Onstar upgrade killed PAL
10-30-2015, 02:54 AM
#1
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Onstar upgrade killed PAL
Hello everyone. We'll here is my problem. I live in Canada and Canada is removing the CDMA stream, so Onstar called me about an upgrade module that give is GSM (3g) network availability. I said yes, paid my subscription fee for the year. My Module was sent to our local GM dealership to be installed.
I dropped off my car, had it installed. My son picked up the Vet and called me, telling something about the iPod not working and there is a clicking coming from the floor on the passage get foot well. I couldn't check it out so I told him bring the car back to GM the next day for them to have a loom, and guess what. Dead battery, so after jumping the car the click was back so we checked the PAL module and it constantly cycling. Battery dead again the next day. So called the dealer to have a look.
I was told the PAL module failed, I said, no can't be. I have spare just incase, we tried the new PAL module, & still no change. I asked them to install the old Onstar module back, still the same problem.
Anyone have an idea as to wtf is going on....
Every thing worked one day now PAL don't work next day.....after Onstar bright idea, Andy they want me to foot the bill......
I dropped off my car, had it installed. My son picked up the Vet and called me, telling something about the iPod not working and there is a clicking coming from the floor on the passage get foot well. I couldn't check it out so I told him bring the car back to GM the next day for them to have a loom, and guess what. Dead battery, so after jumping the car the click was back so we checked the PAL module and it constantly cycling. Battery dead again the next day. So called the dealer to have a look.
I was told the PAL module failed, I said, no can't be. I have spare just incase, we tried the new PAL module, & still no change. I asked them to install the old Onstar module back, still the same problem.
Anyone have an idea as to wtf is going on....
Every thing worked one day now PAL don't work next day.....after Onstar bright idea, Andy they want me to foot the bill......
Last edited by Cokeisgood; 10-31-2015 at 11:37 AM.
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jeffs64 (02-23-2018)
10-31-2015, 05:32 PM
#2
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Hello everyone. We'll here is my problem. I live in Canada and Canada is removing the CDMA stream, so Onstar called me about an upgrade module that give is GSM (3g) network availability. I said yes, paid my subscription fee for the year. My Module was sent to our local GM dealership to be installed.
I dropped off my car, had it installed. My son picked up the Vet and called me, telling something about the iPod not working and there is a clicking coming from the floor on the passage get foot well. I couldn't check it out so I told him bring the car back to GM the next day for them to have a loom, and guess what. Dead battery, so after jumping the car the click was back so we checked the PAL module and it constantly cycling. Battery dead again the next day. So called the dealer to have a look.
I was told the PAL module failed, I said, no can't be. I have spare just incase, we tried the new PAL module, & still no change. I asked them to install the old Onstar module back, still the same problem.
Anyone have an idea as to wtf is going on....
Every thing worked one day now PAL don't work next day.....after Onstar bright idea, Andy they want me to foot the bill......
I dropped off my car, had it installed. My son picked up the Vet and called me, telling something about the iPod not working and there is a clicking coming from the floor on the passage get foot well. I couldn't check it out so I told him bring the car back to GM the next day for them to have a loom, and guess what. Dead battery, so after jumping the car the click was back so we checked the PAL module and it constantly cycling. Battery dead again the next day. So called the dealer to have a look.
I was told the PAL module failed, I said, no can't be. I have spare just incase, we tried the new PAL module, & still no change. I asked them to install the old Onstar module back, still the same problem.
Anyone have an idea as to wtf is going on....
Every thing worked one day now PAL don't work next day.....after Onstar bright idea, Andy they want me to foot the bill......
10-31-2015, 09:46 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
there used to be a problem with the Onstar modules staying on and killing the batteries and you were supposed to pull the fuse, wait and reset it. from what i remember the onstar module is under the passenger seat. do you have a mild to wild installed in the footwell ? i wonder if something was rewired in there or the power wire is loose causing the relay sound. the power seat switches have also known to go bad drawing enough current to kill the battery.
Last edited by truckplay; 10-31-2015 at 09:48 PM.
10-31-2015, 10:36 PM
#4
Race Car Tech
It sucks to hear about your issue after the upgrade???
I have been an Onstar subscriber since I have had my C6. I have enjoyed the service, nice while travelling since the Onstar is good anywhere one travels and never uses long distance charges etc. It has opened my doors a few times when I locked the FOB in the car.
When I learned of this "free" required upgrade from 2LG to WIFI capability, but only free with a prepaid year subscription, that turned me off.
I decided I don't need Onstar, I don't need the upgrade, and once I upgrade my car (maybe to a C7) it will have the WIFI ready Onstar, so maybe I'll get it again after my free year.
Anyway, here is a warning about the upgrade in the letter I received:
Note: Vehicles equipped with hard-wired aftermarket electronic equipment² may not be compatible with the upgraded OnStar hardware. This may result in additional installation costs, prevent the upgrade of the OnStar equipment, and/or render the aftermarket equipment inoperative after the upgrade attempt. If this type of equipment is installed in your vehicle and you choose to upgrade your OnStar hardware, you will be responsible for any additional expense incurred.
I have been an Onstar subscriber since I have had my C6. I have enjoyed the service, nice while travelling since the Onstar is good anywhere one travels and never uses long distance charges etc. It has opened my doors a few times when I locked the FOB in the car.
When I learned of this "free" required upgrade from 2LG to WIFI capability, but only free with a prepaid year subscription, that turned me off.
I decided I don't need Onstar, I don't need the upgrade, and once I upgrade my car (maybe to a C7) it will have the WIFI ready Onstar, so maybe I'll get it again after my free year.
Anyway, here is a warning about the upgrade in the letter I received:
Note: Vehicles equipped with hard-wired aftermarket electronic equipment² may not be compatible with the upgraded OnStar hardware. This may result in additional installation costs, prevent the upgrade of the OnStar equipment, and/or render the aftermarket equipment inoperative after the upgrade attempt. If this type of equipment is installed in your vehicle and you choose to upgrade your OnStar hardware, you will be responsible for any additional expense incurred.
10-31-2015, 10:53 PM
#5
Kind of funny, since the on star module in in the glove box area, and the pal is plugged into the XM receiver at the drivers rear tire area instead.
As for what they share, both are plugged into the GM lan bus, and the On star module must have a funky command that it sending to the GM pal over the lan bus that keeps cycling it instead.
Being that the GM Pal was first to be in the cars and a GM product, would dare to guess that ON star has the problem with their new module update programming that needs to be resolved (just don't hold your breath for them to fix the problem instead).
As for what they share, both are plugged into the GM lan bus, and the On star module must have a funky command that it sending to the GM pal over the lan bus that keeps cycling it instead.
Being that the GM Pal was first to be in the cars and a GM product, would dare to guess that ON star has the problem with their new module update programming that needs to be resolved (just don't hold your breath for them to fix the problem instead).
11-01-2015, 12:01 AM
#7
Race Car Tech
This is what part of the letter from OnStar said:
Canadian wireless service providers have informed OnStar®1 that the 2G wireless network in your area - the network we use to provide service in your 2006 Chevrolet Corvette will be decommissioned in late December 2015.
If your vehicle is not equipped with OnStar 4G LTE ( Vehicle Availability), or you have not had your vehicle’s hardware upgraded, OnStar service will no longer be available in those areas. See coverage map for details.
Affected Vehicles:
All OnStar equipped model year 2014 and older vehicles will be unable - without a hardware upgrade - to access OnStar services once the 2G CDMA networks are turned down by wireless providers in particular geographic areas. OnStar equipped 2015MY vehicles that have 2G CDMA hardware will similarly be unable to access OnStar services once the networks are turned down, including:
•Chevrolet Traverse
•Chevrolet Camaro
•Chevrolet Corvette
•Chevrolet Express
•Buick Enclave
•GMC Acadia
•GMC Savanna
•Certain Chevrolet Silverado HD
•Certain Chevrolet Spark EV
•Certain Chevrolet Suburban
•Certain Chevrolet Tahoe
•Certain GMC Sierra HD
•Certain GMC Yukon and Yukon XL
•Certain Cadillac Escalade and Escalade ESV
Last edited by 4SUMERZ; 11-01-2015 at 12:10 AM.
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DLove25 (03-28-2018)
11-05-2015, 11:10 AM
#8
4th Gear
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Onstar Upgrade
This exact same thing happened to me. after the upgrade the module was clicking, the next morning my battery was totally dead. Called GM and they said there was no fix nor was there anything they would do as it was not a factory installed module, albeit the PAL is a GM part from the dealer. If I'd known, I doubt I would have gone with the onstar upgrade.
11-07-2015, 07:25 PM
#10
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This exact same thing happened to me. after the upgrade the module was clicking, the next morning my battery was totally dead. Called GM and they said there was no fix nor was there anything they would do as it was not a factory installed module, albeit the PAL is a GM part from the dealer. If I'd known, I doubt I would have gone with the onstar upgrade.
11-09-2015, 12:13 AM
#12
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
PAL = Personal Audio Link, it's the interface device that allows us to us iPod devices and if research is done there is even a Bluetooth adapter that will allow us to play our Google phones or any other device with bluetooth. I've had mine installed for the past 5 years with out a problem, now Onstar wants to update there cell phone and.....poof....no PAL...just a dead battery. Passes me off. I can't get an answer from GM Canada on this....tomorrow I'm calling and really getting angry with them......wish me luck
Last edited by Cokeisgood; 11-09-2015 at 12:16 AM.
11-09-2015, 02:34 PM
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You'll have to let us know what GM said to you, they told me that they didn't feel there was anything at all they should do... They can't revert it even to get the functionality back. I'll trade OnStar for music in my car, wish I'd never taken the car in....ugh.
Not sure what to do, let me know if anyone has a suggestion? I had the PAL it taken out so at least I can use the car.
Not sure what to do, let me know if anyone has a suggestion? I had the PAL it taken out so at least I can use the car.
11-16-2015, 11:06 PM
#14
Emerging Vendor
PAL failure after Onstar Upgrade
I've been dealing with GM PALs since 2009, offering the Version 2 PAL to C6 Vette owners. Just in the last few weeks I've heard from three Vette owners who had the Onstar Upgrade and their PALs failed. Apparently this is only a Canadian problem, but there are plenty of PALs (including my Version 2 PALs) in Canada.
Two of the owners said they were going to send me their PAL modules so I could test them to see if the module was actually destroyed by the upgrade or whether the PAL is just not compatible with the upgrade. I haven't seen them yet, so I can't answer for sure.
Here's my main website:
http://www.kawal.net/vettemods.htm
and here is the PAL Troubleshooting Page:
http://www.kawal.net/troubleshoot.htm
When a PAL module fails (fortunately not very often), one of the most common symptoms is a constant clicking of the relay inside the module. This relay switches between XM1 and XM2, allowing the XM2 band on the radio to display and control the PAL menu. When a working module switches between XM1 and XM2, you will normally hear a click. But if a module fails, the clicking will continue and the module will not shut down when the car is shut down. Normally the shut down takes less than a minute and you will see the red LED on the module go out. But if the module doesn't shut down, the LED will stay on and the battery will go dead pretty quickly.
The other (important) consequence of this failure is that the only solution is to remove the PAL module. When this is done, you lose XM as well because the Class 2 communication to the XM receiver passes through the PAL module on Pins 7 and 8 of the 16 pin connector. When you remove the PAL module, communication to the XM receiver is lost and you have no XM bands. Without the PAL module in place the only way to get XM back is to jump Pins 7 and 8 at the connector. This isn't very easy unless you have a compatible Yazaki connector to plug onto the PAL connector. I've built these for quite a few Vette owners who remove their PAL modules, but the dealers won't have them.
In my opinion, GM should be held accountable for resolving this problem since the GM PAL is still a genuine GM accessory (GM part number 17800593) and it was a dealer installed factory option on all 2008-2010 Vettes, RPO code VSW. Not only was the PAL a rather expensive option, but it was the only way to connect an iPod or iPhone to the car's audio system. They are compatible with all C6 Corvettes with factory Nav and XM, and the Version 2 PALs are compatible with all factory radios, Nav and non-Nav, with or without XM. Only 2011 and later C6 Corvettes with factory Nav offered a USB connection for an iPod, so there are a LOT of PALs out there. GM should be responsible for developing an upgrade to the Onstar system that doesn't destroy their own accessories.
Ray
Two of the owners said they were going to send me their PAL modules so I could test them to see if the module was actually destroyed by the upgrade or whether the PAL is just not compatible with the upgrade. I haven't seen them yet, so I can't answer for sure.
Here's my main website:
http://www.kawal.net/vettemods.htm
and here is the PAL Troubleshooting Page:
http://www.kawal.net/troubleshoot.htm
When a PAL module fails (fortunately not very often), one of the most common symptoms is a constant clicking of the relay inside the module. This relay switches between XM1 and XM2, allowing the XM2 band on the radio to display and control the PAL menu. When a working module switches between XM1 and XM2, you will normally hear a click. But if a module fails, the clicking will continue and the module will not shut down when the car is shut down. Normally the shut down takes less than a minute and you will see the red LED on the module go out. But if the module doesn't shut down, the LED will stay on and the battery will go dead pretty quickly.
The other (important) consequence of this failure is that the only solution is to remove the PAL module. When this is done, you lose XM as well because the Class 2 communication to the XM receiver passes through the PAL module on Pins 7 and 8 of the 16 pin connector. When you remove the PAL module, communication to the XM receiver is lost and you have no XM bands. Without the PAL module in place the only way to get XM back is to jump Pins 7 and 8 at the connector. This isn't very easy unless you have a compatible Yazaki connector to plug onto the PAL connector. I've built these for quite a few Vette owners who remove their PAL modules, but the dealers won't have them.
In my opinion, GM should be held accountable for resolving this problem since the GM PAL is still a genuine GM accessory (GM part number 17800593) and it was a dealer installed factory option on all 2008-2010 Vettes, RPO code VSW. Not only was the PAL a rather expensive option, but it was the only way to connect an iPod or iPhone to the car's audio system. They are compatible with all C6 Corvettes with factory Nav and XM, and the Version 2 PALs are compatible with all factory radios, Nav and non-Nav, with or without XM. Only 2011 and later C6 Corvettes with factory Nav offered a USB connection for an iPod, so there are a LOT of PALs out there. GM should be responsible for developing an upgrade to the Onstar system that doesn't destroy their own accessories.
Ray
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NTHALP (03-29-2018)
12-09-2015, 06:12 PM
#15
Heel & Toe
Thread Starter
Hello everyone who is having this problem. I'm truly sorry for not posting on this earlier. I have been recovering from major surgery since this upgrade has screwed up my Vet.
I am feeling better now and have on the phone with GM Canada and OnStar about this issue. So this is the recap:
I called OnStar and raised major hell about this. OnStar says that i's GM's issue. GM's said it's an OnStar issue. So yesterday I called OnStar again about this problem, it has now been escalated and OnStar has called me back saying to take my car back GM for them to do a full diag on the Vet.
GM called me back to day as well. After a long and lengthy conversation with Erica, who I may say was a serous help, she has made me a GM Case File, and in the new year when the weather clears up I am taking my car to GM, they will be doing a full system diagnosis of the radio and communications system of the car and GM has assured me that there will be fix for this. Now because I live in the great white north I can't take my vet in earlier, so for anyone else out there that is having the same problem I suggest you do the same as I did.
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/corporate/about/contactus/
This is the link to GM Canada.
Select Contact Us Online >Expand Selection
Select bullet: I am a current owner and have a question, concern, comment or compliment
Now fill out all the forms.
Just tell GM what is wrong with your Vet.
After a day I was contacted by a very nice Lady named Erica. After our conversation my instructions from here were very clear. I'm sure GM Canada will help us out.
Now everyone with this issue need to contact GM asap, because the more of us that do this the sooner a bulletin will be released in Canada to the dealerships to fix this.
Cheers everyone.....
I am feeling better now and have on the phone with GM Canada and OnStar about this issue. So this is the recap:
I called OnStar and raised major hell about this. OnStar says that i's GM's issue. GM's said it's an OnStar issue. So yesterday I called OnStar again about this problem, it has now been escalated and OnStar has called me back saying to take my car back GM for them to do a full diag on the Vet.
GM called me back to day as well. After a long and lengthy conversation with Erica, who I may say was a serous help, she has made me a GM Case File, and in the new year when the weather clears up I am taking my car to GM, they will be doing a full system diagnosis of the radio and communications system of the car and GM has assured me that there will be fix for this. Now because I live in the great white north I can't take my vet in earlier, so for anyone else out there that is having the same problem I suggest you do the same as I did.
http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/corporate/about/contactus/
This is the link to GM Canada.
Select Contact Us Online >Expand Selection
Select bullet: I am a current owner and have a question, concern, comment or compliment
Now fill out all the forms.
Just tell GM what is wrong with your Vet.
After a day I was contacted by a very nice Lady named Erica. After our conversation my instructions from here were very clear. I'm sure GM Canada will help us out.
Now everyone with this issue need to contact GM asap, because the more of us that do this the sooner a bulletin will be released in Canada to the dealerships to fix this.
Cheers everyone.....
12-11-2015, 01:28 AM
#16
Emerging Vendor
I hope you are successful Lee. This should definitely be GM's responsibility for a number of reasons:
1. The GM PAL was a dealer installed option that you could order when you ordered a new C6 Corvette (RPO code VSW).
2 The GM PAL is a genuine GM accessory that can be ordered from any GM dealer's parts department. It is NOT an aftermarket iPod adapter.
3. The Onstar upgrade caused the problem, to which the only current solution is to remove the PAL module from the vehicle. If you don't, the battery will be dead in a few hours.
4. When you remove the PAL module, you will lose XM completely as well, so that is hardly an acceptable solution.
What GM should do at an absolute minimum is to send out a Technical Bulletin to every Corvette owner in Canada that this Onstar Upgrade WILL cause the PAL to fail, thereby warning them of the consequences. For those owners without a PAL, they can ignore the warning. For those owners with a PAL, they can choose not to upgrade. But to not warn Canadian Vette owners of this problem is going to cause a lot of grief and anger when they find out the problem like you did. I would suggest you stress that issue with your GM contact when you communicate again.
Ray
1. The GM PAL was a dealer installed option that you could order when you ordered a new C6 Corvette (RPO code VSW).
2 The GM PAL is a genuine GM accessory that can be ordered from any GM dealer's parts department. It is NOT an aftermarket iPod adapter.
3. The Onstar upgrade caused the problem, to which the only current solution is to remove the PAL module from the vehicle. If you don't, the battery will be dead in a few hours.
4. When you remove the PAL module, you will lose XM completely as well, so that is hardly an acceptable solution.
What GM should do at an absolute minimum is to send out a Technical Bulletin to every Corvette owner in Canada that this Onstar Upgrade WILL cause the PAL to fail, thereby warning them of the consequences. For those owners without a PAL, they can ignore the warning. For those owners with a PAL, they can choose not to upgrade. But to not warn Canadian Vette owners of this problem is going to cause a lot of grief and anger when they find out the problem like you did. I would suggest you stress that issue with your GM contact when you communicate again.
Ray
Last edited by kawal; 12-11-2015 at 01:29 AM.
12-11-2015, 09:16 AM
#17
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I hope you are successful Lee. This should definitely be GM's responsibility for a number of reasons:
1. The GM PAL was a dealer installed option that you could order when you ordered a new C6 Corvette (RPO code VSW).
2 The GM PAL is a genuine GM accessory that can be ordered from any GM dealer's parts department. It is NOT an aftermarket iPod adapter.
3. The Onstar upgrade caused the problem, to which the only current solution is to remove the PAL module from the vehicle. If you don't, the battery will be dead in a few hours.
4. When you remove the PAL module, you will lose XM completely as well, so that is hardly an acceptable solution.
What GM should do at an absolute minimum is to send out a Technical Bulletin to every Corvette owner in Canada that this Onstar Upgrade WILL cause the PAL to fail, thereby warning them of the consequences. For those owners without a PAL, they can ignore the warning. For those owners with a PAL, they can choose not to upgrade. But to not warn Canadian Vette owners of this problem is going to cause a lot of grief and anger when they find out the problem like you did. I would suggest you stress that issue with your GM contact when you communicate again.
Ray
1. The GM PAL was a dealer installed option that you could order when you ordered a new C6 Corvette (RPO code VSW).
2 The GM PAL is a genuine GM accessory that can be ordered from any GM dealer's parts department. It is NOT an aftermarket iPod adapter.
3. The Onstar upgrade caused the problem, to which the only current solution is to remove the PAL module from the vehicle. If you don't, the battery will be dead in a few hours.
4. When you remove the PAL module, you will lose XM completely as well, so that is hardly an acceptable solution.
What GM should do at an absolute minimum is to send out a Technical Bulletin to every Corvette owner in Canada that this Onstar Upgrade WILL cause the PAL to fail, thereby warning them of the consequences. For those owners without a PAL, they can ignore the warning. For those owners with a PAL, they can choose not to upgrade. But to not warn Canadian Vette owners of this problem is going to cause a lot of grief and anger when they find out the problem like you did. I would suggest you stress that issue with your GM contact when you communicate again.
Ray
01-02-2016, 01:42 AM
#18
I just bought an 09Z a couple of days ago which had an iPod connection already added to the car. I didn't know what kind because it didn't seem to work. I also didn't have the XM bands available to select on the nav.
Long story short, after I got the car home I found the GM PAL box in the passenger foot well, but the wire harness wasn't plugged in. I plugged it back in, but the box just cycles and within a couple hours, the battery barely had enough juice to start the car. It also sounded like the nav unit fan (or something that sounds like it) was still running. I unplugged the PAL for now. The car is a US car.
Does anyone know if disabling Onstar by unplugging the J1, J2, and J3 plugs will resolve the issue? I don't plan on activating Onstar and would prefer to have the XM and iPod connections working.
Long story short, after I got the car home I found the GM PAL box in the passenger foot well, but the wire harness wasn't plugged in. I plugged it back in, but the box just cycles and within a couple hours, the battery barely had enough juice to start the car. It also sounded like the nav unit fan (or something that sounds like it) was still running. I unplugged the PAL for now. The car is a US car.
Does anyone know if disabling Onstar by unplugging the J1, J2, and J3 plugs will resolve the issue? I don't plan on activating Onstar and would prefer to have the XM and iPod connections working.
Last edited by philadd; 01-02-2016 at 01:42 AM.
01-02-2016, 06:11 AM
#19
Your VCIM should be either up behind the glove box or under the passenger seat.
So either here
Or its here instead.
Hence in the 05, it was installed in the front side of the rear passenger cuby on the other side of the plastic, was moved to the under the seat in the 06 Z since the battery was placed in the rear cubby, then found it way up behind the front passenger glove box in later cars for a final place to mount it instead.
You can unplug the connectors for to the VCIM, but will need to jump the GM lan bus connectors through the connector, or the car will not start. The GM lan bus wires are the light tan wires on the black connector that have to be jumped out. So pieces of paper clip to make the jumpers and installed, then use electrical tape to tape over the jumpers so they don't ground out against anything.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ompletely.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...al-tranny.html
So either here
Or its here instead.
Hence in the 05, it was installed in the front side of the rear passenger cuby on the other side of the plastic, was moved to the under the seat in the 06 Z since the battery was placed in the rear cubby, then found it way up behind the front passenger glove box in later cars for a final place to mount it instead.
You can unplug the connectors for to the VCIM, but will need to jump the GM lan bus connectors through the connector, or the car will not start. The GM lan bus wires are the light tan wires on the black connector that have to be jumped out. So pieces of paper clip to make the jumpers and installed, then use electrical tape to tape over the jumpers so they don't ground out against anything.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ompletely.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...al-tranny.html
Last edited by Dano523; 01-02-2016 at 07:07 PM.
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philadd (01-05-2016)
01-02-2016, 09:20 AM
#20
The VCIM in my convertible is mounted in side the right rear storage compartment in the rear of the trunk. You have to peel back the carpet along the edge of the compartment to find it.