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Old 10-15-2004, 06:13 PM   #1
mikeyc6
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Default Found Fram & possibly K&N air filters that fit

After a little searching, I found the Fram air filter that fits in the C6. The Fram CA8606 seems to fit perfectly. It's a little more snug than the stock filters as the filter bows up just slightly while at rest. It pops down and fits nice and snug though once you put it in place and you pop the clips in place. I got the Frams just because the stock filters look incredibly restrictive. If you put a 60 watt drop light behind the stock filters, you see almost no light through there. Do the same thing with the Fram filters and it diffuses through nicely. I may check into getting the Fram "AirHog" version which is basically like the K&N. K&N part number is 33-2136 BTW, but I haven't tried the K&N to see how well it fits considering the Fram is just a litttle snug.

Now... do we have any filter experts on here? I managed to match the size, but do you think air filters are really that different other than size? I suppose some could be designed to different specs, letting a different particle size through, but... I think you'd face that same problem with different filter media like oiled cotton versus paper. What do you think? Do you think these filters should be OK because they fit? My guess is that all air filters from a particular brand/line like K&N or Fram "extra guard" probably have the same filter media and they just vary the size for different models.

Thoughts?

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:43 PM   #2
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I just noticed that the folds/pleats in the Fram filter run the opposite way compared to the stock filter. The stock filter folds run from side to side (looking at the filter when it is installed) and the Fram folds run front to back. Don't know if that affects the air flow dynamics or not...

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:47 PM   #3
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Read this carefully.

http://knfilters.com/facts.htm

These people have been around for over 40 years or so.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedG
Read this carefully.

http://knfilters.com/facts.htm

These people have been around for over 40 years or so.
I actually read that before I went looking for new filters. Excellent info, but it doesn't directly address my questions. The pleats on the stock filter are so dense and so tightly folded that light only gets through the filter at the edge (apex) of the folds. This can't be good for air flow. I plan to try them both at the drag strip tomorrow (weather permitting) so we'll see.

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:14 PM   #5
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does that K&N filter say its for the C6. to me it looks like the in take is similar to the C5....is it?


on the K&N site the only product hey say they have is the oil filter for the C6



the product application for 332136 is

2004 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2004 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2004 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2004 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2004 DODGE INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2003 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2003 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2003 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2003 CHRYSLER INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2003 CHRYSLER INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2003 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2003 DODGE INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2002 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2002 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2002 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2002 CHRYSLER INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2002 CHRYSLER INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2002 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2002 DODGE INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2001 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2001 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2001 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.2L V6 F/I - All
2001 CHRYSLER LHS 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2001 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2001 DODGE INTREPID 3.2L V6 F/I - All
2001 DODGE INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2000 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2000 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2000 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.2L V6 F/I - All
2000 CHRYSLER LHS 3.5L V6 F/I - All
2000 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
2000 DODGE INTREPID 3.2L V6 F/I - All
2000 DODGE INTREPID 3.5L V6 F/I - All
1999 CHRYSLER 300M 3.5L V6 F/I - All
1999 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
1999 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.2L V6 F/I - All
1999 CHRYSLER LHS 3.5L V6 F/I - All
1999 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
1999 DODGE INTREPID 3.2L V6 F/I - All
1998 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 2.7L V6 F/I - All
1998 CHRYSLER CONCORDE 3.2L V6 F/I - All
1998 DODGE INTREPID 2.7L V6 F/I - All
1998 DODGE INTREPID 3.2L V6 F/I - All
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Last edited by M_C7; 10-15-2004 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:16 PM   #6
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yeah ive been looking for a pair of K&N's too .

has anyones dealer ever given them any problems over this? i know they are perfectly safe but i put one in my 350z and my dealer had a hissy fit saying that the oil messed up the MAF sensor in one of thier maximas.


ive always had good expierence with them. so plese post a part # once you guys run across a perfect fit!
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
I actually read that before I went looking for new filters. Excellent info, but it doesn't directly address my questions. The pleats on the stock filter are so dense and so tightly folded that light only gets through the filter at the edge (apex) of the folds. This can't be good for air flow. I plan to try them both at the drag strip tomorrow (weather permitting) so we'll see.

Mike
The reason there are so many pleats is to get surface area. The more the better, it allows for a finer labyrinth in the media, hence finer particles can be trapped. Light going through a filter would scare me with a paper filter, that would mean dirt has a straight path through. An oiled filter is different.
I would think that pleat direction would make no difference, One way or another the air is going to have to make some bends in its travel. There is usually low pressure (unless you are going really, really fast) on the inboard side of the filter, and very turbulent air on the outboard side. So the direction of the pleats should make no difference. IMHO
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_C6
yeah ive been looking for a pair of K&N's too .

has anyones dealer ever given them any problems over this? i know they are perfectly safe but i put one in my 350z and my dealer had a hissy fit saying that the oil messed up the MAF sensor in one of thier maximas.


ive always had good expierence with them. so plese post a part # once you guys run across a perfect fit!
I believe the supercharged Grand Ams came with K&Ns, I could be mistaken.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
After a little searching, I found the Fram air filter that fits in the C6. The Fram CA8606 seems to fit perfectly. It's a little more snug than the stock filters as the filter bows up just slightly while at rest. It pops down and fits nice and snug though once you put it in place and you pop the clips in place. I got the Frams just because the stock filters look incredibly restrictive. If you put a 60 watt drop light behind the stock filters, you see almost no light through there. Do the same thing with the Fram filters and it diffuses through nicely. I may check into getting the Fram "AirHog" version which is basically like the K&N. K&N part number is 33-2136 BTW, but I haven't tried the K&N to see how well it fits considering the Fram is just a litttle snug.

Now... do we have any filter experts on here? I managed to match the size, but do you think air filters are really that different other than size? I suppose some could be designed to different specs, letting a different particle size through, but... I think you'd face that same problem with different filter media like oiled cotton versus paper. What do you think? Do you think these filters should be OK because they fit? My guess is that all air filters from a particular brand/line like K&N or Fram "extra guard" probably have the same filter media and they just vary the size for different models.

Thoughts?

Mike
flow varies greatly from brand to brand. Vizards' tests showed Motorcraft to be best of pleated paper. Fram sucked. Drag test vs. Motorcraft would be interesting.
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Old 10-15-2004, 07:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_C6
does that K&N filter say its for the C6. to me it looks like the in take is similar to the C5....is it?
No. K&N claims they do not have a filter for the C6 yet, which is true. I found one that fits by searching using their search tool to search by filter dimensions. The 33-2136 is K&N's only filter that is the proper dimensions. I think they use the same filter media on all their filters and I don't think they vary the "pleat count" either, so I don't know why the 33-2136 wouldn't work.

The C6 uses two 7 x 9.625 inch filters whereas the C5 used a single 8x16 filter. They are roughly the same surface area, the C6 is just broken into two smaller filters.

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:21 PM   #11
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Click the image to open in full size.

Here's the stock versus the Fram. I took both shots with the exact same exposure (you can see that the lamp and other stuff around the filter is exposed the same). The lamp is a 60 watt bulb. I know that light isn't a perfect indicator of how much air will flow through nor is it a good indicator of how much dust it will trap. The Fram filter material is white whereas the stock filter material is almost black, so the Fram filter material itself may be a bit translucent. I also put both filters over a vent in the house and did a crude measure of how much air each one was passing (using small paper streamers) and I can tell you that the Fram was passing a lot more air than the stocker!

I don't know that we can presume that the Fram also passes more dirt. The pleats on the stocker are so densely packed together that I doubt the pleats themselves add a lot to the surface area of the filter. It's not that the stocker has more pleats. It doesn't. They are just so stuck together and so dense that each pleat looks like two pieces of cardboard glued together. On the Fram, they have enough space in there that I can see how the pleats add up to more surface area on the Fram.

Mike

Last edited by mikeyc6; 10-15-2004 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
No. K&N claims they do not have a filter for the C6 yet, which is true. I found one that fits by searching using their search tool to search by filter dimensions. The 33-2136 is K&N's only filter that is the proper dimensions. I think they use the same filter media on all their filters and I don't think they vary the "pleat count" either, so I don't know why the 33-2136 wouldn't work.

The C6 uses two 7 x 9.625 inch filters whereas the C5 used a single 8x16 filter. They are roughly the same surface area, the C6 is just broken into two smaller filters.

Mike

oh ok good info

now even if that part # doesnt fit exactly they do have spacers i had to use these foam spacers on my Z to make it fit just right
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:45 PM   #13
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What do you mean almost black? It is black...
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Old 10-15-2004, 09:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG
What do you mean almost black? It is black...
Not mine. The paper on my stock filters is a dark bluish gray. I said "almost black" because it is a very dark color. Definitely bluish though.

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:10 PM   #15
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when were comparing these filters are we talking about the oil ones versus the oiled or the dry ones?
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_C6
when were comparing these filters are we talking about the oil ones versus the oiled or the dry ones?
In this thread, the only thing I'm comparing is the stock paper filter to a Fram paper filter. I only mention the oiled ones (Fram AirHog and K&N) because I plan to try one or the other eventually. The Fram is just an intermediate measure to free up some air for me at the track tomorrow.

Mike
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:51 PM
 
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