO owner in most cases, but the car is different.
like the poster in question actually could tell us about a service experience with either marque?
09-08-2006, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by pDz
troll extraordinaire.
like the poster in question actually could tell us about a service experience with either marque?
like the poster in question actually could tell us about a service experience with either marque?
09-08-2006, 07:43 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by F-1
Nice, PDZ. This thread was quite civilized until that remark unlike many others. Not that anyone else is counting aside from yourself, but I currently own a GM product and have since 2000. Others currently in the stable are 1 Porsche, 1 BMW, 2 Toyotas, 1 Honda, 1 trailer, 2 race go karts (Rotax and Comer) and a partridge in a pair tree. Been to the service dealers with all.
09-09-2006, 05:52 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by pDz
actually, if you can swing both for awhile, i'd get both and then let the one that you like 'less' after the first month.
not like you'd lose money on either.
does that seem like a good solution?
not like you'd lose money on either.
does that seem like a good solution?
Too large a drain on cash resources, I can't swing it. Plus my wife is accurate with an MP5, and my knees don't support evasive well enough anymore
Plus, the Lotus guys tell me the 08 Lotus Esprit replacement is going to be competively priced against the marked up Z06, have the Colin Chapman "light is right" under 3000 pound philosophy, with a 400 hp BMW engine, coming to market under the GT3 pricing. So one more country heard from.
I actually would like to strip everything out of the Z06 not necessary to the car's running except air conditioning (ok, I'm a wimp), and see how light I could get it. Anybody done that yet?
The Elise isn't enough car for the long haul, but the no frills approach to lightweight handling has infected my brain. That and finding my old helmet in the garage? Five years between replacement?
09-09-2006, 07:54 PM
#45
Originally Posted by 04 C5 Black Coupe
The Elise isn't enough car for the long haul, but the no frills approach to lightweight handling has infected my brain. That and finding my old helmet in the garage? Five years between replacement?
It may be because the GT3 is like the ultimate car I would have wanted my 1967 MG Midget to be (my first car). I know you can never go back and re-live your youth, but that was still the most fun car I've owned (in my memory). The car was slow and had a very hot interior, but, it handled and sounded fantastic, and it had a sense of old world heritage to it with wire wheels, racing wood steering wheel, and the Lucas dash gages (they actually caught fire do to an electrical short) . . . but that just added to the aura of driving English sports cars.
The Eilise is a real fun car to drive, but I agree with you that it would be hard to live with at this stage in my life, and at 6'4", it would be a tad cramped.
I still love my '01 C5, and with mods including 4.10 gears, stage 3 clutch, AR headers and Corsa cat-backs, ZO6 sway bars, Haltech intake and Hurst shifter, it is still very fun to drive. I'm fortunate to also have an '04 Mercedes S600, an '04 Infinity M45, and an '02 custom Suburban. So, the Vette is my toy car, as would be the ZO6 or GT3.
The C6 ZO6 is a great car, but besides being faster and having better handling than my C5, it may just be more of the same.
I guess the GT3 intrigues me because it is different, and it may provide more of the pure sports car excitement that I'm looking for, over the ZO6. But, I would miss the comaraderie of owning a Corvette, and thus my ultimate dilemma that I need to sort out. And, I've never pictured myself as a Porsche owner.
Last edited by beden1; 09-09-2006 at 08:00 PM.
09-09-2006, 08:01 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by outnumbered
Great civil posting.
I have been working on test driving a Porsche soon.
Have been in an Elise.
I thought I had to lose some weight to get out.Felt like a chimp crawling out of the small cage hole. Really cool car though.Thanks for the no nonsense comparisons.It is very useful.
Good one Dan....
A guy in my neighborhood has a Lotus.. Sweet ride but he wishes he had my Z everytime he sees it....
09-09-2006, 08:55 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by louieT
Good one Dan.... A guy in my neighborhood has a Lotus.. Sweet ride but he wishes he had my Z everytime he sees it....
I've lost 30 lbs, and now I can get in and out of the damned Elise!! Just happened to chat with a gent who was getting something out of his parked LeMans Blue Z06 in Los Gatos, CA.Gave him my card, and he says he may let me drive his Z06 to get the feel for it on a less busy day than today. Quite a nice offer. I do think the LeMans Blue is a beautiful color for the shape, although I like the black even better. But my Elise is Black, and my last C5 Vette was black, and one of my two Vipers was black, so I just may be biased :- )
09-09-2006, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1
The C6 ZO6 is a great car, but besides being faster and having better handling than my C5, it may just be more of the same.
I guess the GT3 intrigues me because it is different, and it may provide more of the pure sports car excitement that I'm looking for, over the ZO6. But, I would miss the comaraderie of owning a Corvette, and thus my ultimate dilemma that I need to sort out. And, I've never pictured myself as a Porsche owner.
I guess the GT3 intrigues me because it is different, and it may provide more of the pure sports car excitement that I'm looking for, over the ZO6. But, I would miss the comaraderie of owning a Corvette, and thus my ultimate dilemma that I need to sort out. And, I've never pictured myself as a Porsche owner.
Your last point is similar to what I was going through. After talking to a Porsche salesperson and being treated like crap I decided I was a Corvette guy, not a Porsche guy....although there were plenty of Z06 salespersons I talked to that were the same...so I know I'm not being totally unbiased. I didn't feel as if I would fit in as a Porsche owner since I'm a military guy and not in the upper income brackets....and I'm not going to try to be someone I'm not.
09-10-2006, 12:27 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by 98Pacecar
Your last point is similar to what I was going through. After talking to a Porsche salesperson and being treated like crap I decided I was a Corvette guy, not a Porsche guy....although there were plenty of Z06 salespersons I talked to that were the same...so I know I'm not being totally unbiased. I didn't feel as if I would fit in as a Porsche owner since I'm a military guy and not in the upper income brackets....and I'm not going to try to be someone I'm not.
09-10-2006, 01:43 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by RR4
The Z06 no matter how much newer it is over the GT3 will fall apart quicker than any GT3.
When when you take it to the shop for repairs one of GM's grease-monkey's who is used to repairing Zappers and "I ROCK's"
will work on your fab ZO6.
The fact that I'd have to take my car to a GM dealership for repair is the deal breaker for me. They treat you the same as someone who just bought that used POS Lumina from the GM Optimum lot. No thanks.
When when you take it to the shop for repairs one of GM's grease-monkey's who is used to repairing Zappers and "I ROCK's"
will work on your fab ZO6. The fact that I'd have to take my car to a GM dealership for repair is the deal breaker for me. They treat you the same as someone who just bought that used POS Lumina from the GM Optimum lot. No thanks.
Last edited by slwhite; 09-10-2006 at 01:48 AM.
09-10-2006, 11:06 AM
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Okay, here goes 04 C5 Black Coupe,
As you know from prior posts, I was in the same boat with you a while back between the Elise, GT3 and Z06 along with C5 Frank and many others on this thread. I happened to go with the GT3 for reasons I already stated.
Well yesterday I was at a BMW Autocross where 106 entries of all makes and models were present including 2 GT3s, several Elises and 1 new Z06. I spoke with everyone, so this post is to get you their impressions from the owners side instead of just my driving each cars' impression.
A guy I see with a new car every time he autocrosses had an Elise at the last autocross I attended about 6 months ago. I ask where it was and he said he sold it. Asked why, he said that it was too much of a pain in the a$$ to get in and out of, his wife would get in it because she had a hard time getting in and out of it and it was just too track oriented for him. He sold it and got an E-36 M3.
I spoke with the Z06 owner who has had an //M Roadster, BMW Z8, and still has a GT3 and Z06. He said he tried to live with the GT3, but decided to sell it after 2 months. He said it was a difficult car to drive well and that on track he didn't mind, but on the street you really have to pay attention and he didn't want to do that all the time. He said he bought the C6Z06 recently but before the new MSRP went up with all the options going up as well. He paid $71k where the same optioned car now would cost appx. $80k now. He's only had the car for 300 miles, so he doesn't have too much to go on, but he said he likes the car very much on the street and doesn't have to worry like he did with the GT3. He overheard me talking to another guy on how it was difficult to find a place to get a pizza box in my GT3 one night and he then opened up the back and showed me the room for the "Costco" runs.
As has been the case with many owners opinions, he said the interior was chinzy, and pointed out all the plastic pieces and thin leather seats, but he went on to say that he is going to remove those pieces and replace them with upgraded aftermarket pieces. He seemed very happy.
As you know from prior posts, I was in the same boat with you a while back between the Elise, GT3 and Z06 along with C5 Frank and many others on this thread. I happened to go with the GT3 for reasons I already stated.
Well yesterday I was at a BMW Autocross where 106 entries of all makes and models were present including 2 GT3s, several Elises and 1 new Z06. I spoke with everyone, so this post is to get you their impressions from the owners side instead of just my driving each cars' impression.
A guy I see with a new car every time he autocrosses had an Elise at the last autocross I attended about 6 months ago. I ask where it was and he said he sold it. Asked why, he said that it was too much of a pain in the a$$ to get in and out of, his wife would get in it because she had a hard time getting in and out of it and it was just too track oriented for him. He sold it and got an E-36 M3.
I spoke with the Z06 owner who has had an //M Roadster, BMW Z8, and still has a GT3 and Z06. He said he tried to live with the GT3, but decided to sell it after 2 months. He said it was a difficult car to drive well and that on track he didn't mind, but on the street you really have to pay attention and he didn't want to do that all the time. He said he bought the C6Z06 recently but before the new MSRP went up with all the options going up as well. He paid $71k where the same optioned car now would cost appx. $80k now. He's only had the car for 300 miles, so he doesn't have too much to go on, but he said he likes the car very much on the street and doesn't have to worry like he did with the GT3. He overheard me talking to another guy on how it was difficult to find a place to get a pizza box in my GT3 one night and he then opened up the back and showed me the room for the "Costco" runs.
As has been the case with many owners opinions, he said the interior was chinzy, and pointed out all the plastic pieces and thin leather seats, but he went on to say that he is going to remove those pieces and replace them with upgraded aftermarket pieces. He seemed very happy.
09-10-2006, 11:11 AM
#52
Originally Posted by 04 C5 Black Coupe
What do you guys think are the advantages of a Z06 over a 2004 Porsche GT3 under extended warranty?
I'm in an Elise now, really enjoying the light weight and handling, but really enjoyed both of my C5s (98 and 04).
Looking to approximate the light weight handling of an Elise, but in a car that I don't have to work so hard to get into and out of.
New Z06s seem to be about $78K and '04 GT3s seem to be about $88K
currently. I'm looking at next June. Maybe a bit earlier.
Forget the usual P-Car vs. Vette bashing, I'm a C5 Forum member, and a long time Vette dude, so I'm not some P-Car guy dropping in to stir up trouble. I'm really on the fence between the Z06 and the GT3, and looking for opinions and reasons for one or the other.
I'm in an Elise now, really enjoying the light weight and handling, but really enjoyed both of my C5s (98 and 04).
Looking to approximate the light weight handling of an Elise, but in a car that I don't have to work so hard to get into and out of.
New Z06s seem to be about $78K and '04 GT3s seem to be about $88K
currently. I'm looking at next June. Maybe a bit earlier.
Forget the usual P-Car vs. Vette bashing, I'm a C5 Forum member, and a long time Vette dude, so I'm not some P-Car guy dropping in to stir up trouble. I'm really on the fence between the Z06 and the GT3, and looking for opinions and reasons for one or the other.
09-12-2006, 01:07 AM
#53
Safety Car
Originally Posted by RR4
The Z06 no matter how much newer it is over the GT3 will fall apart quicker than any GT3.
When when you take it to the shop for repairs one of GM's grease-monkey's who is used to repairing Zappers and "I ROCK's" will work on your fab ZO6.
The fact that I'd have to take my car to a GM dealership for repair is the deal breaker for me. They treat you the same as someone who just bought that used POS Lumina from the GM Optimum lot. No thanks.
When when you take it to the shop for repairs one of GM's grease-monkey's who is used to repairing Zappers and "I ROCK's"
will work on your fab ZO6. The fact that I'd have to take my car to a GM dealership for repair is the deal breaker for me. They treat you the same as someone who just bought that used POS Lumina from the GM Optimum lot. No thanks.
A new troll has already gone fishing and hooked a few already. A one post wonder.
09-12-2006, 02:03 AM
#54
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For posters slamming Vette reliability, I can only relate my personal experience.
I actually had NO reliability problems with either my 98 C5 Convertible or my 04 C5 Coupe. (not even the dreaded column lock) We had a dedicated mechanic at the local dealer who was a Vette fan and very careful. My personal Vette sales guy, Joel Kim, couldn't be better. I'd buy from him anytime, at any dealership. So I may be in the minority, but I have been very pleased with the dealers on the Vette. On the Vipers, I used an independent Tech (Ted) who is a member of the local chapter of the Viper Club of America, and he was super also. The only place I ran into trouble with car care was interestingly at the Ferrari dealer. The mechanic was fine, but the sense I got rolling in the door was that every trip was calculated to cost in the tens of thousands and took weeks to complete. Unfortunately, they are also my Lotus dealer so I need to work with them. Luckily once I get to the mechanic, things are fine. So I think the Chevy/Dodge guys are much preferred over the exotic car dealers from anecdotal experience. My last Porsches were in the days that Tom Amon owned T&D Porsche, and he did a great job on my 82 911, but no one could keep the 77 running right :- ) I didn't much care for the Porsche dealers for the same reason as the Ferraris. They just seemed to always have quite a bit more work, at a little more than they estimated waiting at the end of the phone once the car was in the shop. Never had that problem with the Vettes or the Vipers.
Anyway, I think I've reached some conclusions. The GT3 is out.
I'm going to wait and see if the new Esprit comes in under $100,000 and if not, I'm going to go with either the Z06 in LeMans blue or back to a blue Viper SRT (mine was red with black stripes) depending on differential pricing. If the Z06s are going to cost $88,000 locally, and I can get a new Viper SRT for $68,000, I'll strongly consider the SRT again.
Either way, I'm starting to think that I'll keep the Elise, and just dump the Range Rover. I rarely travel off road these days. The GT3 doesn't sound like an Elise replacement, but then, nothing does. So the Elise will probably become a track and fun car, and the Z06/Viper/Esprit the daily driver. I like all three so well that it is a coin toss from there.
Can't see how anyone can go wrong with any of these.
Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated. Looking at between March and June for taking delivery on the final choice. I'll post with what I get.
I actually had NO reliability problems with either my 98 C5 Convertible or my 04 C5 Coupe. (not even the dreaded column lock) We had a dedicated mechanic at the local dealer who was a Vette fan and very careful. My personal Vette sales guy, Joel Kim, couldn't be better. I'd buy from him anytime, at any dealership. So I may be in the minority, but I have been very pleased with the dealers on the Vette. On the Vipers, I used an independent Tech (Ted) who is a member of the local chapter of the Viper Club of America, and he was super also. The only place I ran into trouble with car care was interestingly at the Ferrari dealer. The mechanic was fine, but the sense I got rolling in the door was that every trip was calculated to cost in the tens of thousands and took weeks to complete. Unfortunately, they are also my Lotus dealer so I need to work with them. Luckily once I get to the mechanic, things are fine. So I think the Chevy/Dodge guys are much preferred over the exotic car dealers from anecdotal experience. My last Porsches were in the days that Tom Amon owned T&D Porsche, and he did a great job on my 82 911, but no one could keep the 77 running right :- ) I didn't much care for the Porsche dealers for the same reason as the Ferraris. They just seemed to always have quite a bit more work, at a little more than they estimated waiting at the end of the phone once the car was in the shop. Never had that problem with the Vettes or the Vipers.
Anyway, I think I've reached some conclusions. The GT3 is out.
I'm going to wait and see if the new Esprit comes in under $100,000 and if not, I'm going to go with either the Z06 in LeMans blue or back to a blue Viper SRT (mine was red with black stripes) depending on differential pricing. If the Z06s are going to cost $88,000 locally, and I can get a new Viper SRT for $68,000, I'll strongly consider the SRT again.
Either way, I'm starting to think that I'll keep the Elise, and just dump the Range Rover. I rarely travel off road these days. The GT3 doesn't sound like an Elise replacement, but then, nothing does. So the Elise will probably become a track and fun car, and the Z06/Viper/Esprit the daily driver. I like all three so well that it is a coin toss from there.
Can't see how anyone can go wrong with any of these.
Thanks for the help guys. Much appreciated. Looking at between March and June for taking delivery on the final choice. I'll post with what I get.
09-12-2006, 02:28 AM
#55
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I haven't read every response and I don't know if this has been addressed, but much depends on how much you'll be driving the car. I had to choose between a 996GT3 vs Turbo. Turbo a little faster in a straight line, GT3 more connected, visceral and a little faster in the twisties. I drive my Porsches 7-10k miles/year. To me it makes absolutely no sense to buy a Z06, Viper, Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini and let it collect dust. These cars are toys- we don't need anything even remotely as sophisticated as the cars we drive, and since tomorrow isn't guaranteed, IMO we need to enjoy our toys. Okay, back on track. . .The GT3 pedal efforts and steering efforts are high. Sound system sucks. Road noise is ever-present. Car is absofrigginlutely glued to the road. Z06 (or 911 Turbo) is more of a street car, orders of magnitude more comfortable, fast enough for track days and reliable enough to hold dual duty, nice OEM sound/nav, faster in straight line than GT3. If you drive any of these cars at 10/10, capabilities are beyond 99% of drivers and speed high enough to guarantee fatality.
In your shoes I'd take a Turbo or Z06 over a GT3. Given the price requirements the Z06 fits the bill. You may like driving the GT3 but if it's your only sports car and/or somewhat regular transportation, you won't like living with it- these cars held their value, but there's a reason why so many of them in relative terms are for sale. For me, a GT3 would be a track day/one day per week commuter, as opposed to a Z06 or Turbo that I drive nearly everyday.
In your shoes I'd take a Turbo or Z06 over a GT3. Given the price requirements the Z06 fits the bill. You may like driving the GT3 but if it's your only sports car and/or somewhat regular transportation, you won't like living with it- these cars held their value, but there's a reason why so many of them in relative terms are for sale. For me, a GT3 would be a track day/one day per week commuter, as opposed to a Z06 or Turbo that I drive nearly everyday.
09-12-2006, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 04 C5 Black Coupe
My thoughts are that the Lotus Elise put me back in touch with elemental sports car driving, and reminded me that I really like it. It does have ABS, but has a small, lousy air conditioner, and a lightweight radio, along with shell seats with leather over them, and power windows that you reach across the car to activate. That's IT for luxury, and the 190 hp car weighs in at 1975 lbs or so. I'm really enjoying the connected feeling of driving. I just can't stand hauling my butt over the aluminum frame from the go cart seats because I'm getting old and decrepit.
But having that feeling is very different than my Vettes or Viper (or worst of all my very, very short ownership of a Ferrari Testarossa -in my humble opinion the most overrated car in history-) By comparison they all feel heavy and not as razor sharp as the Elise. I understand that nothing beats taking the weight out of a car, but the Z06 at 3186 lbs or so is lighter than my Viper was, and by all reports is a better car.
I drove a 2002 911 Turbo, and came away feeling isolated, and insulated. Too many creature comforts and electronic nannies, and not a raw enough feeling. The Cayman I drove seems more elemental, and a better driver but even in the S didn't feel like it had enough power for its weight.
A new GT3 is out of my price range.... I think I need to stay in the 80s as my top end, and even that is a stretch for me.
I've been working on this a bit, and will for quite a while longer. I still have all my Corvette stuff, including my leather jacket, shirts, and now expired membership in the C5 Forum, and I really enjoyed the Vette "wave" (as a former motorcyclist) that no one else seems to share. So I'm drawn to the Z06.
But right or wrong, I'm thinking that the "lightweight, tossable" edge might go to the GT3, but I haven't driven one yet.
So those are MY thoughts, but I already had those. I'm really looking for other owners/driver's thoughts, and I appreciate you taking the time to post yours.
But having that feeling is very different than my Vettes or Viper (or worst of all my very, very short ownership of a Ferrari Testarossa -in my humble opinion the most overrated car in history-) By comparison they all feel heavy and not as razor sharp as the Elise. I understand that nothing beats taking the weight out of a car, but the Z06 at 3186 lbs or so is lighter than my Viper was, and by all reports is a better car.
I drove a 2002 911 Turbo, and came away feeling isolated, and insulated. Too many creature comforts and electronic nannies, and not a raw enough feeling. The Cayman I drove seems more elemental, and a better driver but even in the S didn't feel like it had enough power for its weight.
A new GT3 is out of my price range.... I think I need to stay in the 80s as my top end, and even that is a stretch for me.
I've been working on this a bit, and will for quite a while longer. I still have all my Corvette stuff, including my leather jacket, shirts, and now expired membership in the C5 Forum, and I really enjoyed the Vette "wave" (as a former motorcyclist) that no one else seems to share. So I'm drawn to the Z06.
But right or wrong, I'm thinking that the "lightweight, tossable" edge might go to the GT3, but I haven't driven one yet.
So those are MY thoughts, but I already had those. I'm really looking for other owners/driver's thoughts, and I appreciate you taking the time to post yours.
Hey... good post. I think he's right.
The GT3 is a knife... the Z06 is a sword. Sometimes a knife is what you need.
09-12-2006, 08:44 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by SMFCPACFP
A new troll has already gone fishing and hooked a few already. A one post wonder.
09-12-2006, 05:01 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by 98Pacecar
I just went through a similar debate. Having sold my 04 Z06 and Mini Cooper S (loved both of them) I was on the fence looking at the 996 911TT or the new Z06. The deciding factors for me were:
I have wanted a Porsche Turbo car for 30 years....but in the end I decided the factors that were going into this car purchase made the Z06 a better choice for ME. I think everyone has to do the same.
Both are great cars....good luck in your decision!
- I could drive whenever I wanted without worrying about racking up miles - I would always be worried about putting miles on the Porsche (look at mileage on almost every Porsche being sold).
- I could work on myself if needed - Not sure I could do that with the Porsche and paying a tech would be pretty expensive. The Z06 I can keep under warranty for the next 7 years and I can do most work myself.
- Upkeep wouldn't put me in the poor house - Porsche parts are expensive.
- Used car finance rates are considerably higher than new car finance rates....for those of us poor working folk who can't pay cash.
- I've autocrossed my 98 Pace Car, a 97 M3 and my MINI and done very well....first out of 22 in my class at the last autocross....so I know and appreciate what a good handling car does. I'm not likely to track this car though so I'm more interested in road feel and comfort.
- The 505 HP as compared to 415 for the Porsche.
- The Porsche on the other hand will most likely retain better resale and is more exclusive.
I have wanted a Porsche Turbo car for 30 years....but in the end I decided the factors that were going into this car purchase made the Z06 a better choice for ME. I think everyone has to do the same.
Both are great cars....good luck in your decision!
Very insightful and interesting points. 
09-12-2006, 07:40 PM
#60
Originally Posted by 98Pacecar
I thought the new Z06 couldn't be THAT much different than my 04 Z06, but I have to confess that I was wrong. The new Z06 is truly an entirely different car. There's almost zero similarities between the two.