bernrex

Nice, except those tail lights look UGLY

louieT

Looks are in the eyes of the beholder...

bernrex

Great news! Hope your sources are correct. We need a totally new Viper for '08.

I've a Ford Truck that will outpull the current Viper to say 60-70 MPH.

SW

Maybe that's because all you see are those taillights.

SW

my "old" Viper getting twin-turboed now...

PeterK

Well, I guess that would make Viper more exclusive than 911 then .
But honestly - 911 is a brand on its own. To compare sales numbers - we'd have to compare roadster-to-roadster. And to compare power-wise we'd have to do compare numbers for 911TT roadsters vs. number of vipers - since some people (including me) will never buy a vert.

micro

I've only seen a few Viper SRT10s on the road and they didn't strike me as ugly at all.

"Accompanying this latest generation of the Viper is the opportunity to select various options to customize the car, including the stone-white stripes made famous by the Viper GTS combined with various exterior colors, two wheel styles (a five-spoke and an H-pattern), and interior leather color combinations."

- Car & Driver November 2005

JimmyCrackcorn

Post some pics of that black camaro of yours if you can, that is the sickest car ever

DDSLT5

Who is doing the tt? RSI? Watch out for those Heffner car tail-lights disappearing into the distance!

Just yanking your chain! Enjoy your sweet ride!

Ken Lally

BWright is BWrong. After reading this long long thread, yours is the only post I feel the need to respond to.

Most Viper owners buy their cars as weekend play things, and really could care less about the daily comforts (cruise/NAV/etc.) and nanny controls offered in the Vette. We (I) am looking for a pure, thrilling, driving experience, and frankly , my '05 Viper is the closest thing I could find to my '68 vette that is a total blast to drive, and just as beautiful. The Viper was never meant to be a daily driver and appeal to the masses like the Corvette, so of course the demand will be lower. Most Viper guys have owened Vettes and many still do, very few of us rag on the Vettes, we love them and the heritage. The Z is simply awesome, it raises the bar, but for me who buys a car like this on pure passion, I want the best looking car with the best performance that I can afford and yes, I do want some exclusivity. The 911 has lost it's look, I cannot justify maint costs of a Ferrari (I did consider the 355).

The Viper is hardly dead, you need to be up on the latest, head over to the VCA and check out what's coming, you may be surprised. Or not.

Forgive any spelling or grammar as this is a quick post-

JimmyCrackcorn

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/sho...b=5&o=&fpart=1

rbarta

I agree in the respect that those luxuries are unnecessary. But when cruise/nannies add no weight and can be turned off, what is the point of not having them. Same with cupholders or a million other little things. If the Viper were saving weight (read : was lighter than the Z06) then keeping things out might make sense to me. Somehow Viper lost it's way, it is supposed to be the baddest beast (read : lots of HP and TQ which it has) and minimal (read : less stuff in order to achieve a lighter weight). Minimalist for for it's own sake isn't too appealing.

When you get more luxuries for less $ and lbs, that's saying a lot.

Ken Lally

Hey Rbarta, good point about the weight- the Viper needs a diet for sure, remember though it is now 3 years older than the Z. All those other things really are just distractions for me, would like satelite radio though I get what you are saying ..., the mission is still there however.....as you say "minimalist", and for me appeal exists, to each his own I guess. And hey, we do have a cupholder, just remove the ashtray

rbarta

Hey, I don't want you to think I don't like the Viper, I love it mostly because it is a convertible. (Though this is a non-minimalistic trait I reserve the right to contradict myself). Possibly (probably) the fastest convertible made. Even though now they have a coupe, it weighs more than the convertible.

Yes, it is an older car, so that gives it some manner of excuse, though it doesn't really need one. It is a fine car in its own right. However, it came in weighing more than the C5 Z06. And when I hear about what they are going to do to make the car better over the next 2 years all the talk is about more HP. We'll see if it can get some weight loss too but Viper guys are not too concerned over that. Though they are concerned that it might get computer nannies/cruise control/cup holder even if those things don't add any weight.

Yes, it is funny about the ashtray, like that's a necessity. Luckily it can be used as a cupholder, though you would never hear a Viper owner wanting one.

SW

Here you go..

Tom Steele

SW,

You ARE aware they make other colors aren't you?

robvuk

[QUOTE=SW]Here you go..


QUOTE]

Gotta be one of the nicest Camaro's I've ever seen. Even in 69. Brings back memories.

SW

Thanks, the guys at Performance Motorsports/Boost Logic are doing the build,they are located behind my office. They have built a few cars for me..

robvuk, thanks, look for it in the March issue of Popular Hotrodding..

SW

silverz06vette

I think I'm the delusional here, it says "man" as part of your screen name, but you would not show up to Road Atlanta last weekend to run with some C5 Z06s.

Are you scared to bring it to the big track?

look here

Good thing you didn't show, one viper owner I know says you are an embarrassment to all the cool viper owners.

Tom Steele

Ah, I guess you are aware that they make other colors. You just have a LOT of cool cars...

Bwright

Uh-huh.

Forgive me but I have been a professional auto analyst for decades and this kind of uninformed opinion quite frankly, no offense meant at all, is a lot like listening to someone go on at length about the reality of Santa Claus.

Over the years I have heard this exact same argument from, among others, owners of the Subaru SVX, Mitsubishi 3000GT/Dodge Stealth, Mazda RX-7, Toyota Supra, Acura NSX, BMW 8-Series, Porsche 928, Porsche 968, 300 ZX etc. who all absolutely assured me that their cars were here to stay despite painfully simple mathematical sales data that showed that their cars could no longer continue as a going concern. Talon and Prowler owners who, preoccupied with the supposedly unassailable security of their car, failed to notice the factors which would soon ultimately kill the parent companies (Eagle and Plymouth) never mind the individual cars. Like you, they were so blinded by their infatuation with their rides that they began to deny reality’s very existence. My training and the repeated real world (see examples above) proofs I routinely see leave me unable to comprehend how supposedly rational and intelligent people can so firmly believe that single vehicles, whose sales numbers are often a rounding error at best, will transcend all facts and survive because, as we all well know, the modern auto business is all about programs incurring significant annual losses to please small groups of fanatical owners.

Some unpleasant but simple facts, building cars is a business. If that business fails to consistently generate a profit that can sustain its employees/shareholder then that business is cancelled. It really is that simple. (See Oldsmobile/VW Phaeton for most recent examples).

Viper sales have declined by double digits every single year since the introduction of the third generation car. That’s not supposition, it is a matter of fact. Go check DCX’s own website for the details. That kind of sales decline can only be entertained for so long. You think DCX took pride in having to shut down CAAP when the nationwide supply of unwanted Vipers hit an unsustainable 200 days? You think they enjoyed paying idle workers? You think they sat around patting themselves on the back going, "Good job guys! Nobody’s buying it. Success! Now we are truly EXCLUSIVE! Beers for everyone!" Is that what you think?

The plant shutdown was only the first grim sign. Here’s how the game will play out. Chrysler will have to put the Firepower into production to fill excess line capacity at CAAP. They have no choice because they can’t give Vipers away even with discounts now hovering between a staggering $10-15K (see Ebay). Unfortunately, the Firepower is expected to play in the Corvette’s price bracket. In fifty plus years, no car has survived there to this day. Much like the Crossfire (soon), after a splashy debut the Firepower’s sales numbers will tank and the vehicle will be killed. Dodge will then be back to square one with unsustainable Viper sales numbers and CAAP workers whose health care costs will have climbed by 15% annually in the interim. 15%. All the while, the Asian automakers who have been focused on mainstream products and who have now compressed the market share of what used to be known as the Big Three to a new and sobering reality, will in effect force a come to Jesus moment. Then the Viper will join the 928, 8-Series etc. in the automotive dustbin.

You may not be able to comprehend any of this because your passion for your car blinds you to even the simplest facts but trust me when I tell you that Santa will not be coming along with a check to pay CAAP’s bills. Only sales will settle that invoice and the Viper’s current sales numbers as evidenced by the forced shutdown are not paying the bill.

Oh, and the next time you tell me about Viper owners take on “creature comforts” make sure you have read Dodge Viper by Dan Carney. There is an interesting section on the number of owners (none) of the ACR who elected to do without the optional creature comforts.

On nannies, two things, check the insurance stats on both the Viper’s crash rate and the efficacy of so called nannies before you speak. I wrote something about both of these things on the Viper site: http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/sho...rue#Post499593 Looks like, more than anyone, Viper drivers need these so called "nanny" devices.

Believe it or not I actually like the concept of the Viper as an American supercar standing side-by-side with the Z06 and Ford GT. But I hold no delusions whatsoever about the coldly efficient way the market treats all those who do not make money. GM almost cancelled the profitable Corvette. If financially cornered you think the shot callers at Daimler (not Chrysler anymore) will have to think twice about canceling a money-losing 1,500 unit a year Dodge?