2006 Corvette C6 - Harmonic Balancer Wobble - Squeak
04-14-2014, 01:06 PM
#1
2006 Corvette C6 - Harmonic Balancer Wobble - Squeak
The Harmonic Balancer on my 2006 Corvette (1G1YY26U965123785 & 22,600 miles) is wobbling, creating a constant squeaking noise under the hood. I was not aware of this issue, and apparently from reading online this is a very common issue with C5's and C6's. My question is, should I not drive the vehicle at all until I get this fixed? I went to GM and they quoted me $730 for balancer, belts, seal & bolt and noted that there could be a bigger underlying problem but won't know until they get into the job. I went online and purchased the parts myself at 'Nalley Buick GMC Brunswick' for much cheaper: (GM Labour is $1000 plus tax)
1. BOLT. Engine Crankshaft Pulley and Balancer 12557840 $3.95
2. SEAL. Engine Front Cover. Engine Front Cover & Crankshaft Seal. 12585673 $17.31
3. BALANCER. Engine Crankshaft And Camshaft Balancer 12635652 $172.10
4. BELT. Drive 12636225 $17.18
5. BELT. Drive 12636226 $30.91
The guy there claims these are authentic GM parts and not aftermarket. My next question is, provided I get these parts installed, and everything is corrected, what is the probability of this issue coming up again in the future? Are people experiencing the same issue again after they fix it?
BOLT ISSUE? OR FAILED RUBBER FLEXIBLE COUPLING?
Also, i'm trying to determine what issue is applicable to my car:
1) Was the TSB (#05-06-01-001A) released for early 2005 cars (the first ~11,000) only applicable to those vehicles? I realize it was released in 2005 so obviously it was for that year vehicle, however the fix seems still be to be applicable to the newer models as well, same fix? Because it appears 2006/2007 vehicles are experiencing similar issues. Is the difference on the 2005 models that the 'Diamond Embedded Washer' was not installed? but was installed on cars after? It appears on the 2005 models, bolts were backing off or coming completely out causing severe damage. OR....
2) Is it a failed rubber flexible coupling that is part of the harmonic balancer that only causes the pulley to wobble and the main belt to chirp? I have heard of user 'WarDriver' on here say when the rubber coupling failed on his, the balancer moved backwards and started eating into the oil pan and the timing chain cover. $2500 to replace everything. Are there any indicators by the sound under the hood that I may have a more serious problem then just replacing the balancer?
I guess I just would like to know, by replacing the balancer, is that just a temporary fix? It's occurring in so many of these models, I wonder what is replacing it going to do other then provide a temporary fix. There is clearly a underlying issue on why this is occurring, are the new balancers better quality maybe?
Should this installer key the crank? pin it or something? I have read a method called the 'dutchman' which involves drilling a hole on the parting line between the dampener and the crank snout so that half the diameter of the hole is in the dampener hub, and half in the snout. Then a round pin is driven into the hole, securely locking the two parts together. There are also pinning kits that require a radial hole be drilled through the dampener hub and into the crank snout. Then a radial pin is driven in to lock the parts together. Either way works, but the dutchman method is stronger against shear forces.
Rubber isolated harmonic balancers are known to rotate at times in some applications apparently. The AC belt is usually the first one to make noise as it has the weakest tensioner. Excessive runout in the balancer magnifies the noise when cold. I have heard of BRAND NEW balancers that have had wobble as well. The key seems to be accurate tension of the belts and alignment with the other pulleys. I have read Rule of thumb is 1/32 inch runout maximum.
GOODYEAR GATORBACK BELTS - (MAIN DRIVE BELT) 4060798 and (A/C BELT) 4040410
How much wobble is to much wobble too? I hear of people installing goodyear gatorback belts and the balancers wobble reduces significantly and stops squeaking. I have these ordered as well. Goodyear Gatorback install by another member claims the following and he had a wobble in the balancer as well:
'Based on the Tech Manual "chirping" diagnosis procedure #3, it is recommended to remove both belts and operate the engine for 30-40 seconds to determine if the chirp is eliminated. So, prior to removing the OEM belts I "scored" the face of the outer and inner mechanisms and put a dab of white paint on the rubber bushing. Then I measured the runout of the outer mechanism "balancer / pulley" at 800 RPM idle. The runout was appx. 2 mm while the inner mechanism was zero. And the "chirping" sound was still present.
I then removed the belts, started the engine and repeated the measurement with a result of appx. 4.5 mm runout on the outer mechanism and again zero on the inner. The "chirping" was eliminated completely. This was an increase of 2.5 mm's of "wobble" just by removing the OEM belts and letting the Crankshaft Balancer spin free at 800 RPM.
I then installed the Goodyear Gatorback belts which are much beefier belts than the OEM and fit much snugger than the OEM belts which had 32,500 miles on them. This is probably due to wear and stretching over the years.
Again, I fired-up the engine checked the dash for a CEL or SES light and listened for the "chirping". Thankfully it had gone. Then I examined the pulleys and belts to make sure they were seated properly and while doing so, noticed a decrease in the balancer "wobble". I measured it again and the "wobble" had been reduced to appx. 1 mm only. And almost looked like a solid crankshaft balancer.
This got me thinking about the design and assembly of the balancer and what effects tightly vs. loosely fitting belts would have on the bonding and tensile strength of the rubber bushing between the rubber to metal mechanisms.
My hypothesis is that as the OEM belts age, they stretch slowly which progressively lessens the pull / stiffness on the Crankshaft Balancer assembly. This allows the outer mechanism to float or shift on the rubber bushing due to centrifugal / torsional forces causing the rubber to soften / flex and the metal to rubber bonding to weaken from constant movement thus allowing the balancer to "wobble" which as it worsens, causes the chirping belts which eventually leads us to discover the "wobbling" balancer.
In conclusion, If the OEM belts were replaced before they stretched to the point of allowing the balancer to shift on it's rubber bushing, would this prevent the ultimate failure of the Crankshaft Balancer Assembly.'
Is the problem caused by a combination of belt stretching (length and width) and balancer rubber aging. I also wonder if the belt develops "soft spots" which allow the belt to twist in certain spots along its length. This aging is probably worsened by winter storage since the balancer is in a fixed position with tension applied in a single direction for long periods of time. Frequent belt changes and the removal of belt tension during storage may prevent this from happening in the future maybe?
Any advice at all is appreciated. I'm going to get the dealer to get this work completed as soon as parts arrive.
HARMONIC BALANCER PURPOSE - INFORMATION ONLY
Though lots of people use the term, this part is not a "harmonic balancer". It is a "harmonic damper"...big difference. If we're going to have a technical discussion of this device, we need to, first, understand it's purpose and function. The primary purpose of a harmonic damper has nothing at all to do with engine imbalance or balance. Though some external balance engines use the damper rim for engine balance that is a secondary purpose. The primary purpose of a harmonic damper is to damp harmonics generated in the crankshaft by the engine's firing impulses. Without a hamonic damper, the crankshaft tends to act like a torsion bar. Firing impulses applied to the crankshaft tend to "wind" this torsion bar, which responds by unwinding then re-winding in the opposite direction. Usually, these torsional forces are damped naturally, but at certain engine speeds the impulses from the cylinder firing are in synch (or in harmony) with the crank's natural resonant frequency. At those speeds harmonic vibrations will damage the crankshaft.
In an automotive engine there is little control over operation in those rpm ranges and there will be annoying vibration as the engine is operated through such rpm ranges and usually, there are durability problems if the engine is operated for any length of time in those ranges. The harmonic damper damps those harmonics and eliminates objectionable and potentially damaging vibration. Now, because the damper rotates at engine speed, it must be balanced so as not to create a vibration of its own. Some external balance engines use an out-of-balance damper to balance a rotating assembly which would otherwise be out of balance, but again, the primary purpose of a harmonic damper is to damp harmonics in the crankshaft set-up by firing impulses not to dynamically balance the rotating assembly. As for the wobbling balancer discussed by the OP..replace it.
1. BOLT. Engine Crankshaft Pulley and Balancer 12557840 $3.95
2. SEAL. Engine Front Cover. Engine Front Cover & Crankshaft Seal. 12585673 $17.31
3. BALANCER. Engine Crankshaft And Camshaft Balancer 12635652 $172.10
4. BELT. Drive 12636225 $17.18
5. BELT. Drive 12636226 $30.91
The guy there claims these are authentic GM parts and not aftermarket. My next question is, provided I get these parts installed, and everything is corrected, what is the probability of this issue coming up again in the future? Are people experiencing the same issue again after they fix it?
BOLT ISSUE? OR FAILED RUBBER FLEXIBLE COUPLING?
Also, i'm trying to determine what issue is applicable to my car:
1) Was the TSB (#05-06-01-001A) released for early 2005 cars (the first ~11,000) only applicable to those vehicles? I realize it was released in 2005 so obviously it was for that year vehicle, however the fix seems still be to be applicable to the newer models as well, same fix? Because it appears 2006/2007 vehicles are experiencing similar issues. Is the difference on the 2005 models that the 'Diamond Embedded Washer' was not installed? but was installed on cars after? It appears on the 2005 models, bolts were backing off or coming completely out causing severe damage. OR....
2) Is it a failed rubber flexible coupling that is part of the harmonic balancer that only causes the pulley to wobble and the main belt to chirp? I have heard of user 'WarDriver' on here say when the rubber coupling failed on his, the balancer moved backwards and started eating into the oil pan and the timing chain cover. $2500 to replace everything. Are there any indicators by the sound under the hood that I may have a more serious problem then just replacing the balancer?
I guess I just would like to know, by replacing the balancer, is that just a temporary fix? It's occurring in so many of these models, I wonder what is replacing it going to do other then provide a temporary fix. There is clearly a underlying issue on why this is occurring, are the new balancers better quality maybe?
Should this installer key the crank? pin it or something? I have read a method called the 'dutchman' which involves drilling a hole on the parting line between the dampener and the crank snout so that half the diameter of the hole is in the dampener hub, and half in the snout. Then a round pin is driven into the hole, securely locking the two parts together. There are also pinning kits that require a radial hole be drilled through the dampener hub and into the crank snout. Then a radial pin is driven in to lock the parts together. Either way works, but the dutchman method is stronger against shear forces.
Rubber isolated harmonic balancers are known to rotate at times in some applications apparently. The AC belt is usually the first one to make noise as it has the weakest tensioner. Excessive runout in the balancer magnifies the noise when cold. I have heard of BRAND NEW balancers that have had wobble as well. The key seems to be accurate tension of the belts and alignment with the other pulleys. I have read Rule of thumb is 1/32 inch runout maximum.
GOODYEAR GATORBACK BELTS - (MAIN DRIVE BELT) 4060798 and (A/C BELT) 4040410
How much wobble is to much wobble too? I hear of people installing goodyear gatorback belts and the balancers wobble reduces significantly and stops squeaking. I have these ordered as well. Goodyear Gatorback install by another member claims the following and he had a wobble in the balancer as well:
'Based on the Tech Manual "chirping" diagnosis procedure #3, it is recommended to remove both belts and operate the engine for 30-40 seconds to determine if the chirp is eliminated. So, prior to removing the OEM belts I "scored" the face of the outer and inner mechanisms and put a dab of white paint on the rubber bushing. Then I measured the runout of the outer mechanism "balancer / pulley" at 800 RPM idle. The runout was appx. 2 mm while the inner mechanism was zero. And the "chirping" sound was still present.
I then removed the belts, started the engine and repeated the measurement with a result of appx. 4.5 mm runout on the outer mechanism and again zero on the inner. The "chirping" was eliminated completely. This was an increase of 2.5 mm's of "wobble" just by removing the OEM belts and letting the Crankshaft Balancer spin free at 800 RPM.
I then installed the Goodyear Gatorback belts which are much beefier belts than the OEM and fit much snugger than the OEM belts which had 32,500 miles on them. This is probably due to wear and stretching over the years.
Again, I fired-up the engine checked the dash for a CEL or SES light and listened for the "chirping". Thankfully it had gone. Then I examined the pulleys and belts to make sure they were seated properly and while doing so, noticed a decrease in the balancer "wobble". I measured it again and the "wobble" had been reduced to appx. 1 mm only. And almost looked like a solid crankshaft balancer.
This got me thinking about the design and assembly of the balancer and what effects tightly vs. loosely fitting belts would have on the bonding and tensile strength of the rubber bushing between the rubber to metal mechanisms.
My hypothesis is that as the OEM belts age, they stretch slowly which progressively lessens the pull / stiffness on the Crankshaft Balancer assembly. This allows the outer mechanism to float or shift on the rubber bushing due to centrifugal / torsional forces causing the rubber to soften / flex and the metal to rubber bonding to weaken from constant movement thus allowing the balancer to "wobble" which as it worsens, causes the chirping belts which eventually leads us to discover the "wobbling" balancer.
In conclusion, If the OEM belts were replaced before they stretched to the point of allowing the balancer to shift on it's rubber bushing, would this prevent the ultimate failure of the Crankshaft Balancer Assembly.'
Is the problem caused by a combination of belt stretching (length and width) and balancer rubber aging. I also wonder if the belt develops "soft spots" which allow the belt to twist in certain spots along its length. This aging is probably worsened by winter storage since the balancer is in a fixed position with tension applied in a single direction for long periods of time. Frequent belt changes and the removal of belt tension during storage may prevent this from happening in the future maybe?
Any advice at all is appreciated. I'm going to get the dealer to get this work completed as soon as parts arrive.
HARMONIC BALANCER PURPOSE - INFORMATION ONLY
Though lots of people use the term, this part is not a "harmonic balancer". It is a "harmonic damper"...big difference. If we're going to have a technical discussion of this device, we need to, first, understand it's purpose and function. The primary purpose of a harmonic damper has nothing at all to do with engine imbalance or balance. Though some external balance engines use the damper rim for engine balance that is a secondary purpose. The primary purpose of a harmonic damper is to damp harmonics generated in the crankshaft by the engine's firing impulses. Without a hamonic damper, the crankshaft tends to act like a torsion bar. Firing impulses applied to the crankshaft tend to "wind" this torsion bar, which responds by unwinding then re-winding in the opposite direction. Usually, these torsional forces are damped naturally, but at certain engine speeds the impulses from the cylinder firing are in synch (or in harmony) with the crank's natural resonant frequency. At those speeds harmonic vibrations will damage the crankshaft.
In an automotive engine there is little control over operation in those rpm ranges and there will be annoying vibration as the engine is operated through such rpm ranges and usually, there are durability problems if the engine is operated for any length of time in those ranges. The harmonic damper damps those harmonics and eliminates objectionable and potentially damaging vibration. Now, because the damper rotates at engine speed, it must be balanced so as not to create a vibration of its own. Some external balance engines use an out-of-balance damper to balance a rotating assembly which would otherwise be out of balance, but again, the primary purpose of a harmonic damper is to damp harmonics in the crankshaft set-up by firing impulses not to dynamically balance the rotating assembly. As for the wobbling balancer discussed by the OP..replace it.
Last edited by newfie709; 04-14-2014 at 01:46 PM.
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camaro427-69 (01-30-2018)
04-14-2014, 01:31 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
You saw all the threads yet you bought another GM balancer?
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
04-14-2014, 01:38 PM
#3
The New factory bolt is fine to use (its a one time use), but would better off with a ARP bolt instead.
Yes, replace the crank seal, even if the old one looks good still.
Send back the factory HB and Pick up a ATI HB instead. The problem that you are now having with the factory HB, will be the same problem that you will have down the road with the new one. The factory HB has a thin rubber section that the outer and center section are bonded to, and its the rubber/bonding agent that fails to cause the problem. On the ATI unit, the outer and inner sections are bolted together instead.
As for what I don't see on the list, is a HB installer tool, since you do not use the old or new bolt to install the new HB (too short and will not grab enough threads when you are bolt pressing on the new one.
As for changing the HB, steering rack is going to be in the way, as well as a few other items, so it's no picnic to change one out (read spend more time getting things out of the way and back in, then you will spend replacing the HB itself. Also, although not needed unless you are going to super charge, pining the new HB is not a bad idea (ATI sells a pinning kit for just this).
As for the TBS, it had to do with the bolt coming loose, so it was just replacing the bolt with a new bolt and washer and using Loctite to keep it in place as well (the HB was not replaced under the TBS).
As for a dealer or shop, might want to check around with some shops you trust to do the work instead. Gm goes by a fixed amount of time to change one out, while some shops have found the tricks to change them out in half the time GM quotes instead.
Yes, replace the crank seal, even if the old one looks good still.
Send back the factory HB and Pick up a ATI HB instead. The problem that you are now having with the factory HB, will be the same problem that you will have down the road with the new one. The factory HB has a thin rubber section that the outer and center section are bonded to, and its the rubber/bonding agent that fails to cause the problem. On the ATI unit, the outer and inner sections are bolted together instead.
As for what I don't see on the list, is a HB installer tool, since you do not use the old or new bolt to install the new HB (too short and will not grab enough threads when you are bolt pressing on the new one.
As for changing the HB, steering rack is going to be in the way, as well as a few other items, so it's no picnic to change one out (read spend more time getting things out of the way and back in, then you will spend replacing the HB itself. Also, although not needed unless you are going to super charge, pining the new HB is not a bad idea (ATI sells a pinning kit for just this).
As for the TBS, it had to do with the bolt coming loose, so it was just replacing the bolt with a new bolt and washer and using Loctite to keep it in place as well (the HB was not replaced under the TBS).
As for a dealer or shop, might want to check around with some shops you trust to do the work instead. Gm goes by a fixed amount of time to change one out, while some shops have found the tricks to change them out in half the time GM quotes instead.
04-14-2014, 01:39 PM
#4
Race Director
My advise would be to return that balancer you bought. It's the same one thats already on there and it WILL fail again. I had mine replaced with the same one in May 2012 under warranty. Today, 4k miles later, its wobbling again. I ordered a Power Bond PB1117SS. When it arrives my dealer will install it. The 05 TSB only applied to the bolt coming loose which they fixed by adding a different washer. Yes, it is the elastomer between the two rings that wears out causing the back and forth wobbling. If it's wobbling a new belt will not fix it.
04-14-2014, 01:40 PM
#5
SUBVETTE
You saw all the threads yet you bought another GM balancer?
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
Go with the ATI if you don't want to do the job again.
04-14-2014, 02:35 PM
#6
LOL... This balancer issue has been discussed more times than the possibility of life on another planet. All good suggestions, but an ATI balancer is $400 plus and a bit of over-kill unless you are gonna go racing. Summit has one that appears to be suitable for a replacement for about $200, but haven't gotten any feed back on how they may work. Has anyone used the Summit balancer...part # C-2501 I think. Also, if you put on an aftermarket balancer that has a key-way and you don't key it, then you better fill the key-way in the new balancer with some very high quality silicone sealer or you may run the risk of oil leaking down the key-way. It really depends on how long the key-way is and if it runs past the seal mating surface. The last thing one wants to do is go through all the hassel or the $$$$ of an R&R and have it leak. Mine is doing the wobble thing but my problem is I didn't know about it until I owned the car for about 3 years so I don't know if its gotten worse or not. I put on a Gatorbelt and it got rid of about 50% of the wobble, but I know that's only a Band-Aid. But at least getting rid of part of the wobble will still help with the stress on parts situation. Regardless....let us know how it all works out.
04-14-2014, 03:04 PM
#7
LOL... This balancer issue has been discussed more times than the possibility of life on another planet. All good suggestions, but an ATI balancer is $400 plus and a bit of over-kill unless you are gonna go racing. Summit has one that appears to be suitable for a replacement for about $200, but haven't gotten any feed back on how they may work. Has anyone used the Summit balancer...part # C-2501 I think. Also, if you put on an aftermarket balancer that has a key-way and you don't key it, then you better fill the key-way in the new balancer with some very high quality silicone sealer or you may run the risk of oil leaking down the key-way. It really depends on how long the key-way is and if it runs past the seal mating surface. The last thing one wants to do is go through all the hassel or the $$$$ of an R&R and have it leak. Mine is doing the wobble thing but my problem is I didn't know about it until I owned the car for about 3 years so I don't know if its gotten worse or not. I put on a Gatorbelt and it got rid of about 50% of the wobble, but I know that's only a Band-Aid. But at least getting rid of part of the wobble will still help with the stress on parts situation. Regardless....let us know how it all works out.
04-14-2014, 03:09 PM
#8
The New factory bolt is fine to use (its a one time use), but would better off with a ARP bolt instead.
Yes, replace the crank seal, even if the old one looks good still.
Send back the factory HB and Pick up a ATI HB instead. The problem that you are now having with the factory HB, will be the same problem that you will have down the road with the new one. The factory HB has a thin rubber section that the outer and center section are bonded to, and its the rubber/bonding agent that fails to cause the problem. On the ATI unit, the outer and inner sections are bolted together instead.
As for what I don't see on the list, is a HB installer tool, since you do not use the old or new bolt to install the new HB (too short and will not grab enough threads when you are bolt pressing on the new one.
As for changing the HB, steering rack is going to be in the way, as well as a few other items, so it's no picnic to change one out (read spend more time getting things out of the way and back in, then you will spend replacing the HB itself. Also, although not needed unless you are going to super charge, pining the new HB is not a bad idea (ATI sells a pinning kit for just this).
As for the TBS, it had to do with the bolt coming loose, so it was just replacing the bolt with a new bolt and washer and using Loctite to keep it in place as well (the HB was not replaced under the TBS).
As for a dealer or shop, might want to check around with some shops you trust to do the work instead. Gm goes by a fixed amount of time to change one out, while some shops have found the tricks to change them out in half the time GM quotes instead.
Yes, replace the crank seal, even if the old one looks good still.
Send back the factory HB and Pick up a ATI HB instead. The problem that you are now having with the factory HB, will be the same problem that you will have down the road with the new one. The factory HB has a thin rubber section that the outer and center section are bonded to, and its the rubber/bonding agent that fails to cause the problem. On the ATI unit, the outer and inner sections are bolted together instead.
As for what I don't see on the list, is a HB installer tool, since you do not use the old or new bolt to install the new HB (too short and will not grab enough threads when you are bolt pressing on the new one.
As for changing the HB, steering rack is going to be in the way, as well as a few other items, so it's no picnic to change one out (read spend more time getting things out of the way and back in, then you will spend replacing the HB itself. Also, although not needed unless you are going to super charge, pining the new HB is not a bad idea (ATI sells a pinning kit for just this).
As for the TBS, it had to do with the bolt coming loose, so it was just replacing the bolt with a new bolt and washer and using Loctite to keep it in place as well (the HB was not replaced under the TBS).
As for a dealer or shop, might want to check around with some shops you trust to do the work instead. Gm goes by a fixed amount of time to change one out, while some shops have found the tricks to change them out in half the time GM quotes instead.
1) ATI Harmonic Balancer
2) ARP Bolt
3) Replace Crank Seal
4) HB installer tool
5) ATI Pinning kit
Do you have part numbers for these by any chance? Also, will the gatorback belts be the better choice rather then getting stock ones?
04-14-2014, 03:12 PM
#9
You saw all the threads yet you bought another GM balancer?
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
Go get an ATI balancer and return or chuck the GM one you bought. There was a thread here that ATI was selling some blemished NIB balancers on Fleabay at substantial discount.
I would not go with another GM balancer unless you like paying again all the labor for the massive job for a part that should never fail in a million miles in the first place!
04-14-2014, 07:52 PM
#10
If the key-way runs the entire length of the inside diameter of the balancer then it could wind up being exposed to oil. And since there is no "Key" in the key-way that leaves a void. All depends on the balancer. I've personally never seen one that doesn't run the entire length of the unit, but I must admit that I haven't checked out any of the newer ones. Usually you put the key on the crank and then the balancer over the key and it slides on. Kinda hard to do that if the balancer key-way doesn't go all the way through. Guess if it doesn't then they expect one to put on the balancer and hope that the two slots are perfectly aligned which they would have to be to get the key inserted. Good luck with that one...LOL. Might make for an interesting dilemma if you ever have to pull it off again. Just something to think about
04-14-2014, 08:12 PM
#11
Race Director
I researched this key slot thing a bit and from what I've read there is no problem using a keyed balancer on a non keyed crank shaft. The seal is apparently on the crank, not the balancer. No oil leaks.
04-14-2014, 11:51 PM
#12
Ok thanks. I'm new to this forum and not a mechanic by any means. I just want to make sure I order the correct parts to get this job completed once the right way. If I order this ATI balancer, do I have to order a specific kinda seal, bolt, HB installer tool for the ATI balancer? Also would you recommend the pinning kit? do you think it's necessary? I'm not familiar with reliable online sources for getting parts as I haven't ordered any online before. I don't mind paying extra if the ATI balancer is going to guarantee no future issues. Do you know part numbers for these items by any chance?
04-15-2014, 12:15 AM
#13
Le Mans Master
I just took my 2007 with 27,000 miles to a local Corvette specialist. He recommended an ATI unit and they will machine a key. Very knowledgable and I feel good about the repair. They showed me pics of the stock HB and the ATI HB and explained why and what I was paying for. It may be overkill but it is also peace of mind. An extra $200 is a small price to pay in my opinion. Clearly a superior product. They quoted 8 hrs labor at $98 per hour plus the cost of the new HB. Total cost with a new belt is about $1100. Dropped it off in the morning and picked it up the next day.
04-15-2014, 12:59 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Anyone have a video of the sound this makes when "wobbling"? I have a ls3 G8 and i think this might be what is causing all the squeaking noise at cold idle.
04-15-2014, 01:46 AM
#15
If you dont plan on making crazy power the summit is a great option.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...ette/year/2006
Im currently on a powerbond with no issues, but mine is pinned because S/C
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2316&ppt=C0332
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...ette/year/2006
Im currently on a powerbond with no issues, but mine is pinned because S/C
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2316&ppt=C0332
04-15-2014, 03:24 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Luckily my 06 has never had that problem but with nearly 67,000 on it I'm kinda worried about taking it on a 4,000 mile trip this summer. Should I take my bike instead? Don't want to be hindered by something that (might) go out but going out on a multi state trip doesn't interest me either. Frikkin GM should be paying for all these! I guess there's never been a class action suit to force GM to pay up? Sure sounds like there's been enough failures to merit a lawsuit.
04-15-2014, 08:59 AM
#17
I just took my 2007 with 27,000 miles to a local Corvette specialist. He recommended an ATI unit and they will machine a key. Very knowledgable and I feel good about the repair. They showed me pics of the stock HB and the ATI HB and explained why and what I was paying for. It may be overkill but it is also peace of mind. An extra $200 is a small price to pay in my opinion. Clearly a superior product. They quoted 8 hrs labor at $98 per hour plus the cost of the new HB. Total cost with a new belt is about $1100. Dropped it off in the morning and picked it up the next day.
04-15-2014, 12:24 PM
#18
Safety Car
the stock GM Kent-Moore hb installation tool is all you need to install the ATI hb. I double keyed and double pinned mine when I installed mine with the ATI pinning kit.I have keyed and pinned several using both methods and prefer ATI's method.I never use rtv in keyways and have never had one leak.if you care to use rtv it cant hurt.use GM 12378190 sealant or equivelant in keyways.check my previous posts on ATI pinning.if using the GM balancer you never know when they may fail again.I have had them fail in as little as 4,000 miles.when GM dosent care to risk hb failures they use ATI hb's in their crate engines including LS engines
Last edited by irok; 04-15-2014 at 12:45 PM.
04-15-2014, 02:13 PM
#19
I just took my 2007 with 27,000 miles to a local Corvette specialist. He recommended an ATI unit and they will machine a key. Very knowledgable and I feel good about the repair. They showed me pics of the stock HB and the ATI HB and explained why and what I was paying for. It may be overkill but it is also peace of mind. An extra $200 is a small price to pay in my opinion. Clearly a superior product. They quoted 8 hrs labor at $98 per hour plus the cost of the new HB. Total cost with a new belt is about $1100. Dropped it off in the morning and picked it up the next day.
the stock GM Kent-Moore hb installation tool is all you need to install the ATI hb. I double keyed and double pinned mine when I installed mine with the ATI pinning kit.I have keyed and pinned several using both methods and prefer ATI's method.I never use rtv in keyways and have never had one leak.if you care to use rtv it cant hurt.use GM 12378190 sealant or equivelant in keyways.check my previous posts on ATI pinning.if using the GM balancer you never know when they may fail again.I have had them fail in as little as 4,000 miles.when GM dosent care to risk hb failures they use ATI hb's in their crate engines including LS engines
04-15-2014, 02:39 PM
#20
Well that's good news. But it does make me wonder why everyone suggest replacing the seal when doing this balancer R&R. I'm sure some may think that replacing the seal is always a good idea. But if the car has low miles then I ain't touching the seal. I'll use the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" theory when it comes to leaks, esp. on a low mileage not so old car.