tacos

I've been having some trouble with my clutch hydraulics for a little while now, and it's gotten worse in the last few days. I've been searching the forum, but nobody seems to have the exact symptoms I've been experiencing.

It started about 6 months ago when I would try to shift quickly with the engine at high RPMs. 1->2 would grind if i tried to shift fast. Sometimes 2->3 would do it as well. I started noticing the top half of the clutch travel was very light, and it would engage pretty close to the floor. But, after a bit of driving the clutch travel would firm up a bit and the "bite" would happen about half way up.

More recently, the pedal is not returning all the way for the first 15 minutes of driving. (and sometimes after 30 minutes of it.) I had to pull the pedal up a couple inches for the cruise control to come on when I was on the interstate once. Also, it's been hard to get into reverse lately.

And just this week, when I went to leave my friend's house, the car would not go into gear. When I tried to force it a bit the car rolled slightly forwards.

I've been doing the ranger method whenever I can see the fluid is discolored through the reservoir, (every few months) but haven't seen any improvement.

So, do I replace the master, the slave, or just flush the fluid from the slave? I don't want to spend any money I don't have to, but I also really don't want to go through all the trouble of getting to the slave for a proper flush and then discover I've got to take the car halfway apart again. My 'vette is my only car, so I can't afford to have it out of service for too long, either.

dev1360

I would start with bleeding the system. Get under the car and bleed the clutch. The ranger method can introduce air into the system if you pull the fluid too low. That also only helps keep clean fluid in it.

If the bleeding doesn't work, I'd ponder the slave or the master.

heli-vette

The engagement point gets higher as the clutch disc wears . There is a return pedal spring , that is a common failure but isn't that noticeable .

AV8TOR536

I have emptied the resorvoir several times while doing the "Ranger" method and never had any air get into the system.

tacos

Yes, but it doesn't move back and forth every time you get in the car. My engagement point starts at the floor, and moves to about halfway up the travel after the car warms up.

RicK T

Probably the master is failing. But, if the pedal isn't coming all the way up, the compensation port isn't getting exposed to allow the fluid to equalize for wear which could, over time, make things worse than they are. If you're just going to throw parts at it, the master would be the first thing I'd recommend. Otherwise try to actually diagnose the problem with a mechanic.

cclive

I would agree with Rick, the master is easy to replace and far less expensive than replacing the slave. It's a tough problem as one of them is having a problem but it's hard to tell which. I was thinking that one of them is heating up and the heat of expansion is causing it to start working properly. Which one??? I don't know how you would tell, other than replacing the easy, cheap one first and seeing if it cures the problem. The engagement point should be pretty close to the top of the pedal travel. Obviously when it is nearer the bottom, it means that fluid is leaking past the piston in one of the two cylinders. It's unlikely that both went bad at the same time.

tacos

Guess I'll try the master first, at least then I don't have to tear the car as far apart that way. And if I stick with the stock unit, it's only $90.

Now I know everyone's crazy about the Tick master, but is is worth paying 3+ times as much? Does it last 3 times as long? Does it work 3 times as well as the OEM unit? I'm not planning on a clutch upgrade, so I don't need MOAR FLOWING POWA!!-- I just need the car to run again, and preferably not have to replace the same damn part twice. (At this rate I'll never get around to fixing the HUD mirror!)

P.S. With only 2 parts possibly broken, and how relatively cheap they are to replace, paying a mechanic doesn't make much sense here. Why spend money to get told which to replace, when replacing both (if the first one doesn't fix the issue) would only cost marginally more?

dev1360

Bleeding is free and could solve the problem. Air would have to be introduced somewhere, have you boiled the fluid?

tacos

Is there any way to tell without bleeding it? Everything under the hood is stock so far, so I can't imagine I've put THAT much heat in to the fluid. (right?) And the problem has been getting worse, so that leads me to believe something is breaking more and more. Plus my fluid level has never fallen in the slightest between ranger protocols, so there's no external leak--which means no air is getting in. So unless I've boiled the fluid somehow with the stock headers...

rmm82

Go with the Tick clutch master cylinder. You can adjust the engage point to where ever you like it. It's a high quality product!

cclive

The slave is not cheap to replace. The labor will be expensive and will likely require a mechanic unless you are very good at wrenching.

tacos

If the mechanic told me it was the slave, I'd still have to pay him for the diagnostics. If I replace the master and it still doesn't drive right, I KNOW it's the slave. So either it's time to get the car completely apart for that slave, or at least I saved on diagnostics!

Replacing the slave doesn't look all that hard.... Just really, really time consuming.

tacos

Ordered the Tick, worst case scenario I take advantage of their return policy.

rmm82

Great, I'm sure you'll like it. When you put the two units side by side (factory vs Tick), you'll see why it can move more fluid. The instructions say to remove the drivers side wheel well panel for installation. But I'd remove the windshield washer container too. At this point you'll have the leverage to twist the unit into place. Maybe you'll have hands like a vise without it, but I didn't. Once removed, I was able to get a grip on the unit. And take your time. Don't be pressured into doing it in a few hours, if you're like me, you'll get seriously frustrated.

tacos

If you're not getting frustrated, you don't want it enough. Thanks for the advice, might save a wrench from getting thrown.

I was looking at the pictures for both side by side when I made the decision; the tick seems like a much more substantial unit. I'm amazed by how tiny the OEM master is. Tick's warranty helped the decision too. It may be $325, but I'll only have to spend it once. Hopefully I'll only have to replace the master this once.

tacos

Ugh, 2 week wait until they're back in stock. Great.

Dano523

Selling point of the Tick unit is the ID of the cylinder is greater than the stock unit (will push more fluid per stroke) and the fact that the master cylinder is made out of metal, and not plastic like the factory unit that scorns and cause it to wear out. So when the Tick is adjusted correctly, the first 3/4 to 1" of pedal is pretty much dead pedal that take getting used to.


But what most don't get, and fail to order is the solid one piece fluid line.

The factory fluid line has three orifice restrictors in it, and cause problem when the fluid gets heavy with clutch dust to cause the pedal to hand to the floor. The Tick connector type line removes two of them, while the third one is at the slave cylinder connection and take the solid line to remove it. Also, since its the slave cylinder that causes the clutch dust in the lines, when installing the solid line (yes, the drive line has to be pulled to get to the slave cylinder), you install the remote bleeder line as well.

tacos

I'll probably order the long line when the slave goes out, but I'm hoping I can get the speed bleeder installed without dropping the entire driveline for now. Just the fact that the fluid is getting flushed should prevent the restrictions from being an issue for quite a while, and I plan to flush fairly regularly with the speed bleeder to prevent any black oatmeal fluid. from reoccurring.

Why did Chevrolet let a moron design such a critical part for their best car in the first place?

Bill Dearborn

Although not easy to do bleeding the clutch is probably the first thing you should do. You have to drop the exhaust and the tunnel plate but you aren't disassembling the drive train. If it works you have the cheapest solution. If it doesn't work you can go with an upgraded master and then bleed before reinstalling the plate and exhaust. If that doesn't work you already have some of the work done to get the drive train dropped. You need the car for transportation but the way it is going now it may not be available when you need it. The process above can get your car back on the road sooner if you are lucky but it won't take any longer to get back on the road if the first two options don't work and you need to drop the drive train.

Bill