CA C6, Cam, no smog, how do i sell
11-11-2014, 09:25 AM
#1
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CA C6, Cam, no smog, how do i sell
I have a C6 with headers, cam, fast intake, etc. it is registered in a smog exempt county where you only need a smog cert when you transfer title. Can i sell out of state. It looks like i still need a smog cert. Any Ideas?
Thanks.
Jason
Thanks.
Jason
11-11-2014, 12:26 PM
#2
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I guess if you sell to another smog-exempt state or county, it shouldn't be a problem. Gotta say tho, I've never heard of such a county and surely didn't think one existed in "pollution-free" California. For that reason, I'd say, yes you have to get a smog cert. on it which might mean changing out the cam to normal one and tuning it for stock. I'm sure others will comment. You might also post this question in C6 Tech section.
11-11-2014, 02:36 PM
#3
Safety Car
If you didn't get/keep the original parts, it will cost a lot. Technically you can't buy used catalysts in this state since 2008, but in reality, if you did procure some low mileage stockers from somebody else who did mods- it would work out and look the part. The cam swap is a **** though.
11-11-2014, 02:38 PM
#4
Safety Car
There are quite a few areas actually. There just isn't enough people per square mile and enough shops to run the tests. Basically the rural areas with good air quality are only required to do the smog check on transfer of ownership, not every two years like in the populated areas.
11-11-2014, 03:32 PM
#5
Team Owner
There are quite a few areas actually. There just isn't enough people per square mile and enough shops to run the tests. Basically the rural areas with good air quality are only required to do the smog check on transfer of ownership, not every two years like in the populated areas.
It's not widely known, but it's true. These counties coincide nicely with the list of counties where a resident can apply for and get a concealed weapon permit...and this is something that is generally thought to be impossible in California. (unless you are a movie star, then it's easy)
Last edited by cclive; 11-11-2014 at 03:38 PM.
11-11-2014, 03:36 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
The cam is kind of a gray-area that you *might* be able to skate on, depending on locale.
However, it is FEDERAL LAW that you cannot remove/deactivate the cats, and that overrules *anything* the county/state might have to say. Doesn't matter if you have the king of CA himself telling you it is OK. Its still against Federal law and takes precedence over state.
I don't know anything about smog certs in CA, but I'd take Mike100's advice and find a way at least to get some cats back on there pre-sale.
If it would become an issue with the new owner (regardless of which state he is in), you *could* be financially liable for the cost of restoring everything back to stock to pass emissions (not to mention possible federal penalties). And if you've priced out a set of brand new GM cats, believe me, you don't want that.
11-11-2014, 05:58 PM
#7
Racer
You can sell it out of state to someone/somewhere where they don't prohibit mods like yours, just disclose it to the buyer.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
11-11-2014, 06:43 PM
#8
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You can sell it out of state to someone/somewhere where they don't prohibit mods like yours, just disclose it to the buyer.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
11-11-2014, 06:56 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Consider registering it non-op and having the out-of-state buyer sign a piece of paper stating that they're purchasing it for parts.
11-11-2014, 08:28 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Unless I'm mistaken, you can sell it anywhere as long as it is sold "as is" with the understanding that it may not be able to be registered until any necessary modifications are made to pass smog.
11-11-2014, 08:58 PM
#11
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11-11-2014, 09:20 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
There are some exceptions made for transfers between family members and other corner cases, but I don't think it's otherwise possible to sell a modern car to another Californian without taking on this responsibility. However, surely there must be a way to call it a race car, register it non-op, and transfer it to someone else without a smog certificate. How else are street-derived racing cars bought and sold?
Last edited by torquetube; 11-11-2014 at 09:24 PM.
11-12-2014, 08:47 AM
#13
Instructor
You can sell it out of state to someone/somewhere where they don't prohibit mods like yours, just disclose it to the buyer.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
There's no more tail pipe tests for C6's (or anything built 2000 and up), just a code scan and visual inspection. The visual inspection is the part to worry about.
11-12-2014, 10:56 AM
#14
Le Mans Master
"Disclosure"???
I don't know about you, OP, but I would think long and hard about creating and signing a legal document (i.e., a bill of sale) wherein I admit IN WRITING that I willingly and knowingly violated federal law.
(and of course, if the disclosure is not in writing, it doesnt exist anyway, so you're back to square 1)
You must do what you feel is right, of course...
Cheers
-Kent
I don't know about you, OP, but I would think long and hard about creating and signing a legal document (i.e., a bill of sale) wherein I admit IN WRITING that I willingly and knowingly violated federal law.
(and of course, if the disclosure is not in writing, it doesnt exist anyway, so you're back to square 1)
You must do what you feel is right, of course...
Cheers
-Kent
Last edited by Kent1999; 11-12-2014 at 11:31 AM.
11-12-2014, 12:18 PM
#15
Safety Car
The Dept of Transportation is more than happy to let the states enforce emissions laws on automobiles. They only really get involved with interstate commerce, heavy trucks, farm diesel violators etc. You will not get knicked for missing stuff.
California can not tell you what you can or can't sell- say in Arizona or Nevada. Anyhow, selling a car as-is shouldn't be illegal if the buyer is aware that it would be on them to bring it up to standards- it is the used car places that do illegal smogs on clunkers and pass them down to unsuspecting buyers that the law is mainly made for. I have bought my last couple of used cars from people with no smog cert for a discount. I did the legwork later. Both cars passed- people just won't spend the $50 I guess.
California can not tell you what you can or can't sell- say in Arizona or Nevada. Anyhow, selling a car as-is shouldn't be illegal if the buyer is aware that it would be on them to bring it up to standards- it is the used car places that do illegal smogs on clunkers and pass them down to unsuspecting buyers that the law is mainly made for. I have bought my last couple of used cars from people with no smog cert for a discount. I did the legwork later. Both cars passed- people just won't spend the $50 I guess.
11-12-2014, 04:12 PM
#17
Instructor
"Disclosure"???
I don't know about you, OP, but I would think long and hard about creating and signing a legal document (i.e., a bill of sale) wherein I admit IN WRITING that I willingly and knowingly violated federal law.
(and of course, if the disclosure is not in writing, it doesnt exist anyway, so you're back to square 1)
You must do what you feel is right, of course...
Cheers
-Kent
I don't know about you, OP, but I would think long and hard about creating and signing a legal document (i.e., a bill of sale) wherein I admit IN WRITING that I willingly and knowingly violated federal law.
(and of course, if the disclosure is not in writing, it doesnt exist anyway, so you're back to square 1)
You must do what you feel is right, of course...
Cheers
-Kent
Thanks!
11-13-2014, 01:06 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
PROHIBITED ACTS
SEC. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited—
motor vehicle engine from subsection (a), upon such terms and
conditions as he may find necessary for the purpose of research,
investigations, studies, demonstrations, or training, or for reasons
of national security.
SEC. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited—
(1) in the case of a manufacturer of new motor vehicles or new
motor vehicle engines for distribution in commerce, the sale,
or the offering for sale, or the introduction, or delivery for
introduction, into commerce, or (in the case of any person,
except as provided by regulation of the Administrator), the
importation into the United States, of any new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine, manufactured after the effective date
of regulations under this part which are applicable to such
vehicle or engine unless such vehicle or engine is covered by a
certificate of conformity issued (and in effect) under regulations
prescribed under this part or part C in the case of clean-fuel
vehicles (except as provided in subsection (b));
(2)(A) for any person to fail or refuse to permit access to or
copying of records or to fail to make reports or provide information
required under section 208;
or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title
prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for
any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such
device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser; or
vehicle engine subject to standards prescribed under section 202
or Part C—
this title or any regulations under section 218, 219, or part
C. No action with respect to any element of design referred to
in paragraph (3) (including any adjustment or alteration of such
element) shall be treated as a prohibited act under such paragraph
(3) if such action is in accordance with section 215. Nothing
in paragraph (3) shall be construed to require the use of
manufacturer parts in maintaining or repairing any motor vehicle
or motor vehicle engine. For the purposes of the preceding
sentence, the term ‘‘manufacturer parts’’ means, with respect
to a motor vehicle engine, parts produced or sold by the
manufacturer of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. No
action with respect to any device or element of design referred
to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under
that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair
or replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and
temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the
device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure,
and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning
of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action
with respect to any device or element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that
paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a
motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined
in this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable
standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if
in the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by
rule by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced
upon completion of the conversion procedure and such action
results in proper functioning of the device or element when the
motor vehicle operates on conventional fuel.
(b)(1) The Administrator may exempt any new motor vehicle or newmotor vehicle engines for distribution in commerce, the sale,
or the offering for sale, or the introduction, or delivery for
introduction, into commerce, or (in the case of any person,
except as provided by regulation of the Administrator), the
importation into the United States, of any new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine, manufactured after the effective date
of regulations under this part which are applicable to such
vehicle or engine unless such vehicle or engine is covered by a
certificate of conformity issued (and in effect) under regulations
prescribed under this part or part C in the case of clean-fuel
vehicles (except as provided in subsection (b));
(2)(A) for any person to fail or refuse to permit access to or
copying of records or to fail to make reports or provide information
required under section 208;
(B) for any person to fail or refuse to permit entry, testing
or inspection authorized under section 206(c) or section 208;
(C) for any person to fail or refuse to perform tests, or
have tests performed as required under section 208;
(D) for any manufacturer to fail to make information available
as provided by regulation under section 202(m)(5);
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any deviceor inspection authorized under section 206(c) or section 208;
(C) for any person to fail or refuse to perform tests, or
have tests performed as required under section 208;
(D) for any manufacturer to fail to make information available
as provided by regulation under section 202(m)(5);
or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this title
prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for
any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such
device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell,
or install, any part or component intended for use with, or
as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where
a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass,
defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design
installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine
in compliance with regulations under this title, and where
the person knows or should know that such part or component
is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put
to such use; or
(4) for any manufacturer of a new motor vehicle or new motoror install, any part or component intended for use with, or
as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where
a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass,
defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design
installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine
in compliance with regulations under this title, and where
the person knows or should know that such part or component
is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put
to such use; or
vehicle engine subject to standards prescribed under section 202
or Part C—
(A) to sell or lease any such vehicle or engine unless such
manufacturer has complied with (i) the requirements of section
207 (a) and (b) with respect to such vehicle or engine, and
unless a label or tag is affixed to such vehicle or engine
in accordance with section 207(c)(3), or (ii) the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles
unless the manufacturer has complied with the corresponding
requirements of part C 1,
(B) to fail or refuse to comply with the requirements of
section 207 (c) or (e), or the corresponding requirements of
part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles 1
(C) except as provided in subsection (c)(3) of section 207
and the corresponding requirements of part C in the case of
clean fuel vehicles, to provide directly or indirectly in any
communication to the ultimate purchaser or any subsequent
purchaser that the coverage of any warranty under this Act
is conditioned upon use of any part, component, or system
manufactured by such manufacturer or any person acting for
such manufacturer or under his control, or conditioned upon
service performed by any such person, or
(D) to fail or refuse to comply with the terms and conditions
of the warranty under section 207 (a) or (b) or the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles
with respect to any vehicle; or
(5) for any person to violate section 218, 219, or part C ofmanufacturer has complied with (i) the requirements of section
207 (a) and (b) with respect to such vehicle or engine, and
unless a label or tag is affixed to such vehicle or engine
in accordance with section 207(c)(3), or (ii) the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles
unless the manufacturer has complied with the corresponding
requirements of part C 1,
(B) to fail or refuse to comply with the requirements of
section 207 (c) or (e), or the corresponding requirements of
part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles 1
(C) except as provided in subsection (c)(3) of section 207
and the corresponding requirements of part C in the case of
clean fuel vehicles, to provide directly or indirectly in any
communication to the ultimate purchaser or any subsequent
purchaser that the coverage of any warranty under this Act
is conditioned upon use of any part, component, or system
manufactured by such manufacturer or any person acting for
such manufacturer or under his control, or conditioned upon
service performed by any such person, or
(D) to fail or refuse to comply with the terms and conditions
of the warranty under section 207 (a) or (b) or the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel vehicles
with respect to any vehicle; or
this title or any regulations under section 218, 219, or part
C. No action with respect to any element of design referred to
in paragraph (3) (including any adjustment or alteration of such
element) shall be treated as a prohibited act under such paragraph
(3) if such action is in accordance with section 215. Nothing
in paragraph (3) shall be construed to require the use of
manufacturer parts in maintaining or repairing any motor vehicle
or motor vehicle engine. For the purposes of the preceding
sentence, the term ‘‘manufacturer parts’’ means, with respect
to a motor vehicle engine, parts produced or sold by the
manufacturer of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. No
action with respect to any device or element of design referred
to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under
that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair
or replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and
temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the
device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure,
and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning
of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action
with respect to any device or element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that
paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a
motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined
in this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable
standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if
in the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by
rule by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced
upon completion of the conversion procedure and such action
results in proper functioning of the device or element when the
motor vehicle operates on conventional fuel.
motor vehicle engine from subsection (a), upon such terms and
conditions as he may find necessary for the purpose of research,
investigations, studies, demonstrations, or training, or for reasons
of national security.
(2) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine offered for
importation or imported by any person in violation of subsection
(a) shall be refused admission into the United States, but the
Secretary of the Treasury and the Administrator may, by joint
regulation, provide for deferring final determination as to
admission and authorizing the delivery of such a motor vehicle
or engine offered for import to the owner or consignee thereof
upon such terms and conditions (including the furnishing of a
bond) as may appear to them appropriate to insure that any such
motor vehicle or engine will be brought into conformity with the
standards, requirements, and limitations applicable to it under
this part. The Secretary of the Treasury shall, if a motor vehicle
or engine is finally refused admission under this paragraph,
cause disposition thereof in accordance with the customs laws
unless it is exported, under regulations prescribed by such
Secretary, within ninety days of the date of notice of such
refusal or such additional time as may be permitted pursuant to
such regulations, except that disposition in accordance with the
customs laws may not be made in such manner as may result,
directly or indirectly, in the sale, to the ultimate consumer,
of a new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine that fails
to comply with applicable standards of the Administrator under
this part.
(3) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine intended
solely for export, and so labeled or tagged on the outside of
the container and on the vehicle or engine itself, shall be
subject to the provisions of subsection (a), except that if the
country which is to receive such vehicle or engine has emission
standards which differ from the standards prescribed under section
202, then such vehicle or engine shall comply with the standards
of such country which is to receive such vehicle or engine.
[42 U.S.C. 7522]
importation or imported by any person in violation of subsection
(a) shall be refused admission into the United States, but the
Secretary of the Treasury and the Administrator may, by joint
regulation, provide for deferring final determination as to
admission and authorizing the delivery of such a motor vehicle
or engine offered for import to the owner or consignee thereof
upon such terms and conditions (including the furnishing of a
bond) as may appear to them appropriate to insure that any such
motor vehicle or engine will be brought into conformity with the
standards, requirements, and limitations applicable to it under
this part. The Secretary of the Treasury shall, if a motor vehicle
or engine is finally refused admission under this paragraph,
cause disposition thereof in accordance with the customs laws
unless it is exported, under regulations prescribed by such
Secretary, within ninety days of the date of notice of such
refusal or such additional time as may be permitted pursuant to
such regulations, except that disposition in accordance with the
customs laws may not be made in such manner as may result,
directly or indirectly, in the sale, to the ultimate consumer,
of a new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine that fails
to comply with applicable standards of the Administrator under
this part.
(3) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine intended
solely for export, and so labeled or tagged on the outside of
the container and on the vehicle or engine itself, shall be
subject to the provisions of subsection (a), except that if the
country which is to receive such vehicle or engine has emission
standards which differ from the standards prescribed under section
202, then such vehicle or engine shall comply with the standards
of such country which is to receive such vehicle or engine.
11-13-2014, 09:50 AM
#19
Pro
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If it were me, I'd advertise it with all the modifications. If someone wants to buy it, tell them it may not pass smog and write "as is" on the bill of sale. Generally dealers are held to the stricter laws regarding car sales, not individuals that aren't acting in their normal course of business. If the buyer is aware that they might not pass and may have to make a change, then your conscience should be clear.
11-13-2014, 10:06 AM
#20
Instructor