Valve dropped and extended warranty is denying me, help!!
03-28-2017, 03:46 PM
#1
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Valve dropped and extended warranty is denying me, help!!
My valve dropped in my 2008 C6 Z06. I've been dealing with the biggest nightmare trying to get my extended warranty to cover my engine for the past 3 weeks. The car is almost completely stock besides I have cut outs before the mufflers, but AFTER the catalytic converters. The extended warranty has denied me, and I have no idea what to do and can barely think clearly at this point. I've heard it is illegal to deny coverage due to an aftermarket exhaust system. Please HELP!!
The Z06 only has 22k miles on her.
The Z06 only has 22k miles on her.
Last edited by Rnalecz; 03-28-2017 at 03:48 PM.
03-28-2017, 03:49 PM
#2
Did you read the fine print?
03-28-2017, 03:54 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I hope you get some real advice but what type of help are you expecting. You're going to hear 50 different stories about I heard this and a buddy heard that. Not trying to be an *** but that's what you're going to get.
The only advice I can give it to find a warranty lawyer, if they exist. Read you documentation...the fine print too. If it says anywhere that the car cannot be modified you're going to have a tough time.
I wish you sincere luck!
The only advice I can give it to find a warranty lawyer, if they exist. Read you documentation...the fine print too. If it says anywhere that the car cannot be modified you're going to have a tough time.
I wish you sincere luck!
Last edited by MH663; 03-28-2017 at 03:55 PM.
03-28-2017, 04:05 PM
#6
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There is damage to cylinder #3. The piston has been destroyed and the valve as well. I believe there is damage inside the wall, but I'm not 100% sure.
I realize what I'm getting into here, but I hope to find someone who knows more knowledge on extended warranties and what laws apply. I will double check the fine print of the warranty.
This is what I've heard...
"The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act of 1975 specifically addresses the voiding of warranties due to modifications. In a nutshell, it says that a dealer cannot void a warranty just because a modification has been made. And, in fact must prove, not just state, that a part or system failure is directly related to the installation of the aftermarket part, unless the warranty clearly states that the modification will void a warranty.
It also says that a manufacturer cannot do blanket voids. For example, headers and water pumps are both covered under the powertrain warranty, but they can't refuse to cover a failed water pump because you have installed headers."
"From our website http://www.borla.com/faqs/#6
Q. Will it void my factory warranty?
NO. Some cars even have BORLA systems as the OEM exhaust. All of our street exhaust products are 50-state emissions legal. Our headers are 50-state legal and C.A.R.B. approved. In fact, it is illegal for a dealer to deny you the OE warranty because you have changed the exhaust system.
If your vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, contact EPA at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, contact the FTC at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. For additional information, check out the following links:"
I realize what I'm getting into here, but I hope to find someone who knows more knowledge on extended warranties and what laws apply. I will double check the fine print of the warranty.
This is what I've heard...
"The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act of 1975 specifically addresses the voiding of warranties due to modifications. In a nutshell, it says that a dealer cannot void a warranty just because a modification has been made. And, in fact must prove, not just state, that a part or system failure is directly related to the installation of the aftermarket part, unless the warranty clearly states that the modification will void a warranty.
It also says that a manufacturer cannot do blanket voids. For example, headers and water pumps are both covered under the powertrain warranty, but they can't refuse to cover a failed water pump because you have installed headers."
"From our website http://www.borla.com/faqs/#6
Q. Will it void my factory warranty?
NO. Some cars even have BORLA systems as the OEM exhaust. All of our street exhaust products are 50-state emissions legal. Our headers are 50-state legal and C.A.R.B. approved. In fact, it is illegal for a dealer to deny you the OE warranty because you have changed the exhaust system.
If your vehicle manufacturer fails to honor emission/warranty claims, contact EPA at (202) 260-2080 or www.epa.gov. If federal warranty protection is denied, contact the FTC at (202) 326-3128 or www.ftc.gov. For additional information, check out the following links:"
03-28-2017, 04:12 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
What you wrote/read about the Magnuson Moss and other items have to do with the manufacturer's warranty. I won't go into what a bunch of hooey some of that stuff is to begin with, but none of that applies to you. You have an extended warranty, which is a service contract/insurance product between you and whoever writes the policy. As noted already, you should read the fine print and/or talk with a lawyer who deals with these things.
If you have a GMPP/GMEPP warranty, let us know as many of us have them and can help review the fine print.
PS. If you have one of the no-name aftermarket warranties, many of their business models are based upon denying claims. So you'll have an uphill battle, but it may be winnable.
If you have a GMPP/GMEPP warranty, let us know as many of us have them and can help review the fine print.
PS. If you have one of the no-name aftermarket warranties, many of their business models are based upon denying claims. So you'll have an uphill battle, but it may be winnable.
Last edited by z28lt1; 03-28-2017 at 04:13 PM.
03-28-2017, 04:19 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Extended warranty from who...a 3rd party or the manufacturer. They are probably counting on you not wanting to hire or fight it in court.
Borla may say that but keep in mind they are trying to sell you something too.
The general statement is true but if you signed a document that says" NO MODS" I THINK you're going to be SOL.
How much is it going to cost to repair? I'm assuming you know that?
You have to read the fine print as stated in the warranty documents. That is your 1st step. Understanding what you signed!
Borla may say that but keep in mind they are trying to sell you something too.
The general statement is true but if you signed a document that says" NO MODS" I THINK you're going to be SOL.
How much is it going to cost to repair? I'm assuming you know that?
You have to read the fine print as stated in the warranty documents. That is your 1st step. Understanding what you signed!
03-28-2017, 04:34 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Did the insurance company send out an adjuster to look at it? Did you provide them with a written or voice recorded and transcribed (by them) statement as to exactly what happened?
Has the damage been documented (both in synopsis report and photos)? If so, who has that information.
Was a credible shop (dealer) involved in discussing the claim with the so-called insurance company / adjuster?
Who was the seller (insurance agent) of the extended warranty policy? - I ask only because you may have recourse against that person/agent - under what is called "errors and omissions"
Was the basis for denial of coverage due to aftermarket exhaust (cut-outs) ? In their denial, did they state IN WRITING, the exact reason - (quoting line by line from the policy) a particular part (maybe exclusions) of the policy?
Who/What company issued the policy? You may have to ask if it was an 'admitted' company or a 'surplus lines' issuer that provided the warranty policy.
Have you received an official denial of coverage letter from the warranty/insurance company?
In whose care, custody, and control is the car in now?
What state are you in, and whichever, get a number for that states department of insurance.
**There is no such thing as the so-called 'fine-print'. Everything should be fully stated as to what is a covered loss (insuring agreement), what is not a covered loss (exclusions), conditions (additional terms that may be applicable), endorsements (modifications either restrictive or expansive of basic coverages), and the like.
Once you have all of the above, only then can a consumer protection agency, attorney, or your states Department of Insurance (who will ask you all of the above) help you going forward.
I'd love to see the policy/warranty wording they sold you.....
Ran across this 'sample' wording policy. ALL CAP wording carries specific meanings applicable only to those used in the context of the document/policy - (Definitions) - other companies use bold wording to mean certain words have a specific meaning.
My educated guess is this sample policy is most likely very similar to any other product of it's kind and could in fact be regulated by various State Department of Insurance approvals.
https://deltaautoprotect.com/files/sample.contract.php
Has the damage been documented (both in synopsis report and photos)? If so, who has that information.
Was a credible shop (dealer) involved in discussing the claim with the so-called insurance company / adjuster?
Who was the seller (insurance agent) of the extended warranty policy? - I ask only because you may have recourse against that person/agent - under what is called "errors and omissions"
Was the basis for denial of coverage due to aftermarket exhaust (cut-outs) ? In their denial, did they state IN WRITING, the exact reason - (quoting line by line from the policy) a particular part (maybe exclusions) of the policy?
Who/What company issued the policy? You may have to ask if it was an 'admitted' company or a 'surplus lines' issuer that provided the warranty policy.
Have you received an official denial of coverage letter from the warranty/insurance company?
In whose care, custody, and control is the car in now?
What state are you in, and whichever, get a number for that states department of insurance.
**There is no such thing as the so-called 'fine-print'. Everything should be fully stated as to what is a covered loss (insuring agreement), what is not a covered loss (exclusions), conditions (additional terms that may be applicable), endorsements (modifications either restrictive or expansive of basic coverages), and the like.
Once you have all of the above, only then can a consumer protection agency, attorney, or your states Department of Insurance (who will ask you all of the above) help you going forward.
I'd love to see the policy/warranty wording they sold you.....
Ran across this 'sample' wording policy. ALL CAP wording carries specific meanings applicable only to those used in the context of the document/policy - (Definitions) - other companies use bold wording to mean certain words have a specific meaning.
My educated guess is this sample policy is most likely very similar to any other product of it's kind and could in fact be regulated by various State Department of Insurance approvals.
https://deltaautoprotect.com/files/sample.contract.php
Last edited by diyguy; 03-28-2017 at 05:17 PM.
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ForceFedC4 (03-28-2017)
03-28-2017, 04:41 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
**There is no such thing as the so-called 'fine-print'. Everything should be fully stated as to what is a covered loss (insuring agreement), what is not a covered loss (exclusions), conditions (additional terms that may be applicable), endorsements (modifications either restrictive or expansive of basic coverages), and the like.
Now DIYGUY has a great response! The only comment back is based on the above. I think we all know there is no such thing as "fine print". It's implied to mean.."the details" of the contract.
Now DIYGUY has a great response! The only comment back is based on the above. I think we all know there is no such thing as "fine print". It's implied to mean.."the details" of the contract.
Last edited by MH663; 03-28-2017 at 04:42 PM.
03-28-2017, 04:43 PM
#11
I can guarantee they have "the fine print" memorized.
03-28-2017, 04:45 PM
#12
Team Owner
this is why I spent my money on fixing the issue not a warranty.....good luck
03-28-2017, 04:58 PM
#13
Racer
DiyGuy wins post of the year, that was about as well informed a reply as you'll ever get on this matter.
We need to see the denial letter, and their reasoning. If it was verbal, ask them for it in writing.
From my experience, I do not buy extended warranties because after reading dozens of them I have found mostly the same thing written in different ways in all of them.
"We reserve the right to deny warranty coverage for any reason stated or not stated in this agreement and such decisions our made by us at our discretion."
Then there is the "fine print" Everybody is talking about. It isn't in a smaller font, it's just mashed between 6,000 other words that nobody went over with you. They pointed out to you that the engine was covered for up to 25,000 miles or 5 years what ever the terms may be. They may have failed to mention the word engine only covers defects to the pistons, connecting rods, or the crankshaft.
So even if your warranty explicitly states that it covers damage to such items as "Drive train components" or "Engine" There will always be more to read where it says "Covers manufacturers defects to such items as the rotating assembly under xx,xxx miles but doesn't cover accidental damage to valve train or other wear items such as piston rings and bearing failures."
You really have to read your contract carefully, they may very well be denying you coverage because you overlooked the word "valvetrain" when you saw the word "engine."
It happens all the time, and they have the document you signed proving it.
We all feel for you, but in order to win this discussion with them - you have to be right.
We need to see the denial letter, and their reasoning. If it was verbal, ask them for it in writing.
From my experience, I do not buy extended warranties because after reading dozens of them I have found mostly the same thing written in different ways in all of them.
"We reserve the right to deny warranty coverage for any reason stated or not stated in this agreement and such decisions our made by us at our discretion."
Then there is the "fine print" Everybody is talking about. It isn't in a smaller font, it's just mashed between 6,000 other words that nobody went over with you. They pointed out to you that the engine was covered for up to 25,000 miles or 5 years what ever the terms may be. They may have failed to mention the word engine only covers defects to the pistons, connecting rods, or the crankshaft.
So even if your warranty explicitly states that it covers damage to such items as "Drive train components" or "Engine" There will always be more to read where it says "Covers manufacturers defects to such items as the rotating assembly under xx,xxx miles but doesn't cover accidental damage to valve train or other wear items such as piston rings and bearing failures."
You really have to read your contract carefully, they may very well be denying you coverage because you overlooked the word "valvetrain" when you saw the word "engine."
It happens all the time, and they have the document you signed proving it.
We all feel for you, but in order to win this discussion with them - you have to be right.
03-28-2017, 05:02 PM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
If you ask me, there is fine print in every "aftermarket warranty." But, in all honesty you've given far too little info for anyone to make a valid opinion. I'd say, the best you can do is a) answer some of the questions asked here, and b) look at the list fr. diy.
While I'm not familiar with the more recent GM/Chev GMEPP, I am knowledgeable about the older (now Ally Bank-owned) GMPP Major Guard. Simply put, you may have violated their "warranty."
Answer the questions, and take it from there. And, btw, you can forget the Magnuson-Moss Act applying in your case unless a) it's far more clear cut than it seems even now, or b) you have unusually deep pockets for lawyers that will cost you easily thousands, not hundreds.
While I'm not familiar with the more recent GM/Chev GMEPP, I am knowledgeable about the older (now Ally Bank-owned) GMPP Major Guard. Simply put, you may have violated their "warranty."
Answer the questions, and take it from there. And, btw, you can forget the Magnuson-Moss Act applying in your case unless a) it's far more clear cut than it seems even now, or b) you have unusually deep pockets for lawyers that will cost you easily thousands, not hundreds.
03-28-2017, 05:09 PM
#15
Melting Slicks
You need to talk with a lawyer the specializes in contract law. Don't know if yours is a 3rd party warranty or not; but a few years ago I did some research on them and found out most are a total waste of money and it's big hassle trying to get them to pay for almost anything. They will look for any excuse not to pay and/or make extremely it difficult to collect knowing that most can't afford or won't get a lawyer.
03-28-2017, 05:23 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
You may also try posting this up on the forums Z06 section. You may some real world dropped valve warranty experience over there since this is a know issue with the Z06.
03-28-2017, 05:25 PM
#17
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Did the insurance company send out an adjuster to look at it? Did you provide them with a written or voice recorded and transcribed (by them) statement as to exactly what happened?
The insurance company did in fact send out an adjuster. I gave them the oil changes/dates/mileage. Then they denied me due to not having receipts. I then had to go dig around and then I provided them my receipts. They reopened the claim and now they're trying to find this reason... I did not provide a written or voice recorded transcript. They originally were trying to deny me without even opening the engine. Finally they opened the oil pan. All verbal through my dealer.
Has the damage been documented (both in synopsis report and photos)? If so, who has that information. The dealer has opened up the engine and taken some pictures. They sent those to the warranty guys. Originally, the warranty guys were going to send out another adjuster, but they just decided to blame the cut outs.
Was a credible shop (dealer) involved in discussing the claim with the so-called insurance company / adjuster? My dealer "MASTER GMC" in Augusta, GA has been very helpful and on my side trying to resolve this situation. My service advoser has been dealing with the insurance company.
Who was the seller (insurance agent) of the extended warranty policy? - I ask only because you may have recourse against that person/agent - under what is called "errors and omissions" I am using the extended warranty from Autonation. They provided me with the extended warranty. Please take a look at their website. https://www.autonation.com/protectio...rotection-plan
Was the basis for denial of coverage due to aftermarket exhaust (cut-outs) ? In their denial, did they state IN WRITING, the exact reason - from a particular part (maybe exclusions) of the policy? I was only told verbally by my service advisor. Nothing in writing. Should I try to get written denials? They are saying it is now due to the aftermarket exhaust.
Who/What company issued the policy? You may have to ask if it was an 'admitted' company or a 'surplus lines' issuer that provided the warranty policy. I'm not really sure what this means or what it can provide. The warranty was provided by Autonation which is a dealer on Mansel Road, Roswell GA. It is their warranty from my understanding.
Have you received an official denial of coverage letter from the warranty/insurance company? No.
In whose care, custody, and control is the car in now? The car is at the lift of the dealer. I just received the new verbal denial today
What state are you in, and whichever, get a number for that states department of insurance. I live in GA. Would this be my next best bet to contact?
**There is no such thing as the so-called 'fine-print'. Everything should be fully stated as to what is a covered loss (insuring agreement), what is not a covered loss (exclusions), conditions (additional terms that may be applicable), endorsements (modifications either restrictive or expansive of basic coverages), and the like. I have the Platinum warranty that says "coverage includes all items excluding those listed on this brochure in the "What's Not Covered" section." In that section the only things listed are Maintenance things and then the typical Parts. Only parts I see called out is the Exhaust system and catalytic converter that even come close to this situation. On the link you can see the same things mentioned on the website. https://www.autonation.com/protectio...rotection-plan
Once you have all of the above, only then can a consumer protection agency, attorney (who will ask you all of the above) help you going forward. I really appreciate all the help and I'm glad everyone is being extremely helpful.
I'd love to see the policy/warranty wording they sold you.....
The insurance company did in fact send out an adjuster. I gave them the oil changes/dates/mileage. Then they denied me due to not having receipts. I then had to go dig around and then I provided them my receipts. They reopened the claim and now they're trying to find this reason... I did not provide a written or voice recorded transcript. They originally were trying to deny me without even opening the engine. Finally they opened the oil pan. All verbal through my dealer.
Has the damage been documented (both in synopsis report and photos)? If so, who has that information. The dealer has opened up the engine and taken some pictures. They sent those to the warranty guys. Originally, the warranty guys were going to send out another adjuster, but they just decided to blame the cut outs.
Was a credible shop (dealer) involved in discussing the claim with the so-called insurance company / adjuster? My dealer "MASTER GMC" in Augusta, GA has been very helpful and on my side trying to resolve this situation. My service advoser has been dealing with the insurance company.
Who was the seller (insurance agent) of the extended warranty policy? - I ask only because you may have recourse against that person/agent - under what is called "errors and omissions" I am using the extended warranty from Autonation. They provided me with the extended warranty. Please take a look at their website. https://www.autonation.com/protectio...rotection-plan
Was the basis for denial of coverage due to aftermarket exhaust (cut-outs) ? In their denial, did they state IN WRITING, the exact reason - from a particular part (maybe exclusions) of the policy? I was only told verbally by my service advisor. Nothing in writing. Should I try to get written denials? They are saying it is now due to the aftermarket exhaust.
Who/What company issued the policy? You may have to ask if it was an 'admitted' company or a 'surplus lines' issuer that provided the warranty policy. I'm not really sure what this means or what it can provide. The warranty was provided by Autonation which is a dealer on Mansel Road, Roswell GA. It is their warranty from my understanding.
Have you received an official denial of coverage letter from the warranty/insurance company? No.
In whose care, custody, and control is the car in now? The car is at the lift of the dealer. I just received the new verbal denial today
What state are you in, and whichever, get a number for that states department of insurance. I live in GA. Would this be my next best bet to contact?
**There is no such thing as the so-called 'fine-print'. Everything should be fully stated as to what is a covered loss (insuring agreement), what is not a covered loss (exclusions), conditions (additional terms that may be applicable), endorsements (modifications either restrictive or expansive of basic coverages), and the like. I have the Platinum warranty that says "coverage includes all items excluding those listed on this brochure in the "What's Not Covered" section." In that section the only things listed are Maintenance things and then the typical Parts. Only parts I see called out is the Exhaust system and catalytic converter that even come close to this situation. On the link you can see the same things mentioned on the website. https://www.autonation.com/protectio...rotection-plan
Once you have all of the above, only then can a consumer protection agency, attorney (who will ask you all of the above) help you going forward. I really appreciate all the help and I'm glad everyone is being extremely helpful.
I'd love to see the policy/warranty wording they sold you.....
Please see my writing in red. I do not see any fine print specifying anything aftermarket/modifications anywhere.
Last edited by Rnalecz; 03-28-2017 at 05:27 PM.
03-28-2017, 05:28 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Re-Read post #9 (a bit more info).
Then, see this.... As you can see, there is no trick wording, nothing that is not completey spelled out.. There is nothing under a coverage agreement or denial that says or implies "at the companies discretion" aside from premium payment, cancellation provisions, fraudulent applications, and the like. The coverages are Clear and Concise. It either is or isn't covered
If a disagreement, they do have a provisions that Arbitration may be binding in your state.
Anyway... Enjoy reading.....
https://deltaautoprotect.com/files/sample.contract.php
Then, see this.... As you can see, there is no trick wording, nothing that is not completey spelled out.. There is nothing under a coverage agreement or denial that says or implies "at the companies discretion" aside from premium payment, cancellation provisions, fraudulent applications, and the like. The coverages are Clear and Concise. It either is or isn't covered
If a disagreement, they do have a provisions that Arbitration may be binding in your state.
Anyway... Enjoy reading.....
https://deltaautoprotect.com/files/sample.contract.php
Last edited by diyguy; 03-28-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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bgspot (03-31-2017)
03-28-2017, 05:46 PM
#20