Senna1994

Interesting article regarding the Corvette by Kevin Wilson from Autoweek. I happen to agree with the author on some of his comments and suggest that the C6 be on time.
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=08545802 :boxing

AP

I agree with him too...

LymanSS

I'm glad to contradict the statistics, by having bought an 02 Z06 at the ripe age of 21. And I assure you, I've done my part to spread the enthusiasm to all the young people I know. I never turn down a request for a ride. If you think that young people don't like corvettes, You'd be stunned how many of my little brothers' highschool friends think the car is just about the coolest thing on wheels. And among my peers, it's the undisputed definition of what an "affordable, near-super-car" should be. I think the addition of the Z06 to the Corvette lineup has done so much for the Corvette's image as a true sports car that real people can afford, that the concerns voiced in this article will be invalid in not too long.

Scott


[Modified by LymanSS, 3:37 PM 8/6/2002]

Senna1994

Scott, I sure hope that is the case, I had my first new Corvette (1986) at the age of 21 as well, I just hope that the Corvette image and myth are not reserved for those of us over 35. That is why I hope GM does there best work on the next generation car even if the profit would be less. This is a Halo car and deserves nothing but the best, just as the NSX is for Honda and does not make them any money, I hope that GM never forgets what the Corvette Brand means to Chevrolet and GM. :D

AP

I am young too (20) ... has my first used Vette at 18 ... but I think that the average aged owner is around 40 ... this forum is not an accurate cross section, we seem to be on the young side ... but the average is probably aorund 40

timscronin

Gray or Stupid. Enjoyed the article about the C6 Corvette and how only the old people drive the new generation. Maybe the young and stupid would pay more for a Porsche or NSX which it can perform with any day for thousands less, is more comfortable, and by the way get better gas mileage. As cool as the Viper is, after riding in one, I would need a 2nd car I could really drive. As far as the 20's somethings they can have the Kraut cars and the NSX, weren't these the same guys that brought us dot com's (Oh, that would be dot dead). There is a reason the Corvette is 50, most of it's competitor's will be lucky to make 10

BuckyThreadkiller

I think the forum is a very accurate cross section. There are old vette guys and young. I wanted a vette all my life but for some reason I always knew I'd be 40 before it graced the garage. That's how old all the guys I knew who drove corvettes were. And IMO it isn't bnecause of the cost of the car - it's the insurance rape that keeps the under 25 crowd out of vettes. By the time you can swing the State Farm deal you're married and off to sedan and minivan land.

If you're seventeen year old kid who wants a Corvette you'd better be prepared to double the payment to pay the insurance. Not quite the same deal on an integra or a souped up Civic.

Senna1994

Good Point regarding insurance. As far as speaking about German Cars or the NSX, have you ever driven those cars to make that assesment? Just like the C5 they are very refined and excellent cars for there market. I am sure comparing them to the corvette and insinuating the owners are crooks is a little rough, its like the Euro Snob who looks at the Corvette owner as a redneck. Whatever happened to having an appreciation of cars for what they are instead of who drives them?

AP

You point about it being a good cross section might be true ... but as a whole, I think that the average age of a member here is between 22-35 ... while it is a large range ... it is probably accurate..

Jinx

GM/Chevy has figured it out. Notice all the print ads and billboards and prominent inclusion of Corvette in TV ads?

It's marketing. Plain and simple.

Sure, Corvette gets frequent attention in car magazines, and it always does well for itself. But aside from C5's launch, and C4's launch before it, what Corvette ads pop into your head? Anyone? It's all in the last year, isn't it?

It wasn't in product development that Chevy fell asleep, it was in marketing. For even a car as good as Corvette needs someone to stir up demand.

People under 40 aspire to BMWs and Porsches. Because they're german? No, because they advertise. Day in, day out, year in, year out, whether they have an exciting new product or not, they are hammering an image into our brains and associating their brand with that image.

BMW is The Ultimate Driving Machine.
Porsche: There Is No Substitute.

We all know these things. What do we know of Corvette? I'm not saying Corvette needs a tagline, but it needs an image. Some people out there would be surprised that GM still makes Corvettes.

Twenty-somethings don't aspire to Corvettes because Corvette never occurs to them. Nobody is telling them they should dream of owning a Corvette -- nobody except their weird car-mag-geek friend, anyway. No one on television (Steve Sanders of 90210 excepted) is waxing poetic the ideals of freedom, success, virility, power, and sex appeal. We're not seeing Corvettes carving canyons, ripping up racetracks, or serving as vessels of Friday night fun.

And girls don't read car magazines.

.Jinx


[Modified by Jinx, 4:21 PM 8/6/2002]

JeffMc

Hmm.

- JeffMc (First Vette at 29)

SJ

I agree with some of the article's comments, but here are some guesses and observations:

1. The others, like BMW or Porsche, appeal to younger folks who "may" be less RAH-RAH-OOM-PAH-PAH about the good old U.S. of A.
2. There is only one Corvette, many Porsche's and BMW's - the more expensive of the latter which are probably being driven by folks as old as Corvette drivers.
3. I'm with Jinx - GM's Corvette marketing is non-existent, but that is because it's harder to amortize the marketing buck on a Corvette alone, which is only loosely associated with GM's broad offereings, than it is for BMW who will touch all ranges of BMW buyers with a single model ad since no BMW is a cheap pick-up or a Saturn, or something else heterogeneous in terms of vehicle segments - always sporty luxury.
4. I've talked to some Corvette lovers who would buy a Lamborghini or other sleek, low slung exotic if they had hordes of money, but not being millionaires, the Corvette nicely fills the need on a "budget". No BMW 5 series is going to substitute a Lamborghini. It's impressive that the Corvette can. Hot/cool looks and speed count!
5. Corvettes are perceived as less reliable and Consumer Reports don't lie - they tell it like it is. There is plenty of debate about quality, but the BMW and Porsche image is better, closer to Japanese, and thus more appealing to the younger crowd.
6. I've seen a few demographic studies that don't place Corvette owners in the highest IQ range - kinda in the middle - maybe that is supposed to correlate with the quality perception preference of the smarter preferring imports, etc. I don't know.
7. Given everything that GM does "wroing", it sells plenty of Corvettes. Differentiation is probably the most important marketing trick and GM wins hands down in that department.
8. There is a balancing act for every car and for those aiming at small niches like the Vette or Porsche, a flood in their segment would change the pricing, warranty, buyer perception, and other complex dynamics of business. Financial management is a dicey art/science. Change is bad, other than gradual improvements, in sales, quality, etc. I don't expect ever to see Corvette commercials on T.V.


[Modified by SJ, 7:27 PM 8/6/2002]

PHAT CHANCE

I think I'd have to disagree with those who think young people don't like vettes. It's like music or movies, everyone just has different tastes, regardless of age.

I bought my third and current vette at 22. I had a '77 at 20, a '92 at 21 and now the C5. I've had it for almost three years and love it.

I just kept getting a newer one as I could afford them. I like all kinds of cars, bmws, supras, porsches, vipers... etc..etc... but for the money, there is nothing better than the vette. I can drive it everyday and it hauls butt. Enough said :)

Senna1994

Jinx, as usual perfect observation regarding the marketing aspect. Also my everyday car is a "5" series BMW and I also own a Ferrari F355, but I still love Corvettes, I still plan on purchasing a C6 as well. As long as GM gives us a world class car I will buy it, even better that it is American. Ferrari does there advertising on the racetrack in F1, BMW same but also in the print and commercials on TV. When have you ever seen a Corvette ad on TV?

edv2122

21 when I purchased my 01 vert. 22 when I purchased my 03 Z. I have always love Corvettes and most of my peers would give the right arm to own one. The Corvette mystique is not lost on us 20 somethings. ;)

qs01coupe

Well GM is doing something right. They sell every C5 they can make and they raise the price 2 or 3 times a year. How many NSX's are sold each year 200? I do think a lot of younger people are not as familiar with the Corvette as with the more trendy imports. That makes it fun explaining it to them at the track ;)

Bwright

I am not sure I agree with much of what the Autoweek writer had to say. Corvette has always appealed to a wide cross section of people. Younger folk did not really cotton to the C4 because it really was not that great a car when compared to its competition in 1989-1993. Japanese sports cars like the 300ZX and Supra showed that terrific performance did not have to come with ill-fitting body panels, poor paint jobs, a squeak and rattle interior which was difficult to get in and out of and questionable build quality. Having read numerous comparison and stand alone tests of the C4 over a ten year period from 1985-1995 the one recurring word I found in almost every evaluation was "crude". In 1995 I went to buy a used Gen III RX7 but it did not check out mechanically. So in 1996 I went for a new twin-turbo Supra but was told that the car was about to be discontinued and the twin-turbo was no longer being offered in New York.

I had just about given up and resigned myself to a used Supra when one day in 1997 a C5 pulled onto the highway in front of me. I will never forget it. My initial reaction was shock. The long, low, wide, big-hipped apparition that filled the lane not ten feet ahead must be some new type of Ferrari. I caught the name on the fat rump just before it roared and disappeared into the distance with impossible speed and a sound that left goosebumps. It was several seconds before I could close my mouth.

Visual effect is half the battle and the C5 nailed it. If GM understands that you cannot allow even a good shape to age too long on the vine then they will avoid the fate of the 300ZX and Lexus SC400. Sports car aficionados love new and exciting shapes. The C4 did indeed hang out too long. As for price, well, what price greatness? I think the Autoweek writer does not comprehend the economic boom that has left this country with 2.5 million millionaires, many of whom are quite young. Many of the C5s I see on the road are being driven by young people of means who are drawn to the car's power, presence and style. Most of the compliments I have received about this car have come from teenagers and kids. Demand for the C5 has stunned GM as much as the outlandish success of GM's Denali and Cadillac's Escalade trucks, the latter especially among the young and high-profile.

The Autoweek writer's assertion that young buyers would skip S2000s and Z3s for a Vette if its image were more youthful is laughable. Check the average age of a Ferrari buyer. Does he think buyers of less expensive cars are skipping Ferarri because the cars have an old guy image? They don't buy Corvettes because many cannot afford them. Young people stopped thinking about the Vette when the Viper and NSX came out? Enthusiasts are always in thrall to the newest and freshest. But today the NSX is on life support. Has been for years. The Corvette is 50 years old and at 35,000+ units per year easily crushes the 200 unit per year NSX underfoot. No one really talks about the NSX now do they.

Marketing and advertising? Great and desirable cars do not need this. Powered by mystique, legend, past achievements and the strength of their current model(s) they move through sales charts unfettered by the things that constrain lessers cars. When was the last time you saw an ad for Ferrari, Lamborghini or Aston Martin? Think they have sales trouble? Know how many C5 TV ads were necessary for the current record setting sales pace? Guess how many ads it will take to sell a good-looking high performance C6. The only ads you really see now for the C5 are print ads justifiably chest thumping their continued top scores in the prestigious JD Power quality evaluations or the occassional splash that the C5R has scored again in some prestigious race.

I bought my C5 at age 28. I never aspired to one. It blew me away on sight and sound. It reinforced this over the years with bulletproof quality and blistering performance to back up its awesome looks. That sells cars. Marketing and advertising will not sell something undesirable or unreliable. Good looks and quality sell themselves to anyone, anytime.

Mako

That guy is stupid and his article is irrelevant. Make a great car and people of all ages will buy it, $$$ permitting. Same with Porsche and Viper.

The new C6 will still not be an entry-level sports car. The new Viper will not be one either.

The important thing is to build a new C6 that is responsive to what the public wants and is a leader in the performance game (at least one model/option of the C6 anyway)--not a distant follower to the Viper. Time to be a leader GM!


[Modified by Mako, 11:57 PM 8/6/2002]

Jinx

Bwright, you are correct that Ferraris and Lamborghinis and other cars that are effectively unattainable by 99% of the population do not need advertising. They sell on mystique.

Corvette has a mystique too. And there are those who respond to it and aspire to own one. I certainly did.

But because it is far more attainable, it is also more familiar as a real car that real people drive -- maybe your dad's boss, or the guy who comes to sell you that solar water heater and finally gives you the free steak knives after two hours. It's common enough (at tens of thousands of cars per year for the past thirty years) that people are close to a real experience with it, and uncommon enough that many of those experiences are dated. That paradox feeds the midlife-crisis image, it fills heads with perceptions of poor quality or dated engineering, and it leaves a lot of ****-poor ratty-looking redneck Vettes on the road. (A twenty year old Ferrari still costs a fortune to operate; a twenty year old Vette does not.)

People respect the Corvette's performance, but there's a lot of sgreat guying that goes with it.

GM could never advertise Corvette again, and they'll still get buyers. They got 50,000 buyers in 1979 with an eleven-year-old smog-choked ripple-bodied squeak-and-rattle machine. (No offense.)

But without advertising, it will take another decade for Corvette to gain mindshare and respect among the general public.

Advertising can replace the dated, tarnished memories of real experiences in people's heads with sanitized, romanticized images. That helps Corvette, and it helps GM.

My own experience, both before and after buying a Corvette, is that the car's stature as a performance machine is not well understood, and the car is thought of as an anachronism -- "yeah, it looks cool and it's pretty good I guess, but you could do way better."

If I had a nickel for every local youth walking by who asked me "what kind of car is that?" as I'm washing it in the driveway, and for every friend or coworker or associate who gives me a quizzical look when I tell them I've got a Corvette, well... I'd have a good head start on that C6 down payment :)

There are certain folks who get it -- the IT field is chock full of them -- but by and large people in my neck of the woods do not aspire to the Corvette. It's a bit of a blue-collar joke. Professional intellectual types aspire to touring cars, and by that I mean BMWs. Whatever you bought, if it ain't a BMW there's something not quite right about you. Okay, a Lexus or Mercedes or luxury-SUV they can understand, but "I have a Corvette" puts you into a weird area. I am continually amazed at the level of ignorance of what a marvel Corvette is today. "Man, I'd hate to pay your gas bill." (It's less than yours, Mr. Explorer.) "My brother had one of those about ten years ago -- the top wouldn't stop leaking." (Um, that's not one of these.) "That thing go as fast as an M3?" (Don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.) The aspersions of its past continue to tarnish the crossed-flags emblem.

I think it's great that there are young people out there who think Corvette is da bomb. But I haven't met any of them in person. I have met plenty of young people for whom Corvette is the last $50,000 image machine they'd think about. M3? Boxster? Luxury SUV of the moment? Corvette shouldn't be an afterthought. And all too often it is.

Corvette needs to go beyond the car guys. It would benefit greatly if non-car-guys thought it was cool. And marketing tells people what's cool.

GM needs more from Corvette than to sell out every year. They need it to generate interest and respect for the corporation's ability to build good cars. Now that there's a glimmer of hope that they might actually build some good cars, GM needs to capitalize on the strength of Corvette's present to stoke the fires of its future -- and the future of GM as a whole.

And with the recent spate of Corvettes in advertising, and C6 coming after only seven years of C5 production, it looks like GM is stepping up.

.Jinx


[Modified by Jinx, 10:55 PM 8/6/2002]

PJRACING57

I'll contribute to beating the Statistic. I got my 01 Z06 when I was 25.

As for the article, I agree with in some respects and disagree with it in others. But won't go there since it's been well covered by previous posts.