How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue
06-28-2004, 11:52 AM
#41
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (Jinx)
I'd rather have a key in the ignition than this afterthought.
Scissors: Leaving it in neutral places less wear on the tranny than leaving it in reverse. For parking, I use the parking brake. I think that's what it's for.
Scissors: Leaving it in neutral places less wear on the tranny than leaving it in reverse. For parking, I use the parking brake. I think that's what it's for.
06-28-2004, 07:39 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (Scissors)
A car with a parking brake set is easier to move than a car with the parking brake set and the transmission in gear. The decision on whether or not to put the transmission in gear a safety issue.
Keyless operation is supposed to be convenient. A dead battery is not convenient. This is IMHO a design flaw.
Honestly, couldn't the car go to sleep if the key isn't in the car? That's a better tradeoff.
Couldn't the car have a switch instead of a button? That's a better tradeoff.
Corvette is my only car, so I'll have little trouble adapting to whatever idiosyncracies the car has, but jeez, there should be more smarts put into a "smart" feature.
.Jinx
06-28-2004, 07:47 PM
#43
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (Jinx)
Personally, I'd rather have a DIC-configurable setting where various amounts of time, including infinite until shifted into reverse, were available.
06-28-2004, 08:38 PM
#44
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Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (Scissors)
Personally, I'd rather have a DIC-configurable setting where various amounts of time, including infinite until shifted into reverse, were available.
06-28-2004, 08:45 PM
#45
Safety Car
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame.
I'm sorry but this is an engineering screw up. Putting the car into reverse is no big deal. But having the battery drain is a huge deal. So your wifey forgets or didn't know because she didn't see some indoctrination video and you didn't remember to annoy her with special training on how to park the new car and you get to face a dead battery in the morning, Oh wonderful. Kludged up engineering pure and simple. It should have been built so that you purposely have to place it into accessory mode. What is this some sort of sequential ignition? Someone mentioned a sleep mode which I think I have on my SS Silverado. Good thing I am getting an A4.
06-28-2004, 09:37 PM
#46
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Lazerwolfe)
It's not *That* bad guys. It's similar to putting an automatic in park in order to take your key out. But yeah, it does have a big penalty in the event you do screw up, ASSUMING there's no audible warning, which no one has said yet.
[Modified by Curtis A. Franz, 6:38 PM 6/28/2004]
06-28-2004, 11:26 PM
#47
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Curtis A. Franz)
Mr. abrimberry hit it right on the spot when he posted this in the beginning of this thread. Here is his quote in case you missed it:
"I typically leave my car in 1st gear. Especially if my car is parked uphill. I put my car in reverse when parked facing downhill. This has been important for me because the parking brake on my C5s has performed less than desired. "
This is the correct procedure to use on ANY manual transmission car, regardless if the parking brake is working or not. Think about it, it is logical and makes sense.... GM, are you listening, this is a saftey flaw!
-Qbert
"I typically leave my car in 1st gear. Especially if my car is parked uphill. I put my car in reverse when parked facing downhill. This has been important for me because the parking brake on my C5s has performed less than desired. "
This is the correct procedure to use on ANY manual transmission car, regardless if the parking brake is working or not. Think about it, it is logical and makes sense.... GM, are you listening, this is a saftey flaw!
-Qbert
06-29-2004, 01:03 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Qbert)
I'd kinda like to hear an explanation of the reasoning behind this one before I start judging it. That said, it does sound like a bad idea, and yet not so bad that I would even care. Let's pretend its in ACC mode all night: the radio wouldn't be on, who walks away from their car and not notice that the radio is on? the internal lights should all be off, just like on any car ever, as long as the doors are all closed, and again who leaves their doors open all night? The point is that anything, except the clock maybe, that was left on you'd notice and would almost certainly put the thing in reverse before just walking off with you car still making all sorts of noises and lights. On top of all this there will probably STILL be some sort of warning chime or light or message every time you get out of the car.
Not having your parking brake adjusted and working correctly is much more dangerous than leaving the car in reverse all the time. And if that's not the purpose of the parking brake then why is it called a parking brake?
Not having your parking brake adjusted and working correctly is much more dangerous than leaving the car in reverse all the time. And if that's not the purpose of the parking brake then why is it called a parking brake?
06-29-2004, 01:52 AM
#49
Drifting
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (rambler323)
Although this still wouldn't prevent me from buying one... here is one issue with this 'resolution'...
For anyone that likes to trailer their cars... Leaving them in GEAR is a BIG NO-NO!!! The last thing you want is your car 'potentially' bouncing around (slightly) moving, shaking etc... and the trans just vibrating away inside w/ nothing turning. (IMO)... I also leave my cars in Neutral... and set the emergency brake...
For anyone that likes to trailer their cars... Leaving them in GEAR is a BIG NO-NO!!! The last thing you want is your car 'potentially' bouncing around (slightly) moving, shaking etc... and the trans just vibrating away inside w/ nothing turning. (IMO)... I also leave my cars in Neutral... and set the emergency brake...
06-29-2004, 05:07 AM
#50
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Matt Gruber)
whatever happened to "sleep mode" where after 10 minutes with no activity it shuts off?
watch for it on the c7
watch for it on the c7
Here's a problem I forsee, more af an annoyance, really. You park the car, open the door and notice the radio is still on (oops, forgot to put it in reverse), so you have to START the car again to get it in reverse. The key on a C5 has to be in the "run" position for you to be able to shift into reverse. It will probably be the same for the C6. whenever I park, first I kill the car, then yank the brake, then check to make sure it's in gear.
06-29-2004, 06:46 AM
#51
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Yibbutkeen)
What is the big deal? C4s all had this.
Let me clarify a bit. In order to remove the key, in both my 87 4+3 and my 90 ZR1, the car had to be in reverse. I don't know if it was a battery issue or not, but it really wasn't a big deal.
Let me clarify a bit. In order to remove the key, in both my 87 4+3 and my 90 ZR1, the car had to be in reverse. I don't know if it was a battery issue or not, but it really wasn't a big deal.
What kind of ZR-1 did you have? I had a 90 ZR-1 and NEVER had to put it in reverse. I have a 90 L98 now, 6 speed and NEVER have to put it in reverse.
Where did this "old wives' tale about putting the trans in reverse to save the gears come from, anyway. This is bogus. Just logic will tell you that.
06-29-2004, 08:10 AM
#52
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Skippy Stone)
I think there are a lot of "old wives' tales" in this post.
The recommendation to put the transmission in reverse is probably because the reverse ratio is the lowest (highest numerically) in the gearbox, and hence provides the most resistance to movement of the vehicle.
Putting the car in first normally and in reverse when facing downhill makes no sense, they are almost equally effective.
I don't believe parking the car in neutral saves any "wear" on the transmission.... explain that one to me.
I don't believe that putting a car in gear while being trailered can cause damage due to "jiggling" of the gears with no lube.
Most impotatnt of all... does anyone really know the full functionality of the C6? I am sure the engineers are as smart and as obsessive compulsive as we are, and they have thought through all of the ramifications of this situation.
L
The recommendation to put the transmission in reverse is probably because the reverse ratio is the lowest (highest numerically) in the gearbox, and hence provides the most resistance to movement of the vehicle.
Putting the car in first normally and in reverse when facing downhill makes no sense, they are almost equally effective.
I don't believe parking the car in neutral saves any "wear" on the transmission.... explain that one to me.
I don't believe that putting a car in gear while being trailered can cause damage due to "jiggling" of the gears with no lube.
Most impotatnt of all... does anyone really know the full functionality of the C6? I am sure the engineers are as smart and as obsessive compulsive as we are, and they have thought through all of the ramifications of this situation.
L
06-29-2004, 08:56 AM
#53
Team Owner
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (tipcapman)
Most impotatnt of all... does anyone really know the full functionality of the C6? I am sure the engineers are as smart and as obsessive compulsive as we are, and they have thought through all of the ramifications of this situation
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
06-29-2004, 09:32 AM
#54
Race Director
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (jschindler)
well, they have to include flaws, otherwise, why buy a new car?(why i still drive 32-43 year old vettes, the flaws were fixed by me years ago)
.
tedG
i suspect the A4 will need to be put in Park.
.
tedG
i suspect the A4 will need to be put in Park.
06-29-2004, 10:56 AM
#55
Le Mans Master
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (jschindler)
Let's talk about these engineers for a minute..........
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
I think we will hear more details on the 6-speed issue, but not perhaps until we see an owners manual.
[Modified by C5 StockSwap, 9:57 AM 6/29/2004]
06-29-2004, 11:01 AM
#56
Team Owner
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (C5 StockSwap)
Let's talk about these engineers for a minute..........
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
Jim, I agree with your comments to a great extent, but I also believe that Dave Hill having the C6 from start to finish will result in a much more solid car than its predecessor. Dave brings the Cadillac mentality to Corvette, and you can already see his influence in the fit and finish of the C6. Just one slam of the C6 door (even on a vert with top down) and you will be amazed at how solid this thing is. Dave's expectations and experience is to produce a much classier product.
I think we will hear more details on the 6-speed issue, but not perhaps until we see an owners manual.
[Modified by C5 StockSwap, 9:57 AM 6/29/2004]
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
Jim, I agree with your comments to a great extent, but I also believe that Dave Hill having the C6 from start to finish will result in a much more solid car than its predecessor. Dave brings the Cadillac mentality to Corvette, and you can already see his influence in the fit and finish of the C6. Just one slam of the C6 door (even on a vert with top down) and you will be amazed at how solid this thing is. Dave's expectations and experience is to produce a much classier product.
I think we will hear more details on the 6-speed issue, but not perhaps until we see an owners manual.
[Modified by C5 StockSwap, 9:57 AM 6/29/2004]
06-29-2004, 11:24 AM
#57
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Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (jschindler)
Most impotatnt of all... does anyone really know the full functionality of the C6? I am sure the engineers are as smart and as obsessive compulsive as we are, and they have thought through all of the ramifications of this situation
Let's talk about these engineers for a minute..........
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
Let's talk about these engineers for a minute..........
1) column lock
2) fuel guage
3) rocking seat
4) oil consumption ('01's)
5) differential oil leak
6) weak synchros
These are just a few of the problems on C5's that are well documented, and for the most part were never fixed during the 7 year run of the C5's (the oil consumption was fixed, but I bring it up because it was actually "introduced" 4 years into the C5 run. And for the record, GM is going back to a similar ring design on the LS2 that caused this problem in '01).
Well, as an engineer myself I guess it was a knee jerk reaction to defend my counterparts at GM. I deal in a simpler product, and we have had our issues. Engineers make mistakes, managers may or may not fund production fixes or retrofits, regulatory agencies impose unnecessary requirements, etc. We're always under pressure to design products that are less expensive to produce, sometimes to the detriment of other attributes. I'm not making excuses, in fact I share your concern as I have been particulary disappointed by the road noise problem in the C5 (which they have addressed in the C6.)
We as Americans have to reprogram ourselves to design and manufacture the best products in the world. I assume GM is endeavoring to bring their products to that standard, and hopefully it is not only lip service, but includes the resources necessary to make it happen.
On the positive side, I believe the C5 is a very high quality product, and although it could be improved, certainly is an impressive machine.
L
06-29-2004, 11:34 AM
#58
☠☣☢ Semper Ebrius ☢☣☠
Re: How to get offical answer about the 6-speed issue (Skippy Stone)
I think some people are confusing RAP with ACC.
06-29-2004, 11:46 AM
#59
Le Mans Master
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (TedG)
I'm sorry but this is an engineering screw up. Putting the car into reverse is no big deal. But having the battery drain is a huge deal. So your wifey forgets or didn't know because she didn't see some indoctrination video and you didn't remember to annoy her with special training on how to park the new car and you get to face a dead battery in the morning, Oh wonderful. Kludged up engineering pure and simple. It should have been built so that you purposely have to place it into accessory mode. What is this some sort of sequential ignition? Someone mentioned a sleep mode which I think I have on my SS Silverado. Good thing I am getting an A4.
Keyslots in the Steering column with mechanical column locks are pretty well fool proof after all the years of use to perfect them.
Moving the key slot to the dash was a gimmick that lead to customer dissatisfaction, inconvenience, and harm with unreliable electronic column locks.
Now more gimmickry, push putton start, produces more reason for concern.
06-29-2004, 12:14 PM
#60
Safety Car
Re: Lame. Lame lame lame lame lame. (wwashing)
Seems to me like it would be easier to just have an accessory mode button along with the start button. Push the button with the engine off and your in accessory mode. Push it again accessory shuts off. Push it with the engine running and the engine shuts off and you go to accessory mode. Does anyone see a flaw with that concept? Seems like it would be simple in use and I would not tthink the cost of the extra button would be much more than the stuff involved in talking to the tranny to determine when it should be in accessory. Im also an engineer, but think boat or train, not really smart guy. At any rate I deal with a lot of systems in my line of work and have a great respect for the KISS concept.