BLU-BY-U

Hi Ranger, I just noticed this post this morning. I've only got about 160 miles now and obviously nothing for me to really compare hardcore at the moment, but it is a vastly different feel than the 02 Z06. The much taller gearing, the tq band, a clutch that is VERY light in feel. For as broad as the tq band is, Chevy really created a quite docile feeling car off the line (from my limited times driving it).

I'm probably not going to venture to HRP for quite some time, maybe October, so the weather shoud have cooled off a bit and this 06 will be nice and broke in. I'm really taking it easy overall at the moment and I'm going to break this car in much more slowly than the old 02.

That will give me plenty of time to experiment around town, and I'm going to study your launch posts very closely. I look forward to that first official 1/4 pass so I can converse intelligently with you on the idiosyncrasies of launching this 427 monster.

ALMS21

VIR is the track....Virginia International Raceway in Danville, VA (very southern Virginia). I think he said 10/20-21

Notch

I'm not easily impressed, and I never used the word "really" with regard to "impressive engineering".

As for the cost issue, I disagree. The space shuttle is impressive engineering, and it's some of the most expensive you can get. The Pratt and Whitney F100 engine is very impressive engineering, and is VERY expensive too. The cost of these two engineering examples does not detract from the underlying engineering.

The locomotive and ship examples you cite just show that the weight issue is the key - I asked for a comparison in terms of weight versus the flat 6. You brought up the fact that turbos have been around for a while, and my point is that they were much heavier in the past.

Without Porsche's impressive engineering, the Turbo's engine would weigh far more than it does now.

EMINENT 1

This reminds me about my arguments with my roommate on his domestic car hating/sport bikes loving mind. Of course, this is like apples to meat argument.

His argument: for $10k you can do 10's..that's impressive?

I think, meh.. It's impressive for a 3000+lb car to do 7's, 8's, 9's & 10's.

I hate talking cars with him. He is so close minded, it's like speaking to a wall. Get off the crotch rocket already.


Here, I hate to admit, i'd agree with my friend. Same application, cheaper one wins. Who gives a F if it had 8 turbos on a .5 liter engine. If it costed more and didn't best the other by a wide margin, would you still think that's impressive?

I'd say.....stupid.

Notch

Yes, the engineering would still be impressive.

EMINENT 1

Well, time to engineer yourself a double quad turbo lawn mower motor.

glass slipper

I never attributed the word "really" to you, that's why it was in bold.
How convenient of you to leave out the pertinent part of my post. Here it is again: "One of the most important factors in engineering is cost. The LS7@505 HP is $12-14K while the 997tt@480 HP is >$25k (this cost is an estimate from a Porsche forum, anyone with an accurate number). The most impressive engineering is the design that does more with less cost. So I guess the LS7 impresses you twice as much." I wasn't talking about cost alone.

So without my post taken out of context, you're space shuttle/jet engine points are without merit. Is there another space shuttle or jet engine that does more for less cost? And I wouldn't be too impressed with winning any comparison with an engine from the 1920s...and a diesel one at that. In fact, I would be embarrassed to have them mentioned in the same sentence. That's like competing at the special Olyimpics with no handicap.

Every post you have written for the last 100 posts (that's as far as I cared to go) is about the Porsche and how great they are...every single one!! Don't you have anything else to add to this forum? Or are you that one-dimensional. And as someone asked before, why don't you fill out your profile? Maybe you own stock in Porsche or a dealership in Atlanta and that's why you want to remain anonymous. You don't want people to know the real reason behind your posts.

Don't get me wrong, as I've said before I'm impressed with both engines. I'm just more impressed with the LS7. Even the redline is higher, 7000 vs 6600 RPM. And that's with "old, antiquated" pushrods vs DOHC! And the LS7 gets better MPG even though it has more HP. Now that's impressive! I'm not asking you to put down the 997tt engine or say the LS7 is better, but a little balance would seem to be in order.

glass slipper

No, that's not engineering. It's an example of one of these: http://www.rube-goldberg.com/html/pencil_sharpener.htm

Rube Goldberg device: something way more complex, complicated, and costly than it needs to be to get the job done!

Notch

It would be too heavy.

Notch

I didn't say you did.

Yes, the Su-27 engine has far fewer parts, costs less to manufacturer, and produces much more thrust.

I don't think I've couched my posts in terms of how "great" they are.

You must still be smarting after completely fumbling the ball concerning the late apex discussion we had. (BTW, a series of posts that dealt just with handling characteristics - not anything to do with "greatness").

I post about Porsches because there are times when information posted here needs clarification. Just like the engine weight issue - a question was asked and I answered it. I opined that the engineering was impressive, and the next thing you know guys are coming out of their loafers. Strange...

Notch

No, that's gearing.

glass slipper

Then it is engineered better. So what about the space shuttle.


No, not smarting at all, just the smarter one. I still stand by my statements and there is plenty of proof to back them up. Can you late apex with the car? Sure, but even the Porsche loving magazines will say beware of late apexing. It's strong suit is early apexing and early on the power where it's rear weight bias can be exploited. You simply don't have the ability to understand or you chose to ignore facts. And it had everything to do with how "great" Porsches are to you, nobody can say the least thing negative about them even if it's true. I still don't understand why you got so bent out of shape about it, it's like the Porsche does everything perfect in your eyes. I'll be the first one to say don't early apex with a Corvette, it'll do it, but you have to be careful rolling on the throttle on corner exit. I just don't see that as a bad thing, just an acknowledgment of the characteristics of the car.

No, you post here as if this were a billboard for you to advertise. You don't miss a chance to make some kind of remark that quite frankly sounds like a commercial. It's like you have some kind of stake in Porsche that you're trying to protect. You can't let the Z06 get too much press even on the CF for fear of impacting your "business". Talk about strange!! And since the Porsche engine weight info came from you, I will wait for proof before accepting it. A simple "I got an email from Porsche" is not enough.

Yes, and choosing proper gearing is a part of engineering. But MPG also is a factor of engine efficiency. Thanks for saying GM has better engineering. When Porsche chose a small, DOHC, turbo engine, they gave up efficiency for those "35 LBS"...that's part of the engineering process, GM just chose better in this case. Compression ratio has an impact on efficiency and the LS7 has 11:1 where the 997tt has 9:1. The smaller engine requires more revs at light load to develop enough torque (and I don't want to hear about the full throttle torque at low RPM, you don't cruise at full throttle) to sustain a steady cruise and there are many more moving parts to the Porsche engine creating a less efficient engine due to more internal friction. These are facts that don't need any clarification. However, feel free to "advertise" the virtues of the Porsche some more.

ajindfw

LS7 motor is impressive without doubt and a testimonial that GM can and will push the envelope just like the companies whos bread and butter is "engineering" and 'sport". If GM put half as much passion, ingenuity and common sense into more platforms it would certainly shut up many detractors and probably make the company more successful.

Although I don't own a C6Z, it's nice to see American achievement.

gonzalezfj

I was referring to an event called the Fall Fling sponsored by Synergy Racing. It takes place Oct 21-22 at Virginia International Raceway near South Boston, VA.

You can Google both Synergy and VIR for full info. If you are interested in participating as a driver, I recommend you register soon. This event usually sells out.

Many of the denizens that hang out in the CF Autocross & Roadracing venue will be there with their Vettes. You can also count on seeing Vipers, Ferraris, a variety of Porsches, race-prepared Bimmers and maybe a Daytona Prototype or two.

Frank Gonzalez

Notch

No, it's a much hotter burning engine (higher IR source) and it consumes way more fuel.




You still don't get it.

I don't do "advertising"...

As for real world facts, I got 18-19 mpg driving in the city, and just over 26 mpg on the highway...at 80-90 mph.

Notch

Suit yourself. I don't post my personal e-mails, so why don't you just e-mail PAG and ask them yourself? I wonder what the chances are that you still wouldn't accept that as "proof"...

glass slipper

I don't know much about jet engines so I'll leave that for you to decide. Jet engines don't have anything to do with the discussion at hand.

And I feel the same about you. This is where I'm the smarter one and will say we'll have to agree to disagree. You can call it fumbling the football if you want, I call it walking away from a discussion with no resolution just like I did last time. It's America, believe what you want.

In what??? A Boxster, a Z06, a Cobalt, a Prius, who knows. You have nothing filled out in your profile even though you've been a member for over 4 years. So what's the secret? You aren't another one that owns a casino in Las Vegas that's afraid their family will be kidnapped if your identity is revealed are you?

Notch

Balance? Do I have to say something about the Vette every time I mention something about a Porsche? For example, if I say that I like the seats in the Porsche, do I have to also say I like the seats in the Vette?

glass slipper

No problem. This email was just sent:

Sirs,
I'm interested in knowing the weight of the engine in the 2007 997 TT. Please include the turbos, intercoolers, and all accesories as well as the flywheel.

V/R
Richard

I'll even post the response here or in a new thread if necessary.

godsvette

Hey, Notch I think Glass Slipper has won this debate, I would concede if I was you. By the way don't start talking about gas mileage, the Z06 has every supercar in the world beat in that cataogory. It is the only car of its kind that doesn't have the gas guzzler tax on it. Now that is impressive engineering.