question about corvette as a supercar
01-01-2016, 02:24 AM
#81
Melting Slicks
Up until recently I would have to agree the Corvette hasn't qualified as a 'super car'; however, the reports like this might reflect it has started to break that barrier: http://www.therichest.com/luxury/aut...2015/?view=all 
01-01-2016, 02:24 AM
#82
I guess I'm out of step with the majority but I consider the term "Supercar" to be centered around performance. Any car that has the performance to beat a benchmark supercar would also be a supercar. It's also a moving target. As time goes on the requirements to be a supercar go up. I think the higher performance Vette can qualify.
The term exotic car has a lot more to it than just performance. I thinks Vettes miss out here for many of the reason called out in previous posts.
The term exotic car has a lot more to it than just performance. I thinks Vettes miss out here for many of the reason called out in previous posts.
Last edited by a striper; 01-01-2016 at 02:26 AM. Reason: spellink
01-01-2016, 08:06 AM
#83
Up until recently I would have to agree the Corvette hasn't qualified as a 'super car'; however, the reports like this might reflect it has started to break that barrier: http://www.therichest.com/luxury/aut...2015/?view=all
A super car is made from exotic material not found in a standard type cars, like titanium and carbon fiber, is on the edge of technology such as fully active aerodynamics and fully active suspension, and made on a much smaller production runs since there is just not that many buyers that have the money in the first place.
So the vet has way too much plastic used on it, the tech on the car is to old, and just too many produced/the price tag too low to even be considered a supercar.
01-01-2016, 08:34 AM
#84
Burning Brakes
I guess I'm out of step with the majority but I consider the term "Supercar" to be centered around performance. Any car that has the performance to beat a benchmark supercar would also be a supercar. It's also a moving target. As time goes on the requirements to be a supercar go up. I think the higher performance Vette can qualify.
The term exotic car has a lot more to it than just performance. I thinks Vettes miss out here for many of the reason called out in previous posts.
The term exotic car has a lot more to it than just performance. I thinks Vettes miss out here for many of the reason called out in previous posts.
I've always thought this way too. I love corvettes and i also love the fact that they are not super in the traditional sense. The day they become a true super car will most likely be the day i won't be able to afford one
01-01-2016, 01:08 PM
#87
Pro
I don't know....
My '10 ZR1 supposedly can do a bit over 200, pulls over 1.25g's on the pad, gets decent mileage, beats the pants off many "supercars), and repairs are not astronomical. And it looks pretty damn good. To me that is one super car.
(Oh and it only cost less than $3k to give it a full GMPP for the next 36k miles)
My '10 ZR1 supposedly can do a bit over 200, pulls over 1.25g's on the pad, gets decent mileage, beats the pants off many "supercars), and repairs are not astronomical. And it looks pretty damn good. To me that is one super car.
(Oh and it only cost less than $3k to give it a full GMPP for the next 36k miles)
01-01-2016, 07:38 PM
#88
Race Director
Semantics.
I think it is obvious that certain Corvette models (starting back in the '50's -- '57 Fuelie, anyone?) have been supercars, capable of running with pretty much any contemporary sports car regardless of price.
None, however, have been exotics. Pretty awesome when you think about it...
I think it is obvious that certain Corvette models (starting back in the '50's -- '57 Fuelie, anyone?) have been supercars, capable of running with pretty much any contemporary sports car regardless of price.
None, however, have been exotics. Pretty awesome when you think about it...
01-03-2016, 03:58 AM
#89
Burning Brakes
I would consider the very limited street edition C6RS Pratt and Miller Corvette to be supercar status. I believe they made a total of seven. Rare and exclusive. I've talked to a few Ferrari and Lamborgini owners. They do respect the Corvettes performance. Maybe not as a supercar, but they certainly respect it.
01-03-2016, 05:07 AM
#90
Le Mans Master
Not enough top end speed, nor down force for grip on the vets to go up against a super car.
Hence even the ZR1 can't keep up with a R8-V10 around a mid speed road course corners, much less a high speed track. Up against a Enzo/Bugatti Black Bess, the ZR1 would be lapped in a matter of mins instead. Also, keep in mind that the 0-60 times are a second faster on these super cars as well.
Bottom line, the Vet is a good value per dollar sports car, but super car it is not.
Hence even the ZR1 can't keep up with a R8-V10 around a mid speed road course corners, much less a high speed track. Up against a Enzo/Bugatti Black Bess, the ZR1 would be lapped in a matter of mins instead. Also, keep in mind that the 0-60 times are a second faster on these super cars as well.
Bottom line, the Vet is a good value per dollar sports car, but super car it is not.
Laguna Seca......................Nurburgring
Audi R8 V10 - 1:38.7.............7.44.xx
C6 ZR1 - 1:33.7....................7.19.68
C6 Z06/Z07 - 1:34.43...........7.22.68
Ferrari Enzo - N/A.................7.25.21
01-03-2016, 06:36 AM
#91
Trying to compare any lap times of different models at the Nurburgring is a joke.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
01-03-2016, 06:15 PM
#92
Burning Brakes
Trying to compare any lap times of different models at the Nurburgring is a joke.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
2014 Overall Results - VIR LL
TESTED ON THE SAME DAY, SAME CONDITIONS LOL
Chevrolet Corvette Stingray
4.1-mile Road
Course, Lap Time
Min:SEC/MPH
2:53.8/84.9
Audi R8 V-10 Plus
4.1-mile Road
Course, Lap Time
Min:SEC/MPH
2:57.5/83.2
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2014-feature
And for ref:
All time C&D Lap Times
The Vettes are such a joke. Just disgusting...
01-03-2016, 06:22 PM
#93
Burning Brakes
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...ites/71865642/
Also, 2k15 results:
http://m.caranddriver.com/features/l...d-more-feature
Imagine Target trumping Saks Fifth Avenue. Timex outshining Rolex. Chevy beating Lamborghini.
Actually, that last one should come as no surprise. The Chevrolet Corvette has added to its status as the world’s most affordable supercar as it emerged the king of the 2015 Car and Driver Lightning Lap competition at Virginia International Raceway. It outran such thoroughbreds as the $353,115 McLaren 650S Spider, $274,120 Lamborghini Huracan and $163,000 Porsche 911 GT3.
Actually, that last one should come as no surprise. The Chevrolet Corvette has added to its status as the world’s most affordable supercar as it emerged the king of the 2015 Car and Driver Lightning Lap competition at Virginia International Raceway. It outran such thoroughbreds as the $353,115 McLaren 650S Spider, $274,120 Lamborghini Huracan and $163,000 Porsche 911 GT3.
http://m.caranddriver.com/features/l...d-more-feature
Last edited by KnightmareCS; 01-03-2016 at 06:23 PM.
01-03-2016, 10:27 PM
#94
Totally disagree. Corvettes are not supercars. They've got the same performance (and have since the late 80s) as an entry level supercar, but they don't have the exclusivity of them. They make tons and tons of Corvettes, whereas Ferrari will only build like 7000 cars in a year.
Corvettes are fast, and faster than what some people would consider supercars. Then again, what is considered a supercar tends to be a matter of perspective. Where I grew up in South Florida, a Corvette was nothing special, it was just another coupe. A supercar in South Florida is totally different than up here in Hickory. Up here, my '92 is looked at by a lot of people as a supercar.
Personally, Even the new C7Z or C6ZR1 is just a fast Corvette. It's like a GT-R, a really fast sports car. But it's common, and doesn't come from a brand with any real prestige to it.
Corvettes are fast, and faster than what some people would consider supercars. Then again, what is considered a supercar tends to be a matter of perspective. Where I grew up in South Florida, a Corvette was nothing special, it was just another coupe. A supercar in South Florida is totally different than up here in Hickory. Up here, my '92 is looked at by a lot of people as a supercar.
Personally, Even the new C7Z or C6ZR1 is just a fast Corvette. It's like a GT-R, a really fast sports car. But it's common, and doesn't come from a brand with any real prestige to it.
X 2I agree with your previous agreement !!
Gary
01-03-2016, 11:05 PM
#95
Le Mans Master
In deference to all others, THE ABOVE is the correct answer. Few would consider a Mclaren M6BGT a supercar, even though it is among the fastest in the world. It is a racecar, not a supercar. Supercars can do multiple things...they have incredible top end speed, amazing acceleration, outstanding cornering, comfort for two, have curb appeal that get looks even from 80-year-old ladies, and can be driven coast to coast. The C7Z, if it proves to be as reliable as it should be, will be a Supercar, IMO.
01-04-2016, 09:56 AM
#96
Le Mans Master
Trying to compare any lap times of different models at the Nurburgring is a joke.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
As far as Willow Springs goes, which track are you referring to? Big Willow or Streets of Willow? Because they are very different tracks.
Lastly, any retort about the Audi?
01-04-2016, 10:34 AM
#97
Trying to compare any lap times of different models at the Nurburgring is a joke.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
Some are flying laps, other a stop start laps, some the car is so tweaked from floor room models its a joke, and then you have how much of the track was actually used for the timed event. Hell, the GT-R set a low number for the ring, but has yet to be duplicated by anyone on the long course with a production model car.
Trust is, your better off with a set flying lap at Willow springs with a show room model car (not the track prep version that the manufacturers race team pre-sets and hauls to the track for the mag guys to throw around), since you are talking same distance laps on production cars of how they left the show room floor and enough turns and short distances between the corners to factor in how well the car handles.
Hence forget F1 type tracks, since this is where it's all about HP for way to many long straight runs, and not so much about handling for a production class car instead.
Note, here on a F1 long straights tracks, the zr1 does well for a lap or two, but heat soak kicks in from the TVS-2300, and it's slower and slower each consecutive lap from the heat soak instead.
Also to add, the Enzo at speed has close to close to 1700lbs of down force at around 186mph, while the ZR1 has lift at all speeds instead.
So forget the straights, and in the tech windy sections of a production type class track like willow springs, the ZR1 is just a spec in the rear view mirror of the Enzo that is getting smaller and smaller each corner. Add in that the Enzo comes factory running R compound race tires from factory, and production against production with the Z running Super cups instead, GM is bring a knife to a Gun fight.
01-04-2016, 11:09 AM
#98
Pro
IMO, brand only has partially to do with it. I never considered the 308 or 328 Ferrari a supercar just b/c it was a Ferrari. Conversely, just b/c a C& or C6ZR1 Vette is Chevy, shouldn't eliminate it from consideration.
01-04-2016, 11:47 AM
#99
Burning Brakes
I don't consider a Corvette a super car either. But it would seem that it shouldn't really matter what course any such comparisons are run on as any "True" super car should out perform a Corvette no matter the layout of said course. And inquiring minds want to know....just what is a "Flying Lap" ??
So even though each are considered a lap time per se, the flying lap will always be a faster lap time with the given advantage of not being started from a dead stop!
In addition, the track a car is tested on does determine how it will fair against other cars. That is because if a track is very small with a lot of tight turns and no high speed straights, then a lighter car with less hp can post equally good numbers or better.
Example, a Miata can post better lap times than a Vette in many autocross tracks because they are so tight.
Go to Willow Springs or track with straights long enough to achieve high speeds with enough hp, and the Vette leaves the Miata in the dust, because it can more than make up for slower corner speeds with a much faster straight speed.
If you have a track with a lot of long straights and not many tight corners, the high horsepower cars dominate without having to have high corner speeds.
With the many track layouts, a track can bias an outcome if it doesn't give equal opportunity in turns and straights. Hope that makes sense!
Last edited by db2012gs; 01-04-2016 at 12:05 PM.
01-04-2016, 02:32 PM
#100
A "flying lap" is not timed from a stop, instead the time is started when you cross the starting line from a previous lap while traveling at speed. Hence you will post a better lap time. From a stop is only the first lap, and every lap after that will be a flying lap.
So even though each are considered a lap time per se, the flying lap will always be a faster lap time with the given advantage of not being started from a dead stop!
In addition, the track a car is tested on does determine how it will fair against other cars. That is because if a track is very small with a lot of tight turns and no high speed straights, then a lighter car with less hp can post equally good numbers or better.
Example, a Miata can post better lap times than a Vette in many autocross tracks because they are so tight.
Go to Willow Springs or track with straights long enough to achieve high speeds with enough hp, and the Vette leaves the Miata in the dust, because it can more than make up for slower corner speeds with a much faster straight speed.
If you have a track with a lot of long straights and not many tight corners, the high horsepower cars dominate without having to have high corner speeds.
With the many track layouts, a track can bias an outcome if it doesn't give equal opportunity in turns and straights. Hope that makes sense!
So even though each are considered a lap time per se, the flying lap will always be a faster lap time with the given advantage of not being started from a dead stop!
In addition, the track a car is tested on does determine how it will fair against other cars. That is because if a track is very small with a lot of tight turns and no high speed straights, then a lighter car with less hp can post equally good numbers or better.
Example, a Miata can post better lap times than a Vette in many autocross tracks because they are so tight.
Go to Willow Springs or track with straights long enough to achieve high speeds with enough hp, and the Vette leaves the Miata in the dust, because it can more than make up for slower corner speeds with a much faster straight speed.
If you have a track with a lot of long straights and not many tight corners, the high horsepower cars dominate without having to have high corner speeds.
With the many track layouts, a track can bias an outcome if it doesn't give equal opportunity in turns and straights. Hope that makes sense!