Making C6 great
05-05-2004, 11:13 PM
#2
Racer
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Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
Wow, i dont want to battle or challenge any Cx's faithfull.........Im a combat vet f16 with the priveligde of working on corvettes........i take and do both of my jobs with passion..........i have been over the heartland of iraq many times...........GM is under attack by competition which is fierce.......corvette is a small segment but the survival of Corvette is tied into the survival of GM..........any of you out there that think GM cant go under is out of touch........i have put a lot of work and passion into C6 to make it perform.......low drag fast good cooling flow..........just like we are in a battle in Iraq..........for freedom..........im passionate about my jobs hope if you were offended you can understand
05-05-2004, 11:30 PM
#3
Team Owner
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
I understand that you are under some un-needed pressure from many forum members ... and that should not be what is happening .. it looked as if all 60,000 of the other members began to turn on you ... but it is not your fault in any way that people do not like some of the C6 design elements.
If you do not mind ... I have a few question that you may or may not be able/allowed to answer ...
1) What sort of pricing can we expect on the car? (if you dont know, do you know when it will be public?)
2) Are the HID's self-leveling?
3) Is their any place that GM will be bringing the C6's for the public to see again (like c5 b-day bash)?
Thanks ...
If you do not mind ... I have a few question that you may or may not be able/allowed to answer ...
1) What sort of pricing can we expect on the car? (if you dont know, do you know when it will be public?)
2) Are the HID's self-leveling?
3) Is their any place that GM will be bringing the C6's for the public to see again (like c5 b-day bash)?
Thanks ...
05-05-2004, 11:52 PM
#4
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Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
Wow, i dont want to battle or challenge any Cx's faithfull.........Im a combat vet f16 with the priveligde of working on corvettes........i take and do both of my jobs with passion..........i have been over the heartland of iraq many times...........GM is under attack by competition which is fierce.......corvette is a small segment but the survival of Corvette is tied into the survival of GM..........any of you out there that think GM cant go under is out of touch........i have put a lot of work and passion into C6 to make it perform.......low drag fast good cooling flow..........just like we are in a battle in Iraq..........for freedom..........im passionate about my jobs hope if you were offended you can understand
Passion, Power and precision....Whoever in the PR department of Chevrolet thought of this must have read the minds of every Corvette owner.
We ALL have Passion for Corvette. It truly runs deep.
We ALL dream of more POWER...there is never enough
Precision is a benchmark Corvette engineers, designers, and owners have come to expect.
When the dust settles, We ALL hope to have a C6 Corvette that pleases most everyone....
05-06-2004, 12:05 AM
#5
Drifting
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
I for one appreciate your efforts. You know how it goes KB, you can get 99 things right and 1 wrong and it's as if the end result is a piece of s..t. I think the C6 is going to be a smashing success, and its people like you that we will salute. Keep the faith!!
05-06-2004, 12:40 AM
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Re: Making C6 great (AP)
wow sir.......thanks for your questions.......as an engineer i cant answer them.............but i can try to find answers for you sir
05-06-2004, 12:47 AM
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Re: Making C6 great (jim482)
wow jim,
Im astounded by the people that cant appreciate the hundreds of hours over again to make the C6........i dont get it...........the numbers speak for them selves.........people dont want americans to succeed??
Im astounded by the people that cant appreciate the hundreds of hours over again to make the C6........i dont get it...........the numbers speak for them selves.........people dont want americans to succeed??
05-06-2004, 02:54 AM
#9
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Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
I'm going to try and keep this constructive - I think you have an awesome car with the C6, BUT....
While I can appreciate the effort that went into designing good airflow into C6, in spite of the requirement to mount a front plate, we really, really, REALLY need a solution that doesn't involve putting holes in the fascia. The dealers will F-k that up 5 times out of 10 - trust me! I'll take the shoebox, but PLEASE - design an L-bracket that puts the mounting points inside the grille. You can surely design brackets that will allow a snap on frame, with some cross-bracing inside for aero stabilty.
(btw, I won't be installing the FP, even though it's required here in CA - our local police chief had his C5 at our show this weekend, and I noted with interest that he didn't have a front plate, so I figure I've got some leverage....)
OR, a (distant) second choice - look at what Porsche is doing with their front fascias - there are some small body-color "dimples" that (almost) conceal the mounting points.
Just don't rely on the dealers to get it right - they won't!
Yr faithful servant.... (j/k)
While I can appreciate the effort that went into designing good airflow into C6, in spite of the requirement to mount a front plate, we really, really, REALLY need a solution that doesn't involve putting holes in the fascia. The dealers will F-k that up 5 times out of 10 - trust me! I'll take the shoebox, but PLEASE - design an L-bracket that puts the mounting points inside the grille. You can surely design brackets that will allow a snap on frame, with some cross-bracing inside for aero stabilty.
(btw, I won't be installing the FP, even though it's required here in CA - our local police chief had his C5 at our show this weekend, and I noted with interest that he didn't have a front plate, so I figure I've got some leverage....)
OR, a (distant) second choice - look at what Porsche is doing with their front fascias - there are some small body-color "dimples" that (almost) conceal the mounting points.
Just don't rely on the dealers to get it right - they won't!
Yr faithful servant.... (j/k)
05-06-2004, 02:56 AM
#10
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
I do feel sorry for you. You look at these posts, you look at the votes from the polls and the following is what you get out them:
I now do believe that you didn't see how ugly that plate mount is. Very sad. I really wish you happier days ahead.
[Modified by LongTimer, 7:59 AM 5/6/2004]
...people dont want americans to succeed??
[Modified by LongTimer, 7:59 AM 5/6/2004]
05-06-2004, 03:59 AM
#11
Re: Making C6 great (SamsBud)
I would have preferred a compromise on the air flow...a little less in order to
have a better looking front end. Every time I see the front end I just don't
get it; I'm sorry. Of course, I'm not too fond of the C5's front end either, so
I guess I'll learn to live with the C6's too. It just seems like a better job could
have been done on that part of the car. My $.01...
have a better looking front end. Every time I see the front end I just don't
get it; I'm sorry. Of course, I'm not too fond of the C5's front end either, so
I guess I'll learn to live with the C6's too. It just seems like a better job could
have been done on that part of the car. My $.01...
05-06-2004, 06:50 AM
#12
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Re: Making C6 great (SamsBud)
THE DEALERS WILL NOT SCREW UP INSTALLATION OF THE LICENSE PLATE MOUNT. IF THEY DO, THEY WILL HAVE TO ORDER A WHOLE NEW FRONT END FOR THE CAR AND PAY FOR IT AND THEY SURE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. I WORK FOR A DEALERSHIP (SALES) AND WE ARE NOT NEARLY AS BAD AS MOST OF THE GUYS HERE LIKE TO IMPLY. I TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN MY VETTE AND THE TECHS IN OUR SHOP DO LIKEWISE. THAT SAID, I WILL NOT DRILL HOLES IN THE FRONT OF MY VETTE. WILL KEEP MY C5 TILL THE O6 COMES OUT AND HOPE THEY FIX THE SMALL THINGS THAT I DO NOT CARE FOR. GREAT CAR BUT I CAN WAIT A YEAR. THEN I CAN BUY AT INVOICE 
05-06-2004, 08:59 AM
#13
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Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
Ask for some understanding
BUT.........
Do not let pride cross into Ego. It is one thing to have pride about something that you have created and other to have an ego about it.
Also if you are asking for understanding it comes with a price. You cannot expect people to have understanding with you when you are not willing or able to have understanding with them.
There is one word that describes the name Corvette and that is passion. With this passion comes the good and the bad. The best way to deal with it is the same way you deal with life try not to take it personnal.
05-06-2004, 09:39 AM
#14
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Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
KBAB,
I don't presume to speak for everyone - and I don't mean to pile on - but this place is about discussion - so here are my 2 cents worth:
I think most people here understand that it takes a lot of effort to implement a design, and that there are a lot of factors to consider.
I don't think anyone can criticize your ability, your hard work, your military service (which isn't really relevant here), or your devotion. Part of what happened here before is that this is a tough crowd. We are pretty much crazy about our car. We want it to be perfect - but - everyone has a different idea about what perfect is.
Design is about trade-offs. There are objecive goals to achieve. Some are engineering goals - like Cd, air flow, or HP. Some are regulatory goals - like crash standards, emissions, or provisions for a license plate. Some of these goals compete with one another. But a product like a Corvette also has some subjective goals to achieve - for instance - it has to look like a Corvette, and it has to look good.
You became a lightning rod for some of the frustration because of your cocky, no b.s. attitude. I have no problem with cockiness, but you took some of the criticism personally (and it isn't personal), and you forgot that there are a lot of other smart people on this forum. Most of us aren't idiots, and don't want to move to another state, or drive a *** car - which were your suggested solutions.
I think the license plate bracket design sucks - in plain English. From the point of view of function, aesthetics, and installation. I believe the "problem" started at the conceptual design stage - on the drawing board - before you ever saw the car in the wind tunnel.
If every artsy idea that came off a drawing board was road worthy, we'd all be driving the Stingray III.
If the majority of the states require a front license plate, then a good design must include that requirement in the design criteria. Just like the rear air foil had to be designed with crash zone requirements in mind, as you explained a while ago.
The original design contemplated that the car would be a front and bottom breather - for whatever reasons - and the performance goals require certain air flow. That's fine. The problem is that the car needs to take air in from the front - and - a front license plate is a requirement. Why wasn't the front license plate incorporated into the original concept? The requirement couldn't have been news to anybody.
Now you've got a car that was tested and baselined without a front license plate, and Corvette customers in the majority of states are required to put an (unsightly) obstruction right in the flow path - and - there isn't even a foolproof method of installing it. I don't know everything, but I call that bad design.
For forum purposes, the design is what it is. We just want to know why, and what can be done about it. I doubt that it will stop too many people from buying an otherwise awesome car.
I'll close my diatribe by saying a couple of people have said that you're a good guy, and I believe them. You are part of the Corvette family, and just like any other family - we're going to have our differences. When all the shouting is over - we're all here for the same reason.
Peace
I don't presume to speak for everyone - and I don't mean to pile on - but this place is about discussion - so here are my 2 cents worth:
I think most people here understand that it takes a lot of effort to implement a design, and that there are a lot of factors to consider.
I don't think anyone can criticize your ability, your hard work, your military service (which isn't really relevant here), or your devotion. Part of what happened here before is that this is a tough crowd. We are pretty much crazy about our car. We want it to be perfect - but - everyone has a different idea about what perfect is.
Design is about trade-offs. There are objecive goals to achieve. Some are engineering goals - like Cd, air flow, or HP. Some are regulatory goals - like crash standards, emissions, or provisions for a license plate. Some of these goals compete with one another. But a product like a Corvette also has some subjective goals to achieve - for instance - it has to look like a Corvette, and it has to look good.
You became a lightning rod for some of the frustration because of your cocky, no b.s. attitude. I have no problem with cockiness, but you took some of the criticism personally (and it isn't personal), and you forgot that there are a lot of other smart people on this forum. Most of us aren't idiots, and don't want to move to another state, or drive a *** car - which were your suggested solutions.
I think the license plate bracket design sucks - in plain English. From the point of view of function, aesthetics, and installation. I believe the "problem" started at the conceptual design stage - on the drawing board - before you ever saw the car in the wind tunnel.
If every artsy idea that came off a drawing board was road worthy, we'd all be driving the Stingray III.
If the majority of the states require a front license plate, then a good design must include that requirement in the design criteria. Just like the rear air foil had to be designed with crash zone requirements in mind, as you explained a while ago.
The original design contemplated that the car would be a front and bottom breather - for whatever reasons - and the performance goals require certain air flow. That's fine. The problem is that the car needs to take air in from the front - and - a front license plate is a requirement. Why wasn't the front license plate incorporated into the original concept? The requirement couldn't have been news to anybody.
Now you've got a car that was tested and baselined without a front license plate, and Corvette customers in the majority of states are required to put an (unsightly) obstruction right in the flow path - and - there isn't even a foolproof method of installing it. I don't know everything, but I call that bad design.
For forum purposes, the design is what it is. We just want to know why, and what can be done about it. I doubt that it will stop too many people from buying an otherwise awesome car.
I'll close my diatribe by saying a couple of people have said that you're a good guy, and I believe them. You are part of the Corvette family, and just like any other family - we're going to have our differences. When all the shouting is over - we're all here for the same reason.
Peace
05-06-2004, 10:09 AM
#15
Moderator
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
wow jim,
Im astounded by the people that cant appreciate the hundreds of hours over again to make the C6........i dont get it...........the numbers speak for them selves.........people dont want americans to succeed??
Im astounded by the people that cant appreciate the hundreds of hours over again to make the C6........i dont get it...........the numbers speak for them selves.........people dont want americans to succeed??
05-06-2004, 10:55 AM
#16
Race Director
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
i'd look at sales of the c6 to judge its' success. it's easy to see if plate states are low. Keep in mind at least half a million current vette owners will not buy a new one no matter what, and have strong opinions as to why.
They really don't matter, as long as sales are strong and quality is good.
They really don't matter, as long as sales are strong and quality is good.
05-06-2004, 10:59 AM
#17
Race Director
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
Love the C6, you guys did a great job!!! Give us Z-51/6 speed guys an optional engine...You know that LS2 can do 450hp easily...... 
Todd
Todd
05-06-2004, 11:47 AM
#18
Re: Making C6 great (RPOZ25)
KBAB,
I don't presume to speak for everyone - and I don't mean to pile on - but this place is about discussion - so here are my 2 cents worth:
I think most people here understand that it takes a lot of effort to implement a design, and that there are a lot of factors to consider.
I don't think anyone can criticize your ability, your hard work, your military service (which isn't really relevant here), or your devotion. Part of what happened here before is that this is a tough crowd. We are pretty much crazy about our car. We want it to be perfect - but - everyone has a different idea about what perfect is.
Design is about trade-offs. There are objecive goals to achieve. Some are engineering goals - like Cd, air flow, or HP. Some are regulatory goals - like crash standards, emissions, or provisions for a license plate. Some of these goals compete with one another. But a product like a Corvette also has some subjective goals to achieve - for instance - it has to look like a Corvette, and it has to look good.
You became a lightning rod for some of the frustration because of your cocky, no b.s. attitude. I have no problem with cockiness, but you took some of the criticism personally (and it isn't personal), and you forgot that there are a lot of other smart people on this forum. Most of us aren't idiots, and don't want to move to another state, or drive a *** car - which were your suggested solutions.
I think the license plate bracket design sucks - in plain English. From the point of view of function, aesthetics, and installation. I believe the "problem" started at the conceptual design stage - on the drawing board - before you ever saw the car in the wind tunnel.
If every artsy idea that came off a drawing board was road worthy, we'd all be driving the Stingray III.
If the majority of the states require a front license plate, then a good design must include that requirement in the design criteria. Just like the rear air foil had to be designed with crash zone requirements in mind, as you explained a while ago.
The original design contemplated that the car would be a front and bottom breather - for whatever reasons - and the performance goals require certain air flow. That's fine. The problem is that the car needs to take air in from the front - and - a front license plate is a requirement. Why wasn't the front license plate incorporated into the original concept? The requirement couldn't have been news to anybody.
Now you've got a car that was tested and baselined without a front license plate, and Corvette customers in the majority of states are required to put an (unsightly) obstruction right in the flow path - and - there isn't even a foolproof method of installing it. I don't know everything, but I call that bad design.
For forum purposes, the design is what it is. We just want to know why, and what can be done about it. I doubt that it will stop too many people from buying an otherwise awesome car.
I'll close my diatribe by saying a couple of people have said that you're a good guy, and I believe them. You are part of the Corvette family, and just like any other family - we're going to have our differences. When all the shouting is over - we're all here for the same reason.
Peace
I don't presume to speak for everyone - and I don't mean to pile on - but this place is about discussion - so here are my 2 cents worth:
I think most people here understand that it takes a lot of effort to implement a design, and that there are a lot of factors to consider.
I don't think anyone can criticize your ability, your hard work, your military service (which isn't really relevant here), or your devotion. Part of what happened here before is that this is a tough crowd. We are pretty much crazy about our car. We want it to be perfect - but - everyone has a different idea about what perfect is.
Design is about trade-offs. There are objecive goals to achieve. Some are engineering goals - like Cd, air flow, or HP. Some are regulatory goals - like crash standards, emissions, or provisions for a license plate. Some of these goals compete with one another. But a product like a Corvette also has some subjective goals to achieve - for instance - it has to look like a Corvette, and it has to look good.
You became a lightning rod for some of the frustration because of your cocky, no b.s. attitude. I have no problem with cockiness, but you took some of the criticism personally (and it isn't personal), and you forgot that there are a lot of other smart people on this forum. Most of us aren't idiots, and don't want to move to another state, or drive a *** car - which were your suggested solutions.
I think the license plate bracket design sucks - in plain English. From the point of view of function, aesthetics, and installation. I believe the "problem" started at the conceptual design stage - on the drawing board - before you ever saw the car in the wind tunnel.
If every artsy idea that came off a drawing board was road worthy, we'd all be driving the Stingray III.
If the majority of the states require a front license plate, then a good design must include that requirement in the design criteria. Just like the rear air foil had to be designed with crash zone requirements in mind, as you explained a while ago.
The original design contemplated that the car would be a front and bottom breather - for whatever reasons - and the performance goals require certain air flow. That's fine. The problem is that the car needs to take air in from the front - and - a front license plate is a requirement. Why wasn't the front license plate incorporated into the original concept? The requirement couldn't have been news to anybody.
Now you've got a car that was tested and baselined without a front license plate, and Corvette customers in the majority of states are required to put an (unsightly) obstruction right in the flow path - and - there isn't even a foolproof method of installing it. I don't know everything, but I call that bad design.
For forum purposes, the design is what it is. We just want to know why, and what can be done about it. I doubt that it will stop too many people from buying an otherwise awesome car.
I'll close my diatribe by saying a couple of people have said that you're a good guy, and I believe them. You are part of the Corvette family, and just like any other family - we're going to have our differences. When all the shouting is over - we're all here for the same reason.
Peace
Best of luck to you.
05-06-2004, 11:54 AM
#19
Re: Making C6 great (KB Aero Biscuit)
Im a combat vet f16 with the priveligde of working on corvettes........GM is under attack by competition which is fierce
Anyway- GM will never survive, if people like you can't accept mistakes and honest criticism about an obvious oversight. Fighters go through lots of changes after they hit production.
So what, SUCK IT UP and re-design the front for a license plate.
