Pipes

Bike Mike, an industry insider, reports that the aluminum frame for the C6 is in development, but won't be ready for the 2005 model year; problems with salt corrosion.

http://digitalcorvettes.com/forums/s...&threadid=5777

Scissors

Either the Steel guys or the Aluminum guys are going to look very dumb in a few months. :lol:

GDP

I didn't know salt corroded aluminum. :crazy:

I sure hope the C6 gets an aluminum frame. :yesnod:

Red Roaster

If the frame is steel initially, that could make for a horrible first year in sales for the C6, knowing that the following year will provide an aluminum frame.


[Modified by Red Roaster, 7:32 PM 11/19/2003]

Scissors

It eats aluminium alive--much worse than steel.

Captain Morgan

Everything I've heard leads me to believe the aluminum frame won't be offered until the Z06. But I could be wrong.

HummelS

:iagree: Maybe even the "super vette."

mitchydkid

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it pretty simple to give the frame an alodine coating followed by anodize or powder coat or some thick paint? I work with some MIL-STD computer chassis that are brazed aluminum and they are rated to resist salt fog for operations at sea and such. Maybe it is the expense, not the process.

I Bin Therbefor

http://www.ott.doe.gov/pdfs/super_plastic.pdf

Not for frame, but explains the other item. Odd that Bike Mike doesn't know the proper terminology.

Panoz has used body parts made this way from the beginning of the company.

As for the frame, here's a list of cars tht use al in those areas. http://www.autoaluminum.org/frame.htm

This post doesn't make sense. :cool:


[Modified by I Bin Therbefor, 2:30 AM 11/20/2003]


[Modified by I Bin Therbefor, 2:59 AM 11/20/2003]


[Modified by I Bin Therbefor, 3:00 AM 11/20/2003]

Butta

So??? Screw everyone else :jester , I live in California and I never see snow, only in tahoe, and I never take my vette there.


[Modified by Butta, 6:46 PM 11/19/2003]

Runge_Kutta

Just a few thoughts here. I recall Bob Lutz saying that the base
C6 will beat the Z06 - right out of the box. How's it going to
do that? I would contend by having less weight and more power. We
have heard from innumerable sources that the base engine has 400-410hp.
If that's true, the engine is not the reason why C6 will beat the C5
Z06. Each new generation has represented a substantial improvement
over the last. For the base model, the engine does not appear to be
where this upgrade will take place. A slightly better torque band
is an incremental improvement. Another way to beat the C5 Z06
is to be lighter. The C5 "structure" is 228 kg and is nearly all
steel. If you want to lose weight, there is no better place to go
hunting than the structure. I think an aluminum frame is fitting
for a passing of the torch from C5 to C6.

Long ago, Motor Trend said that the Corvette team had wanted to use
an aluminum frame but gave up. More recently, Car and Driver said,
"Don't look for a carbon-fiber body and aluminum hydroformed frame
on the new C6 Corvette -- they're reserved for the Le Mans effort."
We now hear that that is exactly what they are doing - aluminum
for everone and CF for the Z06. We also had the comment from some
Bowling Green publication that there was a special "Z06 frame"
handler being installed at the plant. There sure is a lot of noise
going on about something that isn't supposed to be happening.

In 1995, GM submitted a patent (5,557,961) entitled " Hydroformed
structural member with varied wall thickness." The word aluminum
appears 3 times. In 1999, the same authors published "Application
of Hydroformed Aluminum Extrusions to Vehicle Sub- Frame With
Varied Wall Thickness," stating that a 36% weight improvement could
be obtained by moving from steel to aluminum.

There are other relevant GM patents:
20030196307 Joining and forming of tubular members
20030192160 PROCESS FOR FORMING ALUMNINUM HYDROFORMS
20030164255 Modular chassis with simplified body-attachment interface
20030102668 Method of hydroforming articles and the articles formed thereby

6,305,201 Method and apparatus for forming unobstructed holes in
__________hollow hydroformed metal parts
6,183,013 Hydroformed side rail for a vehicle frame and method of manufacture
5,557,961 Hydroformed structural member with varied wall thickness
5,445,001 Method and apparatus for forming and cutting tubing
5,431,326 Method of forming a tubular member with separate flange
5,333,775 Hydroforming of compound tubes

My point here is that this business of hydroformed alumimum is an old
topic around GM. From 20030192160, the preferred material appears to be
aluminum alloy 5754CC. I do not know what its corrosion characteristics
are but aluminum generally forms an Al2O3 coating. Also, the thicknesses
of the frame look like they run from 2mm to 8mm. I don't think vacuum
forming is meant for such large thicknesses.

So, I'd say that GM decided a while ago what they were going to do here
and aren't going to be making last minute changes to something as big
as the frame material. They have had MANY years to get aluminum frames
right and to suggest that they just found a problem recently and decided
to capitulate and abandon aluminum sounds implausible to me. Besides,
look at page 15 of
http://www.autoaluminum.org/corpub.pdf

and notice that 5754 is recommended. (CC = continuously cast - I think)

I still believe that the frame will be aluminum but that is simply
a guess based on what I can read from others.

We shall see ...



[Modified by Runge_Kutta, 8:52 PM 11/19/2003]

ivan111

Because the C6 frame uses more hydroformed parts rigidity should be up over the C5... :D

GDP

Maybe the frame would have less flex if you beat an X into it with a hammer.

SWCDuke

What the hell is an "almuminum frame"? The current "frame" uses steel, aluminum, and magnesium. The side rails are steel, and if you know anything about structural engineering, you know that to build a Corvette with aluminum side rails, the entire car would have to be redesigned to make the stiffness and crash numbers that are required.

All this talk of an "aluminum frame" C6 is just some dummy's pipedream.

Duke

74_LS-4

I don't see why AL hydroformed rails wouldn't be possible. Particularly in a fixed roof coupe that has the added benefit of a roof structure tied in.

-Jim

blittle

I does and it can be a real mess...........that's why you never see aluminum on boats or boat gear that run in saltwater.

Scissors

:withstupid:

FoolCrzy

:withstupid:

:lol:

ivan111

Well i think that the corrosion problem can be resolve...Audi A8 and Ferrari 360 have aluminum frame with no corrosion problems......

PeteyPete

All the more reason to wait for the Z06.